recall advice please

[scary]

Hi I have a rescue dog called wilbur i think he is a beagle cross terrier he is 6 years old, ive had him since nov and we had attended and completed a good manners and recall training group and his behavour has much improved- he is really good on a open field and his recall is succesful 90% of the time. I also walk him in the new forest his recall is about 70% but he does stay pretty close by.
He always has a hot dog sausage as a reward and i also use a clicker and a whistle. We started using a longline which was really successful. He has been off the lead for about 2 mths and he had been really good. I am still recalling him about 20 times on the walk.

The problem i am having is at the field there are islands of trees that are over run with rabbits!! (GREAT FUN FOR HIM!!) like i said hes great with recall on open field but as soon as he spots a rabbit or the island hes off chasing them and wont come back- he completly ignores me!! (must be the beagle in him) today i lost him for 15 mins and had to dragg him out of a rabbit hole!!
my other worry is that the field is near some roads and he would probably chase a rabbit onto the road.

so.... any advice?
do i keep him on lead at all times when at the field
do i go back to long lining?
he does know leave but i ont think theres a hope in hell he would leave a rabbit!!

I appreciate that its going to be difficult and i may never stop him chasing rabbits as thats what he was born to do- but would hate him to get stuck down a rabbit hole or run over!!
many thanks sarah x

[Fundog]

Firstly, I just want to say that what you have accomplished so far is excellent-- well done to you!

And secondly, I also own hunting dogs-- one has actually had some training on wild birds-- so when I take her out to an area where I know there are quail, doves, partridge, etc., I have to keep her on a lead-- or she will go "hunting" and I will end up having to fight my way through thick brush to find her "on point." (not fun when I need to be somewhere else by a certain time)

Thirdly, how do you feel about allowing your dog some occasions to do what he was born to do? Go ahead and have a gander at this thread-- it makes for some fun reading, even if you decide "hunting" is not for you. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5680

Nettle will also have some good advice for you, for training your hunting dog to only "hunt" when you give consent. I myself have not yet been able to implement that useful little tool, so it's on a lead whenever hunting is not okay.

[Nettle]

I keep hunting dogs too. Mine are professionals and hunt rabbits for a living.

You will not stop your dog running after rabbits, so if the rabbits are close to a dangerous place like the road, your dog will have to be on a lead. My dogs are very obedient but I never take risks with them because no dog is 100% and it can take seconds for a terrible accident to happen.

Now we work with the art of the possible:

if you want your dog to have fun chasing rabbits, then those rabbits must be somewhere safe for dogs. And you will need someone's permission because the land does not belong to you, unless you live in a country where hunting is allowed to everybody in some places.

If your dog has a hunting instinct it would like to fulfil, you can both have fun with laying trails for him to follow, and with him chasing a toy on a flirt pole. We have some threads on this worth researching.

You have done very well to instil the obedience you have, but it is unrealistic to expect a hunting dog to ignore rabbits running about in front of him. It can be done IF the dog has other outlets for its hunting needs, but that is outside the scope of a pet dog forum.

[scary]

Hi fundog and nettle, thanks very much for your replies, unfortunalty there is no where we can take wilbur to go hunting. He has been on the lead the last week when were up the field, luckly he doenst mind being on the lead!!

thanks again

[Fundog]

Scary, where are you? Are you in the U.S.? Do you live in a busy metropolitan area, or is it somewhat agricultural/rural? If it is the latter, and if you live in the U.S., you may be relatively close to some public lands in your region-- yes, you would have to get in a truck or SUV and drive there on a Saturday, and perhaps even take a picnic, but it is often quite worth the trip. In the United States, "public lands" are controlled by the Bureau of Land Management. These lands are owned by the U.S. taxpayers-- that means you and me. There are rules for certain areas, as some places may be under a special conservation program (re-seeding vegetation after a wildfire, or reserve habitats for endangered species, etc.) But generally, these lands are open for hunting in season and with a license, camping, off-roading, hiking, and training/exercising dogs off lead. You need to be aware of fire dangers in certain regions and at certain times of the year, and which areas are considered "sensitive" and not good for certain activities, like ATVs and SUVs. To find out more about the public lands in your region, input a browser search using the phrase, "Public Lands, your county, your state." Or you can use "BLM, your county, your state." I hope that helps, and that you are able to find a whole new world out there to enjoy with Wilbur!

[Nettle]

Do you have anywhere apart from this field where you can take him, lay trails for him etc. ? We want to give him as much fun as hunting rabbits but not hunting rabbits - so you need to find a different place to walk him, if you can.

[scary]

Hi i live in the UK and as far as i am aware there isnt any public places i can take him!

i am after soem more advice on wilbur- we have been walking on a lead on the field and doing recall training on the lead
on the forest hes off the lead where occasionly he doesnt come back for a while/ignores me when he gets a stiff of a squirrel!!

do you think i should go back to recal training on the forest? (we still recall him back about a million times while walking and he is fine untill he sees a squirrel) or do i have to be realistic and realise hes probably never going to be perfect at coming back if he sees a squirrel/ rabbit??

[puppysaver]

I have a lab mix, we got him from a rescue.
The leave it command worked great for him, when he is hunting. We went to a farm for the first time and he started chasing chickens, when I said "leave it" he stopped. In our back field he likes to hunt, last week he found a turtle and pulled it out of the high grass, on the leave it command he dropped it.

We started with hot dogs, which he loves. I would put it on the ground and say leave it, if he went for it, I took it up and said no. He got so good with the hot dog, i could put it on one paw and say leave it and he would.
I would not wait untill he is chasing, you should be able to tell when he smells the rabbitts or is getting ready to take off, then use the leave it command.

This might help.

[Nettle]

A terrier is a way different proposition from a labrador when it comes to chasing wild animals because a labrador is bred to find and retrieve them but not chase them, and a terrier's job is to chase and catch. Except that this is a pet terrier and we don't want him to do that.

The forest off-lead is far too risky. It's like leaving you loose in a kitchen full of yummy food when you are hungry, and telling you to leave it! Leave-it is a very useful command and terriers should know it too, but it will not apply in the forest environment. That is setting the dog up to fail.

Only off-lead where it is safe, where you can see him and where there is little/no wildlife. Wildlife/hunting laws in UK are extreme, and you do not want to get into trouble.

Be interesting when you walk: play with him, toss food treats about for him to seek and find, call him in, put him on-lead, run a few steps and let him off again, so he knows being called is a good thing, not the end of his fun. Pay total attention to whatever he is doing and learn his body language, and if you think he is working up to running off, "change the subject" by playing with him, throwing a toy for him, putting the lead on etc. You are taller and can see further, so you keep a good look-out for those fuzzy brown things that skip about and are so tempting to chase.

[Mattie]

I go all over the country with my dogs, I am in the UK as well, my dogs all have good recalls but I wouldn't trust them 100% to come back if there was a rabbit, squirrel etc. When away from home I still clip a long line to a harness on my dogs for safety and security and in some places will have extending leads on them.

For me training recall is for the dog's life, just because it seems he has a good recall doesn't mean he won't go if there is something that he is really interested in. Every time I take my dogs out I am trying to improve their recall.

What I do find good is to play hide and seek with my dogs, they love it and it improves their recall.

[***Melissa***]

What I do find good is to play hide and seek with my dogs, they love it and it improves their recall.

I play hide n seek with mine too, and that really helps with their recall. Even when they are about, sniffing & running, they *always* keep an eye on me to see if I "disappeared".

[scary]

Hi thank for your replies.

like i said his recall is pretty good when there are no distractions, he gets lots of treats on a walk when he looks at me and when he comes back. he doenst really do toys on a walk- ive tried lots of things including squeaky toys and the rabbits and squirrels are more interesting for him!!

again i walk him on a flexi lead at the field but do u suggest i leave him on the lead at the forest as well? or just keep him on it at certain parts, particuallry the most wooded part! we tend to do the same walk most days as i have a limited lunch break¬! and if we go anywhere new he stays on a lead! its so difficult to know whats best for him! as he just goes into hunting mode as soon as he sees a squirrel and theres no chance of getting him back.

will try hide and seek with him

[Mattie]

Teaching a good recall with a flexi lead is virtually impossible, dogs can feel the tension on the lead and know it is on, for this you would be better with a long line, to a dog that feels like there is nothing there so he can run off if he wants, you know he can't but your dog doesn't. If he decides to go the look on their faces when they realise they can't is wonderful.

[Sarah83]

If he decides to go the look on their faces when they realise they can't is wonderful.

Sadly the feeling in your arm when an 80lb dog hits the end of 20 meter line at full speed because they saw a cat and took off after it isn't so wonderful. Nor was the feeling in my knees as they hit the ground, or my boobs as they followed. Thankfully he stopped so I was saved the indignity of being dragged along on my face. Can I ask how you prevent this Mattie? I have Rupe on a harness and generally he's very good on a long line but if he sees something to chase he's completely blind and deaf to everything else which is why he's on the long line in the first place.

[Labsrule]

Hi Sarah, beagles work off their noses, can you find a Tracking group near you? I live in the UK (not near you) but I know there are several clubs that are spread nationwide, this would be good fun for both you and your dog. Possibly you could do a search and find one not too far from you. Sue.