aggresive/resource guarding?

[sherrymyra]

My two year old female westie has, I think, a resource guarding issue. Tonight she had lost a toy under the dresser. As I was picking up something from the floor near the dresser she growled, lunged, and given the chance would have bitten me. I stepped back as she was coming at me. She randomly does this with toys, food dishes, and other random things. Most times she doesn't have a problem but you never know when it will happen. There is no rhyme or reason when/or what will cause her to react this way. The food dish may be an issue one time and the next she could care less about the food dish, etc. The other day she got on my bed, which she is not allowed because of guarding issues there. I told her to get off the bed and as she did she had a hissy fit of growling and chasing in circles. She seems to have an issue when she is told to do something she doesn't want to do. Then as I was picking up things from the floor of the bedroom she growled and lunged to bite me, like she was guarding the whole room from me.

I don't know how to go about changing this behavior. For now I try to avoid situations that result in the behavior but feel this is not a good solution.

I am desperate for help.

[***Melissa***]

Hi

I'm not an expert, and don't have similar issues with my dogs, so I really can't give advice on what you can do, but here's 2 links to threads about aggression - hopefully it will help a little

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6111
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5442

[emmabeth]

She does have a reason - its just not obvious to you.

Think about how you feel about your stuff - somedays I bet you are starving and really looking forwards to your dinner. Otherdays you are not so hungry and dinner isnt really high on your list of priorities.

She has a list of priorities and like you, they will change on a daily basis, whether its warm or cold, if shes tired or full of energy, or just on a whim..

When you say she objects to being told what to do - how are you telling her?

[sherrymyra]

Emmabeth thank you for responding to my post. I value your knowledge and any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

This is kind of long so bear with me.

I agree she has a reason. I just don't understand it. I'm trying. This is why I am asking for help.

I will give a brief description of her history and then more detail on the behaviors.

She has not always been like this. I am wondering if some of this behavior could be related to pain. At about a year of age she started growling when picked up and then when I put her down she would chase around in a circle growling. This came about rather quickly. A while back (probably about a year ago) she started hopping with her back legs instead of walking. I didn't think alot of it, but then about last October she was holding up her back leg. I took her to the vet and x-rays show that she has arthritis and maybe a degenerative disk in and around her spine/hip area. I had her to the vet again a few months or so later to ask if it’s possible that this behavior that has started, (or some of it) could be pain related and he said that if she was in pain she would not be chasing around in circles because that would just be causing her more pain. He said she has a behavior problem. Then again most of the time she is chasing around playing with my other westie or chasing squirrels or chasing her squeaker toy around. He did prescribe rymadyl for her and honestly I think it helps her settle down some or maybe that is my imagination. I haven't given it to her on a regular basis though.

I will try to further explain some of what I am seeing in her behavior.

When I want her off something I very nicely say get off the bed (or couch or whatever). I'm not yelling or using a gruff voice. She has a "tantrum" for lack of a better word. She growls and then gets off the bed and chases around in a circle growling. I do not touch her to remove her. She would bite I am sure.

During the night wakes up and chases around growling inside her crate. It's like she just jumps up and starts in. There isn't anything to wake her or cause her to startle. I yell out to her to lay down. Usually she does.

She also does the chasing in circles and growling when I have left the house. I can hear her when I am outside the door. I open the door and tell her to stop. I'm not sure this is something I need to correct.

She doesn't seem to be able to relax. Especially if she is really tired and laying down. Something like moving a hand or foot sets her off with chasing in circles and growling. Or just outright growling at times seeming like she would bite.

And more lately she seems fearful of little things like putting her harness on or clipping the leash on or my reaching over her. She will cringe down and shy away.

Then the guarding issues.

I'm a bit afraid that she will growl and bite when I least expect it, beings it could be over anything from an empty food dish to picking up something (not dog things) from the floor. Beings she doesn't do it every time I don't know what to make of it. And she doesn't give alot of a warning growl before she moves towards me.

She has actually bit me the time she was guarding things on the bedroom floor. Again not dogs things. Just a quick bite but still a bite. It is interesting how a cute little pet can become a wild animal in a split second.

What I have been trying to do is if it looks like a situation that could be a guarding issue I try to change the situation. I will call her to me and have her sit. That seems to work mostly. Distracts her from what she was doing. I just don't always think about it ahead of time.

I got her a new metal crate yesterday and she growled at me when I got near it. She wasn't even in it. She must think alot of it.



Any thoughts or ideas on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

[sherrymyra]

I just wanted to add that for the most part, most of the time, Maggie doesn't have these issues. I hope I didn't make it sound like these behaviors were a full time job for her.

[emmabeth]

Im not entirely sure I agree with your vet on a dog not doing something because it is in, or it causes, pain.. most of us will at some point or another witness our dogs doing something we know must be hurting them, but doing it anyway, as our dogs get older and arthritic and that is just one example!

Ive seen my own dog desperate to run and hurtle about when she was restricted to onlead walks due to a painful knee condition - teh times she escaped our grasp and bounced around like a lunatic when she had a sore knee she was doing it despite the pain, her desire to do whatever overrides the pain and dogs are very good at this.

That said - we cant 'know' for certain, other explainations are that she expects pain, and that she remembers pain, and also that she feels something that you wouldnt exactly describe as pain.. but its still weird/uncomfortable/annoying.

With a spinal problem potentially there is some nerve damage there which could be causing any number of odd, unusual, uncomfortable sensations around her back end, hind legs etc - maybe something is tingly or numb or 'buzzy' feeling and that could be the cause of her circling/growling behaviour, since she doesnt know there ISNT something back there, biting her a$$!

Dogs definitely do not just stop doing things, and make a yelp, when they feel pain - definitely not that simple. For example, CKCS with Syringomyelia are noted to scratch at their ears and backs of their heads a lot, due to the discomfort they feel there and I have met dogs with sore feet who would bark at their own paws!

So - I would think it is pretty safe to say, there is some discomfort, maybe its pain, maybe in some instances it is the anticipation of pain (regardless of whether it then actually hurts or not) going on. I would hazard a guess that she is not at all keen to jump off the bed because it hurts (however illogical it is of her to get up there in the first place!) - for that I would provide her a ramp or set of steps so that she can get off the bed more easily.

The circling/growling thing - again I would think (from the dubious benefit of personal experience) that a lower back problem could be causing some numbness/tingling/cramping type discomfort which she doesnt understand and reacts as if there were something on her back or biting her.

Will she let you touch her when shes doing this, to maybe rub or scritch - or will that guarantee you a munched hand? I definitely wouldnt attempt to correct this behaviour though, I can't see that being of any benefit.

For the apparant guarding - I think this is going to boil down to better management - it may be that shes fine if shes not sore but sometimes she is sore, and then certain things are more valuable to her at those times (she feels more vulnerable so feels the need to warn you away from them).

By all means, work with her, with clicker training for instance, to try and get through to her that you can be trusted and she doesnt need to overreact, build up her confidence - that can't do any harm.

I could be wrong, it could be that she doesnt have any pain at all these days and is merely a very sensitive dog who remembers back to when she did have pain - however erring on the side of caution and assuming that she does have discomfort/pain is going to be safer than deciding she doesnt.

A couple of things that may be worth further research, would be acupuncture, and Ttouch massage.

[Pawzk9]

A really good book for a complete protocol for dealing with resource guarding is "Mine" by Jean Donaldson. As it will give you a more complete picture, and way of dealing with it than internet advice, I'd really try to get it. Your local library might have it. But it is an inexpensive little paperback and readily available. I'm not sure if you've done this, but if the behavior wasn't always there, but now is, I'd still be looking at the potential for a physical problem. Pain from arthritis, bony changes is certainly possible. But I'd also be sure that you have a recent panel for tick borne diseases and a full panel (not just T4) done to check thyroid function. Lyme, erlichia and hypothyroidism can all cause negative changes in behavior.

[Horace's Mum]

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I have noticed that Horus (who has a history of food and resource guarding) will from time to time turn anything into something of value if he is not feeling quite right - stressed, tired, confused or in pain. He will see me approach, get that look in his eye, and literally guard the first thing that is next to him, even if that is just a tiny scrap of paper. I think it is just another way that they retreat into their wilder side when they are troubled - and I would also agree strongly with Em that it does sound as if some of this behaviour is related to pain or some kind of feeling.

There are two ways I deal with this - the first is to avoid causing any situations as much as possible but within reason. This doesn't avoid the problem, but it helps to make her feel secure and less threatened, and the aim is that eventually you will be able to do more or less what you want around the house without her worrying.

The second is to make any confrontation much more rewarding for her than it is threatening. So for now, if she makes it onto the bed, get something else she would really really like (food or a toy for example) and ask her to come down and as soon as she does you get that reward in her mouth. Don't show her it before hand, you don't want to bribe her, but try to reduce the grumbling by making it super rewarding for her to respond to your request. Same with any other situation that you know she can have a problem with such as putting on her lead or harness. Also avoid bending over her to do this.

You are also doing the right thing in distracting her from a situation and then creating a different situation where she can be rewarded. Your main goal is to always set her up to succeed, so she always gets things right. So by avoiding, distracting or making something superexciting to do you will gradually show her that the world is in fact a really good place and not a scary one, and then she can learn to relax. You will have to learn to read the situations and your dog to know which tactic is most suitable at the time, but that will only benefit you because you will learn to understand a lot more about the way she thinks.

I am hoping that the new crate is intended as a safe cave for her to hide in, if so, excellent. Make it really comfy, but don't shut her in it until she is totally comfortable with it, if ever. Cover it with a blanket to make it even cosier, and teach her to use it when she feels unsafe - so if she randomly resource guards for no reason, distract her and invite her into the crate where there are a few treats waiting. She will eventually learn to go there when she feels unsafe of her own accord, and you can teach her to use it when she has chews and things as well. Feed her inside it too to help her feel safe.

Number one rule with a crate like this though is that inside the crate is HER space if she is inside or nearby, and you never go inside unless she is out of the room. If you need her out, you must ask her to come out, if she doesn't want to come with words and encouragement then the walk or whatever will have to wait. Help her learn to settle in it by asking her to go in and telling her to down and stay while you eat dinner or watch tv or whatever. Make sure you have a release command as well though to tell her when she can come out.

I would also get her eyes checked properly, and her skin. If she is developing eyesight difficulties that can make them very unsettled.

Ok, I've blabbered on enough, I hope some of it is useful!! Good luck

[sherrymyra]

Thank you everyone for giving me some really useful information. Horus and his resource guarding sounds just Maggie. I need to be more aware when I know she may be tired, stressed, or hyper, or perhaps in pain. That "look in the eye" is right. Although she doesn't give alot of warning before she tries to attack. I need to keep my senses alert.

She also seems touchy about me startling her when she is laying near. I find that if I ask her to "come" before I get up or move that she doesn't overreact over it.

The idea of offering her a treat after she does something I ask of her makes sense. Such as getting off the bed. Or a situation may arise where I ask her off the couch or something also. If she would get a reward she may learn that it is not such a bad thing to do as I ask.

I like what you said about setting her up to succeed and eliminating situations where she will fail. I just wasn't sure if that was an acceptable way of handling things. I'm happy you concur then. I feel alot better about that.

She has always had a crate. I started her sleeping in it at night again about a year ago. She runs in right away when she knows it is time for bed or when I leave the house. I only close her in for the night, not when I leave the house. I give her a treat and she is happy. I got her a new wire one because I thought she may be afraid of the unknown not being able to see what was outside of the plastic one. I'm not sure if the new one is making a difference. She still chases around and growls when she is inside (but perhaps not as much I think). The growl at night times can seem really menacing. That is why I thought she may feel afraid. It is different than the chasing and growling she does in other situations which seems just like what it is, chasing in circles and growling.

Honestly I have thought of her eyesight also. But then she doesn't seem to have a problem seeing things. She can spot squirrels for sure. Worth a check then. Also perhaps the medical workup would not be out of line. If nothing else to just rule things out.

I will practice these methods and ideas and hope to have a much happier and relaxed little dog. It has been frustrating and scary for both of us.

I don't think I mentioned this before. She often will ask to sit on my lap or someone elses. She is invited up and she seems tentative while there. Then as she gets off, she does the chasing in circles and growling. She asks to be there but while there doesn't seem to be at ease. Would you have any suggestions on what may make her relax more to enjoy it.

[sherrymyra]

Update. I have taken Maggie to the vet on June 2, so about 2 1/2 weeks now, and had her thyroid checked. He did the T4 test. The normal level is 1.6 to 5.0. Maggie came in at 1.8. I have her on medication and honestly she seems like a different dog. I read somewhere or the vet told me it may take 30 days to take effect. But even now I notice differences. She actually seems to be able to relax. She lays on the floor beside me when I am doing something and doesn't jump up spinning and growling when I move even just a little. Her random spinning and growling has been reduced overall . Not totally gone but alot better. She has not attacked me just out of the blue now for about two weeks. She seems to have more of a calmness about her. I feel like I don't have to be on alert constantly that she may attack me. It is a scary thing anticipating a dog attack. As well you all know.

I am concerned that she may still have some behavior issues, along the lines of being picked up, and grooming but those can be worked on. Maybe they will lessen also. And then again I still have no idea if pain may be an issue in any of this.

She is scheduled for grooming in two weeks and I am nervous about it. She has growled at the groomer the last couple of times. I am hoping this will also be a bit better. But still it may be a behavior issue that I will have to work with.

I was hesitant to post an update afraid I would jinx things but so far I really have a positive feeling about this.

Thank you all so much for helping me work through this.

[Nettle]

And thank YOU for the update, which means a lot to us.

I have a dog with thyroid issues also. We get along pretty well but every now and again there is a small setback. We work through it and all is well again - so don't worry about setbacks, they happen and we get over them.

[chiniwa]

Hi all,

I am new here and hope to get some help.

My dog - Japanese Spitz, has become so aggressive towards visitors or other dogs. It keeps barking the new people and occasionally growl and attempt to bite them. Same with other dogs. I find it hard to take him out for a walk and have friend to visit me.

He is not toilet trained well..

would anyone be kindly refer me to any victoria's video/episodes or book or any other resources preferably victoria's methods..

many thanks

[Leigha]

How old is he?

[Noobs]

chiniwa it would help if you post a new topic in the dog training section, so it doesn't get lost in this thread that's about a different issue. Here's a link if you can't find how to do it:

viewforum.php?f=4

Go there and click the "New Topic" button above the first post.

Once you're there, reintroduce yourself and give the following details:

Dog's breed & age
Describe issue(s)
Describe daily routine - this includes what times he is fed, what he eats, how much training he gets, how often (and how long) is he walked, how much play, how much time playing mind games, etc.

Another thing you could do is a search on what your problems are and see if there are already articles and/or threads that might help.

For example, here's an article on potty training:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6125

A good book that was a lifesaver to me when my dog developed problems with dogs and people on our walks was "Scaredy Dog!" by Ali Brown. Another good one is "Cautious Canine" by Patricia McConnell. Both those books use positive training so there will be no aversives and no dominance talk, so they're safe for you to read and implement for your dog.

Good luck!

[sherrymyra]

Nettle thank you for your comment about your dog having a setback now and then. While Maggie is doing so so much better I'm glad that I understand that there may setbacks and all is not lost.

I will take one day at a time and see how it all goes.