Body Language

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***Melissa***
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Body Language

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Em, I don't know where to post this, so please move it if you have a better place for this :)

I think I know my own doggies pretty well...I know when they are uneasy, when they are excited, I know when they will react, and what it is they react for, I know when they are happy, and I know what they like, I know Striker will even in summer lay under the blankies and especially like it if his face is covered, I know Bibi hates it when her face is covered by the blankies...in general, I think I know my doggies.

That being said, after reading Nettle's reply to Meggit about how to read your dog's body to see what he is smelling (that is awesome), I started to think (actually, I'm trying to read their body lang for a while now, but when Nettle posted that was when I decided I should really put more effort into it)...I really don't know dog body language at all (and now I'm wondering if I actually see everything my doggies is telling me). I have picked up (from this forum) general things like middle-tail-wagging is happy, but sniffing is good manners, low and roling to show tummy is submissive, tail between legs is afraid (I'm now really hoping I don't have any of this wrong :lol: )...things like that, but apart from a few tiny things I can't really read other dogs' body lang.

Now I'm also thinking that maybe I can't read Striker & Bibi's body lang, and the things that I do know about them I just 'know'...but I don't know how I know it. I just do. I do think that I will be able to read another dog's body lang when the signs are very clear, but not with subtle signs. Also, only the basic signs, not the really finer stuff like Nettle can by the way a dog is sniffing.

I think it was Mattie who posted links to youtube with vids of body language...unfortunatelly I don't have access to youtube :(

I googled it, but found that all the sites have really basic stuff, and don't tell you how to look at the whole body, they just tell you what ears up, down, back, to the front mean, what does diff positions of the tail mean, etc. But nothing that includes all in one.

I was wondering whether anyone know of any websites that explains this fully?
Also, I posted pics of my doggies while at the dam, where Striker was mostly doing sniffing, but his tail was really low, so I wondered what that mean...if it's not too much trouble maaaaaayyyyybeeeee you (whoever has the time) can look at the piccies and tell me? Here is a link: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6228
But I would love to know of a really good website for body lang, I really want to learn it.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
meggit
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Re: Body Language

Post by meggit »

after reading nettles post i am now watching buddy sniff and his body language and shes right its amazing the different things he does for different smells all i got to do now is work out what they all mean :? but our walk today was a lot better for me because i was watching him more closely and trying to figure out what he had heard/smelt so thankyou very much nettle as usual your advise was perfect :D
meggit
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Re: Body Language

Post by meggit »

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkk replied to the wrong post sorry but any way i agree with you melissa i want to know more now :D
GoofyDog2
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Re: Body Language

Post by GoofyDog2 »

I have found several good sources of information on canine body language, as well as general ideas about how dogs think, which is helpful. One of the most notable (mostly about calming signals) is Turid Rugaas: http://www.neholistic.com/articles/0099.htm, and http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/calmingsignals.html

These seem pretty good, and have pictures: http://www.squidoo.com/readyerdog and http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/diagrams.html

I also like this one. http://www.wagntrain.com/BodyLanguage.htm And there are some interesting links on page two: http://www.wagntrain.com/BodyLanguage2.htm

For an insight into how dogs may think, try Temple Grandin: http://www.grandin.com/inc/animals.in.translation.html

I try to observe dog body language in as many situations as possible. It helps to look for certain things as described in these websites, and also look for other signals. Then go back and see how they compare. Observe your own dog's language as he or she communicates with you, and also with other dogs and people. Spend some time sitting on a bench and watching other dogs interact with each other, with their handlers, and with strangers. Also observe the people and how they communicate with their dogs. Maybe take notes or pictures. You can never learn too much, and you may find yourself better able to communicate with your own dogs and others. It's fascinating and rewarding. :)
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emmabeth
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Re: Body Language

Post by emmabeth »

In addition to GoofyDogs post..

if you can access any videos online (there are sites other than youtube around!).. turn off the sound and watch all the body language, even start picking it out in people.

Like any language you have to learn, you start out with the very basic bits, the 'yes' and 'no' and 'my friend will pay' and 'the monkey is on the branch' type bits (for anyone who learned french at school..i cant imagine why we needed to know how to say that the monkey was on the branch but we did!), and those get you by..

But the real learning of another language comes with immersing yourself in it, pushing yourself to see how and where its used until it becomes second nature to see it (as with a spoken language when you really learn it... you THINK in that language as well rather than think in your original language, translate, then speak the new one..).

Practice makes perfect and dont forget where animals are concerned - we humans can really put a spanner in the works and modify a dogs language to become very strange indeed (check out the general chat forum for the thread with the link to a dog seemingly 'smiling'...).
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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Noobs
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Re: Body Language

Post by Noobs »

emmabeth wrote: (check out the general chat forum for the thread with the link to a dog seemingly 'smiling'...).
Here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5474

It's 3 pages in so I thought I'd make it easier to find. :)
GoofyDog2
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Re: Body Language

Post by GoofyDog2 »

From a quick "dogpile" search of "Dog Smile" I came up with these:

Although titled "submission", this describes a dog smile as having mouth open and teeth exposed:
http://www.seefido.com/html/dog_submission.htm
I think this page shows dogs actually smiling:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/smile4.htm

The dog in the video seems to be clenching her teeth, and at times seems to be shaking, indicating stress and fear. A true smile is when a dog is relaxed. I have some pictures on Paul's http://www.muttleydog.com website (posted with permission) that show what I think are real smiles:
Image
Image

Long ago a friend told me he had a big, friendly Doberman who would smile like that as a way of begging. One time the dog wandered to a neighbor's place where a barbecue was going on and yummy steaks were on the grill. His dog "smiled" and they just saw a huge dog with big teeth, and he wound up with a few tasty hunks of meat when the people scattered in fear. :lol:
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Mattie
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Re: Body Language

Post by Mattie »

You can't beat a bull breed for a smiling doggy, this is Sasha, she has served her time in the pound and is now in rescue, the first picture was taken in the pound and as you can see she is smiling, the second was on the hand over on the transport run, again she is smiling. The staff at the pound adored her because all she did was smile and her foster dad is in love because she has a wonderful temperament, all smiley. :lol:

In the pound

Image

On her way, already done about 90 miles, another 190 miles to go.

Image
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
GoofyDog2
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Re: Body Language

Post by GoofyDog2 »

I think the slack jaw and floppy tongue are signs of relaxation and calmness. She's a big, beautiful dog, and I should think one need not fear a dog with such a benign and happy expression. She should be happy, getting sprung from doggy jail! Thanks for the great pictures and example of a good sort of body language. :D

What sort of chain collar is she wearing? It looks like a choker chain but adjusted so it does not tighten, and I suppose this may be required at the pound. Is she one of yours? What's her name?
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Pawzk9
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Re: Body Language

Post by Pawzk9 »

GoofyDog2 wrote: A true smile is when a dog is relaxed. I have some pictures on Paul's http://www.muttleydog.com website (posted with permission) that show what I think are real smiles:
Image
Image
So, Paul, is this you back under a new name? (you mentioned that on RPDT that you'd re-joined this forum with a new name)
As to dog body language, Barbara Handleman's "Canine Behavior, a photo Illustrated handbook" and Brenda Aloff's "Canine Body Language" are both very nice. Turid Rugaas's Calming Signals DVD has some nice stuff, though I dislike where the "looking away" dog is clearly being cued/lured because it really doesn't look the same. Brenda Aloff says (and I agree with her on this) that looking at one body part for emotion is like trying to find meaning in a single word instead of the sentence in which it's used. Sometimes the most useful information doesn't come from how the tail is carried (a Greyhound relaxed tail looks a lot different that a Husky relaxed tail) or the ears (which can be very different in different breeds) but by looking at the whole dog. What are the subtle muscles around the eyes and mouth doing? Is the dog's orientation foreward or backward, etc. The more complete the sentence, the more you're understanding about how the dog feels.
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GoofyDog2
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Re: Body Language

Post by GoofyDog2 »

No, I'm just goofydog, with my old mellow yellow Lab Mahlee. Paul and Muttley are my friends and I met them when we all went to Woofstock last September. He's a nice guy and he was really surprised when he logged on last August and found that he was banned, with no official warning or explanation. He couldn't even view the forums because they blocked his IP address, so he had to do so as a guest from a computer where he worked. After I met him and Muttley he asked me from time to time to post some pictures here for him, and we have exchanged emails about some of the threads here. He'd like to be allowed back, but frankly he has become disappointed in some aspects of positive training as promoted here, and he has become active on the CM forum. :shock:

I've been warned not be Paul's sock puppet so I won't say any more. Let's keep this thread focused on canine body language, OK? Thanks. :)
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***Melissa***
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Re: Body Language

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Woohoo, thanx for all the replies...I sure have a ton of reading & watching to do.

Unfortunatelly it's difficult for me to watch other dogs, as the culture here is that dogs are generally kept in a backyard (small dogs are sometimes allowed inside), but no walking, training, etc. Obviously there are people who really love their dogs, and who try to do the best they can, but it's only beginning now, and I have never ever seen anyone in our town walking their dogs. (I am the only one). So most big dogs are not well socialised (they are ususally kept as guard dogs, not matter what they were bred to do), where small dogs are seen as companion dogs mostly...they usually receive more attention that big dogs, and they are 'better' socialised, etc (but still not walked). (There are exceptions, but only a tiny amount of people)

I know in Cape Town (about 1500 km from where I stay) people walk their dogs on the beach everyday, which I think is awesome...but that is not how it is here. And also, in big cities there are dog trainers (not sure what methods they use though), people who do agility with their dogs, etc, but that really is the exception and not the rule.

Where I stay we can barely call our vet a vet, so forget about dog handlers, trainers, dogs going on walks, etc. We have a lot of stray dogs, but obviously these dogs are usually extremely scared and will run away (I think they will attack if they don't have the option to run away).

This leaves me with a few good friends who also love their doggies and try to do what's best for them, and when we visit them we can take our doggies with, and when they visit us they bring their doggies. That is really the only other doggies who I'm able to observe, and obvisouly this is not something that happen that often.

I am trying to talk to people to tell them more about doggies & their stuff, (not that I'm an expert or anything, but I usually talk about stuff I read on here, and even though I really don't know nearly as much as most people on here, I know a lot more than the people in my area). But usually they just look at me as if I'm crazy.

So anyway, that's why I'm so depended on finding other ways to learn body language. Thanx for all the links & info, I'll read through every single one of them :D
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
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Mattie
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Re: Body Language

Post by Mattie »

GoofyDog2 wrote: What sort of chain collar is she wearing? It looks like a choker chain but adjusted so it does not tighten, and I suppose this may be required at the pound. Is she one of yours? What's her name?
Sorry I don't know what Sasha has on, we do try to give the dogs a collar of their own but Sasha was too big for the collars we have. We are a new rescue, only been going about 6 months and there is only 4 of us with the help of 3 men who help with the transporting.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
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***Melissa***
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Re: Body Language

Post by ***Melissa*** »

Okay, I only read through 2 links then decided to print it out, and study it tonight. I'll also have to make notes, b/c I'll never remember everything. Goodness, I realised it was complicated, but it is even more complicated than I thought...*sigh*...nothing comes easy, does it? :lol:

And Noobs, thanks for finding the link for me with the video :D Unfortunatelly I'm not able to view that vid either...I have access to the site, but I can't play the vid. And I don't know enough about IT stuff to figure out why not :roll:

Thanx again everyone, my studying will start tonight...wish me luck :D
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
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Mattie
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Re: Body Language

Post by Mattie »

Sometimes the most useful information doesn't come from how the tail is carried (a Greyhound relaxed tail looks a lot different that a Husky relaxed tail) or the ears (which can be very different in different breeds) but by looking at the whole dog.
I always tell people to look for tension in the tail or ears, were the tail is takes second place because of the differences in tails, even a very curly tail shows tension very clearly. When training to be a riding instructor we were told to look at the whole picture first, it is easier to see what the problem is, you can then target the problem, it is the same with dogs, look at the whole first, and you will see where the tension is.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
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