Destructive when left... (split from another post)

[SarahLou]

I got my rescue pup 4 months ago, and she's approx. 6 1/2- 7 months old now, and I can't leave her alone because when I do she DESTROYS things! She's very smart, and apparently took note of everything she saw me putting in or on my mouth (ibuprofen, glucosamine chondroitin supplements, vitamins, some yummy-smelling lip-balm & lip gloss) -the child-proof caps were useless because she chewed through the bottles or containers they were in, and I left thinking she couldn't reach them on the counter top or on my night stand! After calling the Emergency Vet and, inducing vomiting, and sorting through what came up to see what she ate (she was ok) it scared me a lot to know what she was capable of. She's grown fast and now has long legs, can reach most things she sets her mind to, is Very dexterous with her paws (she can even lock AND unlock the front door, locking me out when I was in the hall talking with a neighbor once; I guess she was telling me she didn't like being left in while I got to have a 'social minute' - all I could do was listen while she destroyed the contents of my purse while I waited for the after-hours emergency maintenance guy to unlock my door for me after explaining that my puppy locked me out )
It's great that we've bonded, but I need to be able to leave her alone sometimes, but how do you correct destructive behavior when not there? I left treats, a pig ear, filled treat balls, and a rawhide chewie to keep her occupied, but she went for everything she knew was off-limits/ things I wouldn't give her.

[emmabeth]

You cant correct it - correction depends on you being there.

Positive reward training doesnt really work by correcting ... instead you manage, pre-empt, teach alternative behaviours. There are some consequences for unwanted behaviours that you need to stop but again.. if you are not there you cannot employ these!

So you have to manage - crate train, tidy things up better/more, provide more exercise and mental stimulation so that when left a pup is more inclined to sleep.

Can you run through your pups daily routine, mentioning what you feed, how much exercise she gets, how long shes left for, where shes left in the house, what training you have done/do regularly etc. Anything you think might be relevant and even things you might not think are relevant!

[SarahLou]

I thought I HAD tidied up well enough & "puppy proofed", but she got thing off the counter tops, things I didn't predict she'd be interested in, but when I looked at it all, they were things that I used (put in or on my mouth, like the dietary supplements and lip balm) or used/ paid attention to (like my leather headband that she ate, even though she had rawhide chewies and a pig ear + filled treat balls). I recognize her intelligence because she remembers where everything is, even if it's just by sight - she knew where these things were and she went for them.
It's hard to have an *exact* regular schedule as I have Aspergers syndrome and ADD and have been injured for the past 2 months (torn ligament in ankle), and before that we were BOTH being treated for saroptes mange (she was itchy from the time I brought her home from the shelter, but the first vet visit didn't reveal the problem as this mite doesn't show up often on a skin scrape test, even under a microscope). Yup, I got it too, because she's a champion cuddler and we sleep in the same bed. We've both been treated now, but until we were both medically cleared, neither one of us could be around other people or dogs for a while. To back up, she was brought home when I still had my beloved 14 yr. old service dog, but 2 days before Christmas she unexpectedly went into heart failure, after the girls had only been together 3 weeks. My older girl HAD been doing a wonderful job of helping me housetrain this boisterous baby (showing her how to do it, and where the best spots to potty outside were), and showing her good playing 'manners' - even demonstrating basic training and tricks, which our adopted one paid CLOSE attention to and copied just like a little "monkey-see--monkey-do"!
Up until my older became ill, I had been taking both of them on lengthy walks several times a day (baby girl would nap in between and be ready to go, go, go, again!) So enough exercise wasn't a problem, and she had a companion when I left, so I was surprised when the destruction began. (the chewing/ destroying/ getting into things didn't start until after my older girl passed away, 1-3-2010 )
She can open cupboards (she got all the first-aid supplies out of a bin from a cupboard under the bathroom sink, chewed her way through gauze pads, band-aids, wipes, ointment, etc. after watching me put a band-aid on my finger - which she wanted to lick/ nibble but I kept telling her "ah ah"), and drawers, reach up onto the counter top, my nightstand...
She took my hat & gloves from the cabinet top in the front entry and "hid"/ buried them various places (she has the dig/ bury instinct) -but this was an antique wood cabinet and she scratched the top with those puppy claws
I knew that scolding/ being mad would be of no use - the deed was done - and my service dog always knew and cared about how I was feeling, so I let my pup see how this made me feel; I picked up some of the broken things and made whimpering noises & hung my head down. She acted VERY sorry, (I think) going to the only place where she had not destroyed anything (by the laundry closet) and wouldn't re-enter "the scene of the crime" until I came to her and held her after doing a clean-up of my home. Was it ok to do that? How am I going to prevent this kind of destruction again?

[Nettle]

If you cannot give your dog the care, stimulus and training she needs - and you sound smart, and I'm sure you realise the importance of basic training and socialising NOW - you either need to involve someone else, maybe a professional, who CAN provide what she needs, or think seriously about rehoming her. This is about her needs. I am not unsympathetic about your needs, but you have help available and she has not.

Lest you think I am inexperienced in what you have been through, I too have had sarcoptic mange (easily cured in humans) and have been closely involved with others who have Asperger's. But your dog did not choose to live this way - you chose to have her - and we need to discuss a better life for her. She does not need to be exposed to your emotions - she needs to feel safe and secure, have consistent handling and a safe environment to live in by her perception. As a start, dogs do not understand property, its importance to us, or what it means when they destroy it. All they see is something that smells good and feels good to chew. When we get emotional, it makes our dogs feel insecure - it doesn't tell them how we want them to behave.

We can and would love to help you train her and give her a healthy home - but only you can see that it is done.

[SarahLou]

I understand that puppies explore by putting things in their mouths, and that no dog ever understands monetary/ property loss - but as I was cleaning up I was trying to "think dog", and since my service dog of 14 yrs. seemed to care, and I imitated "sad dog" noises. I don't think doing it this one time damaged her, as I held her and talked to her (after I cleaned up enough to walk around my home) trying fully to help her feel/ know that I still loved her just as much as ever
While no dog gets to choose their owner I agree I may not be ideal, but my doctor suggested I get another one before my service dog got too old (I just didn't know we were doing to lose her so soon.) and I chose to get one from a shelter - she was 2 days away from being euthanized (max. stay at this shelter was 30 days).
While my ankle has been injured, my dad, a friend who also has a dog (she takes mine with hers to the off-leash park) and my caregiver have been helping me exercise my puppy. I'm not neglecting her needs. This isn't my first dog.
As a person with Asperger's, I'm rarely outwardly emotional in a way that can be perceived by anyone else (so no need to worry about her being "exposed" to my emotions)
I just want to know how/ if I can prevent this in the future.

[Mattie]

I thought I HAD tidied up well enough & "puppy proofed", but she got thing off the counter tops, things I didn't predict she'd be interested in, but when I looked at it all, they were things that I used (put in or on my mouth, like the dietary supplements and lip balm) or used/ paid attention to (like my leather headband that she ate, even though she had rawhide chewies and a pig ear + filled treat balls). I recognize her intelligence because she remembers where everything is, even if it's just by sight - she knew where these things were and she went for them.

This brings back memories I am sorry you have lost your old girl, I lost my old boy 4 weeks ago because of heart problems.

First thing to do is to relax, I recommend opening a bottle of wine or having some chocolate, I prefer the wine.

You have a dog that is looking for work which she can do, you need to find her this work, teaching her to help you round the house will be good for her, use clicker training for this and she will learn quite quickly and easily. The training will also help tire her out, she needs mental exercise as well as physical. There is a good thread in the Articles section that will tell you how to clicker train.

She took my hat & gloves from the cabinet top in the front entry and "hid"/ buried them various places (she has the dig/ bury instinct) -but this was an antique wood cabinet and she scratched the top with those puppy claws
I knew that scolding/ being mad would be of no use - the deed was done - and my service dog always knew and cared about how I was feeling, so I let my pup see how this made me feel; I picked up some of the broken things and made whimpering noises & hung my head down. She acted VERY sorry, (I think) going to the only place where she had not destroyed anything (by the laundry closet) and wouldn't re-enter "the scene of the crime" until I came to her and held her after doing a clean-up of my home. Was it ok to do that? How am I going to prevent this kind of destruction again?

Yup, I also have had good furniture damaged by my dogs teeth and claws, dogs don't know what they have done a few seconds after they have stopped doing it she doesn't know that you were upset about the cabinet, all she saw was mummy was very angry about something, she wasn't acting as if she was sorry because she didn't understand, she was showing submission to appease your anger and this is why she went from the "scene of the crime" and refused to go back. This is a very human thing to do but not good dog training.

You have a very intelligent dog, she needs to be shown what you want her to do, telling her off after she has done it has no meaning to her. Set her up to succeed by making sure she can't get anything, and that means being extremely tidy with no slip-ups, so she can't pull things down or it be worth while to get up on the counters. I have 3 dogs that counter surf which is why they are always kept clear, never used to be until I got a dog that counter surfed.

Relax and start to think about setting her up to do what you want, put her in the position where she can't do anything else, and you will soon have a lovely, well mannered, well behaved dog again.

[SarahLou]

I don't think I appeared angry when I came home - I was exhausted and it took a lot of effort to show anything (like when I did the dog whimpering sounds, which I stopped as soon as I saw her in the corner...)
She was able to scratch up the top of the wood cabinet because I'd removed the embroidered runner that was on it (protecting the top) - thinking that without that there she wouldn't be able to pull everything off again, but (sigh), she was/IS long legged enough to reach anyway.
I had prepared all 10 of her treat balls (we have ones from Canine Genius in 2 sizes, Planet Dog in assorted shapes, Hi-Q, Dogzilla, Kong, Busy Buddy, -and a few I can't remember the brand names of but they're fun, challenging, and made of super-tough shark-proof rubber; she likes them) with different flavors of yummies in them, and placed them in strategic (obvious) spots. (I'll spend $20-$100 on dog toys, but loathe spending anything on ME) I also left her with a pig ear and a rawhide smeared with peanut butter, but they were all *untouched* when I returned, in favor of things she had obviously been planning on in advance (i.e. my lip balm, which she tried to lick off any time I applied it - it did smell good) which I would place out of her reach (or so I thought ).
I remained calm, and just reminded myself it's a good thing I make sure anything I can get all-natural or organic I do (like my lip balm) because pups might EAT things - and she did, licked it alll out of the tube.
I even recorded 3 hours worth of Dogs 101 and Cats 101, because those are programs that she notices and will watch for a few seconds at a time - I thought at least having the tv on would sound 'normal' and somewhat a comfort to her.

[Mattie]

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are thinking human not dog. If you go to the Articles section you will find a thread on body language, I found this really helped me with my dogs and I am sure it will help you as well. To get the best out of our dogs we have to think dog, he need to learn about their way of communicating not ours. It isn't easy to change our thinking but we have all been through this can came through it, so can you.

[Sarah83]

I still crate my almost 7 year old dog because this is exactly the sort of thing I used to come home to. Didn't matter how many chews, toys or bones I left for him he preferred the couch, the stairs, the door frames, the windowsills and anything else he could get his teeth into. There are still occasions where I have to redirect him to something appropriate for chewing while I'm home although they're few and far between now so I just put him in his crate where the only things he has to chew are things I'm not gonna be upset about.

[SarahLou]

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are thinking human not dog. If you go to the Articles section you will find a thread on body language, I found this really helped me with my dogs and I am sure it will help you as well. To get the best out of our dogs we have to think dog, he need to learn about their way of communicating not ours. It isn't easy to change our thinking but we have all been through this can came through it, so can you.

If you could tell me what part of my thinking was human, or which of her body language you're referring to I'd appreciate it.
I'm not new to this, I've already trained one dog - and she was well trained enough to be my service dog(for 14 yrs.) - but I haven't trained THIS dog.

I've now uploaded her sweet face as my avatar; she's a mixed breed shelter puppy, but as best we can guess she's German Shepherd (those markings are most distinguishable: dark around the muzzle and top of back & tail + "beauty mark" at cheek whiskers), then Aussie Shepherd/ Vizsla/ German Shorthair? Red body, short smooth coat, gold eyes, lean muscled body, lots of loose skin on the neck but head shaped like a seal's...
She loves to kiss - everyone. And Smart! She's never just watching what I'm doing, she's learning it. When I asked her "Want a peanut butter sandwich?" I turned around to see her on her hind legs pulling open the drawer where the utensils are; had I not exclaimed her name, would she have selected a spoon or a knife? hmmm...

[Mattie]

If you could tell me what part of my thinking was human, or which of her body language you're referring to I'd appreciate it.
I'm not new to this, I've already trained one dog - and she was well trained enough to be my service dog(for 14 yrs.) - but I haven't trained THIS dog.

I have already asked you to look at the body language thread in the Articles section of this board, It is up to you to look at it not me, I have already seen it and learnt so much.

You have trained 1 dog, I have 4 dogs here now that I have trained, that isn't counting the many dogs at the Rainbow Bridge that I trained, my dogs have all been rescues and most came with terrible problems including these I have now. I have also worked with many rescue dogs and helping their owners to turn them from terrified, misunderstood dogs into lovely family pets. I am still learning, the more I learn the more I realise I know very little about dogs but you seem to think that because you have trained one dog you know it all. Sorry you don't. This dog you have you will have to change your thinking or you will continue to have problems with her.

I also have a dog that can open cupboards etc. I make sure he can't by either keeping him out of the room or altering them so he can't. I also make sure that he has other things to occupy his mind, like teaching him various things. He managed to get a box of chocolates off a shelf that was 7ft off the ground once, another time opened a cupboard I thought I had made safe and took the screw top off a jar. It isn't easy to get round these but unless I did my dog would have been dead, he stopped breathing on the operating table when he ate the box of chocolates.

All I, and anyone else on here can do is offer you advice, it is up to you whether you take that advice or not.

[SarahLou]

I have just finished watching all 7 parts, now will you share your observations with me? I can't read your mind...
I have already gotten child-safety latches for any cupboards and drawers that I don't want her opening anymore, and all supplements, OTC & prescription meds are in a latched lockbox. I know it is my responsibility to keep her safe once I know what she can and will do, or may be capable of. She's curious, smart, and it takes her seeing something ONCE to learn it.

[Mattie]

I can't see what is happening with your pup so can't observe what is happening only you can do that. The body language clips should help with what your pup is doing and saying.

I found that child locks never work, dogs find their way round them, I would confine her to 1 puppy proofed room when out using gates to keep her there. If she jumps the gates 2 child gates, one on top of the other, should stop that.

You have a dog that will learn quickly, teach her to help you round the house, fetch named items, load and unload the washing machine, tidy up by putting things back in their places. There is a lot you can teach her which will exercise her brain and help tire her out so she settles when you go out instead of getting into mischief.

[emmabeth]

The cringey/cowery/guilty looking/sorry looking behaviour is a reaction to your behaviour - it is not and it never will be, an understanding of the concept of 'done wrong'.

It is 'your behaviour unnerves me and I am worried, I will offer you this in an attempt to appease you'. This is all it is, you could pick up any random, unbroken item and behave the same way shed offer you the same sort of reaction. You could go make a mess in a room yourself, then take her in there and do what you did, shed react the same way.. shes reading your body language and responding in a way designed to protect herself and make you stop.

Shes picking up these items that you have handled because you handling them makes them more interesting to her, they smell of you, shes seen you touching them, that makes them interesting to her and comforting to chew and have close to her when you are gone and shes alone.

Try taking some of her (clean) toys to bed with you and wearing a tshirt you can then give to her, so these items smell of you and are comforting to her.