Help needed regarding wild life

sadie · Post by **sadie** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:53 am

I have 2 westies both nearly 2 years old they get along great with each other and other dogs when we are out, they are both really friendly.
No trouble house training them although when I got them I did think it would be hard to train 2 puppies at the same time, the problem we have is when out walking we are now unable to let them run free off the lead.

They won't come back when called if they see a rabbit or a squirell. One is worse than the other on the look out the whole time we have tried distracting them with toys and ball to chase but it's not as much fun as chasing wild life

I don't like the idea of not being able to let them run free but I am so scared of losing them. We have lost them once they ran into undergrowth chasing a rabbit we were unable to see them and calling them didn't help at all luckily someone had seen them and was able to tell us which direction they were the problem was they had split up we found one but the other was missing for quite some time before we eventually found her. Now I have lost my coinfidence at letting them go.

I have tried treats on recall also, I used to take them on a large sports ground and let them go they were fine if I stayed in the middle of the field but if they saw movement from the trees around the edge they would be off and no amount of shouting or coxeing would bring them back, I tried running in the opposite direction this didn't work either.

I have never had a dog before that I wasn't unable to let run and wonder if this is the downfall of having 2, I have previously only ever owned 1 at a time.

This is the only problem we have with them they are loving, good natured and wonderful pets I just wish I could break this habit.
I know they are terriers but I have always had westies and never had this problem before.

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:43 pm

If you've never had this problem before then you have been incredibly lucky!

Most dogs will chase small, furry critters with a passion.

Distractions need to be added gradually. Imagine a scale of 1-10 where 1 is a recall in the kitchen at home just before dinner time while you are holding a whole roast chicken. 10 is where you're out on the common and a rabbit races directly in front of you with your dogs off-lead - it doesn't get more demanding than this!

Your training needs to go in order, you need to be able to train Level 1, then 2, then 3 then 4,5,6,7...10

What you're doing is training level 1,2 then skipping straight to 10!

Until you've got to at least level 9 (come when called on a long leash with rabbits without being pulled), walk your dogs on leash in this area. If they do run off, do NOT call them. Wait for them to return and, believe it or not, reward them when they do.

There are short-cuts, but why take a short-cut? It will fail eventually, and could have dire consequences.

sadie · Post by **sadie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:38 am

On a scale of 1-10 I would probably only reach 2 with recall on these two.

sadie · Post by **sadie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:39 am

What would you suggest is the best way of trying and will it be a lot harder with 2 dogs at the same time?

I see a lot of hard work in front of me

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:36 am

I see a lot of hard work too! But if you're patient enough you should be successful.
I think Aidan is saying to train them on long leads until you reach the point where they come on the long lead even when there are rabbits, without being pulled back

In the meantime, with the long leads they can run well ahead of you, but they are still attached to you - so that if a rabbit runs in front of them they can't get away.

You say that you have ran in the opposite direction - have you included the high pitch "fun" sounds, the trills and whistles and calling their name in excited high pitched voices at the same time?

I would do what Aidan suggested - and always reward them for coming back, even if you're REALLY frustrated at them coz they pulled to get to the rabbits.

I'd like to know the different levels of distractions though, how you get from level 1-10!

sadie · Post by **sadie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:46 pm

Thanks for the replies,
Looks like I need to invest in a couple of long leads.
At the moment I can't see this working as they are sensing from each other that there is a rabbit or squirell to chase.
I have tried running in the other direction and shouting in a really nice voice not an angry voice and giving them a treat when they eventually do return but it is a little hit and miss(more miss really) at the moment.
One is better behaved than the other one she will run and play with a ball and most of the time she does recall ok but I cannot trust her 100%,
as soon as the other one makes a noise as though she had seen or heard something she will run to join in the chase.

At the moment they are both being walked on the lead I will let the better behaved one run for a while chasing the ball but then I feel bad as the naughty one has to be restained

leigh · Post by **leigh** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:09 pm

have you tried walking them seperately? It may be easier to train them individually if one is distracting the other. Once they learn individually not to chase after distractions, they should learn not to chase after each other? I know that even for basic training, i have a LOT of difficulty training both of my dogs together - so I separate them and do it separately most of the time.

Aidan · Post by **Aidan** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:54 pm

Hi Sadie, it's definitely harder with two dogs at the same time (unless one dog is really, really good at coming back, then you can use a little pack drive to help).

It's always a question of balancing what is most effective against what is practical for the owner and the well-being of the dogs. I would certainly recommend regular walks with each dog individually, it avoids all sorts of problems.

Lots of practise at home, at friend's houses, at the field when there are no rabbits about. Only reward the fastest responses, set some loose standards and tighten them up when they get really good at it in each different scenario.

Never ask a dog to do something when you're not at least 80% sure they will do it. Have another cue for when you just need to try, against the odds.

When they get good at it, try rolling a ball in front of them, or call them off their dinner bowls or water (evil, I know). Set them up for success, mind. If they can't succeed you can't reinforce - if you can't reinforce you're not training anything useful.