2 problems ; Pulling, meeting and greeting other dogs.

[loza123]

So as some of you may know we have had Bob for nearly a month, will be a month tomorrow.
But we seem to have a few problems with him at the moment; His pulling on the lead and he does not have great Socialization skills.
We are taking him to dog training classes but this was to help us get him trained , his is in the a room full of dogs and does not really go for them but they never get to meet and greet. When we have taken him out he tends to pull towards the other dog and tends to attack them if there close and as this is normally the time i pull him away he pulls towards the other dog , normally wagging his tail a little. If he can’t get to the other dog he will just pull towards them then normally just do some circles around me or keep looking back at this other dog. We have just come back from a walk now and met some dogs , one a staffie I had hoped him might get along with. They met head on and mine ( Bob) went for this staffie called Jack , jack followed suit and went for Bob aswell though it was more snarling etc then actually attacking Bob attacked him first and Jack defended himself. Saying that Bob has never pinned a dog down. After that Jack stayed clear but Bob was still pulling towards him nearly all the time he was wagging his tail a little. I thought it might be a good idea to allow Bob to smell Jacks bum but Jack just kept away from Bob. Soon after a KCS ( King Charles) came into the field on its lead chasing a ball. Bob looked at it and was pulling towards it, after we saw a cocker spaniel , the owner put it on the lead as we walked past and Bob was pulling , straining like when there pulling really hard you can hear them almost gasping for air.
Honestly I think if he wanted to attack them he would be lungding at them with his teeth showing , feel free to tell me your opinion , but that’s mine  I think he does want to maybe play. The Big Problem we have is because he is a strong dog and pulls and tends to attack them when they first meet as most of the times the dogs are meeting head to head its hard to find someone he will them them both meet because of what happens when they do. But yet how are we meant to get him used to other dogs?
Also with his pulling we was using the techquine of when he pulls stand still or go in the other direction yet my family and me included have not continued to do so, the reason being i thought he was not pulling as much and it only needed a gentle pull on the lead, i have since found out that when my parents take the dog out for a walk my dad wears gloves so he does not get blisters. 
Another thing i find very frustrating is when my mum will tell the dog to sit and if he does not do it she pushes his bum down. I told her not to do it as he is not doing it for himself and my mum said “ Well he sits” I said “ Of course he sits your pushing his bum down!”
I am just very annoyed and i also feel quite guilty as my mum has blisters, she is getting him a gentle leader tomorrow, but am thinking now would a harness be better? We are meeting Jack again tomorrow to get them used to each other we thought if he meet him quite alot they might get used to each other , hopefully?
I’m a bit stuck on what to do his a lovely dog ut i don’t really know at this moment how to help him.
Help? Laurenxx

[Nettle]

No he does not want to play.

He is fearful, and driving the other dog away. He may well do damage to another dog. We have a ton of threads here on this behaviour, so have a look through and come back to us with your questions because we can help and we want to help. Meanwhile do not force interaction with other dogs: it is too soon for him and will make things worse.

For lead-walking: you know how to do it and sounds as if you were doing well, so go back to basics and get him walking nicely again.

For the rest, sadly if the rest of the family are doing training differently from you, it's a pain but that's families: people are far harder to train than dogs. Carry on with what YOU know is right, and gets the right response.

[jacksdad]

Meanwhile do not force interaction with other dogs: it is too soon for him and will make things worse.

just wanted to highlight this advice. While I didn't force, I allowed my dog to try and have interaction with other dogs before I had a better understanding of what was going on. He too sometimes looked like he just wanted to say hi/play. but it's these mixed signals that can really cause problems. And it did make things works as nettle says.

[ChristineH]

I have a similar problem with our 50lb puggle. He just LOVES other dogs. As a matter of fact, if I am driving with him and he spots one several blocks away, he starts whining and crying so horribly that it sounds like you're trying to pull him toe nails out. Using a harness to walk him makes things a little easier, but I still don't have his full attention. Using treats to distract him also fails. While he is food driven, he is more driven by the prospect of playing with another dog.

[jacksdad]

ChristineH, does your dog take the treats at all, or does he completely ignore them? if he completely ignores them, you might still be too close to the other dogs.

If he is taking the treat, how are you giving them? are you asking for something in return such as a sit/stay/watch me or your you just giving the treat.

[ChristineH]

No he doesn't take treats at all when there's another dog involved. He is not showing any aggression, but desperately wants to play. He LOVES other dogs. As for how they are offered, at the outset of the walk I call him and tell him to sit, I hold a treat in front of my face to be sure he he is looking at me, I treat and give an enthusiastic good boy. I'll do this a few times at the outset. But if there is another dog, that dog wins over food 100% of the time. As far as being too close to other dogs, as I mentioned, he will start whining in the car if he spots one a quarter mile away. If we're walking, he could see a dog two blocks away and start whining and grunting like a pig. He goes to the dog park at least once a day and often twice and truly that is his version of heaven.

[Nettle]

Please get rid of the idea that he wants to play. Everything you describe is of a dog that is a nervous bully. Just because he has not ripped a lump out of another dog yet does not mean he is behaving in a nice way. Getting in other dogs' faces is not good dog manners.

First he needs to be secure in your protection of him.

Then he needs to encounter one well-mannered dog under control, and walk with it, parallel but separated by the owners so he walks dog-person-person-dog. Not too close to begin with.

When he can accept the presence of the other dog without launching like a moon rocket, they can be allowed to meet sideways and butt-sniff. Head on head meeting is challenging - nice dogs don't do that.

Hasten slowly - you'll both get there eventually he will be able to meet strange dogs and behave appropriately, but he isn't there yet and it will take time.

Think of his behaviour as a stranger running up to you, slapping you hard between the shoulders so you nearly fall over, giving you a bear hug, lifting you up and swinging you round - that isn't the way polite people greet, is it?

[jacksdad]

You might consider reducing your use of the dog park and take walks with your dog in places where there is plenty of space and low chance of meeting another dog. I reduced my use of dog park a WHOLE LOT in March (i think we have spent less then an hour there all month), and saw a lot of progress in my dog and his bond and trust in me and a reduction in his re-activeness to his triggers since reducing our use of dog park. Not using dog park isn't the only reason he has improved, but in my case I feel it was a big contributor.

I used to think my dog loved dog park too, but after a week of not going to dog park we popped back in for a visit. he literally looked board and asked to leave. No joke. his two signals he wants to leave is to jump on me or walk over to and look at the exit gate. he did both. he enjoys the walks in places other then dog park with just me much more. proof is when it is time to get back in the car. dog park visits, he jumps right into the car. non dog park recreation he isn't so "excited" about it ending.

your dog might be different, but something to give some thought to.

[loza123]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Today we took him around the field and set of about half 6 tonight we walked twice around , he was of his lead we was throwing the ball etc. Then a border collie came running onto the field after a bsll we got Bob onto his lead and halti, which he is doing very well with. This border collie came running up and my dog attacked him defended himself what ever you wanna call it, yet the halti snapped.

So then the owner came and throw the ball again bob was pulling towards it , the other BC brought it back and lied down, bob copied lying down aswell. We was checking with the owner how there dog was. My mum was saying how we did not know if he wanted to play or attack the other dog the other owner a man was saying that if we dont ever try how would we know. We then asked if he was insured, if there dog could run away , if he could recall his dog. The man was saying that he could and he would break it up if anything happened my mum checked again with the man. So.. we decided to let him off. Bob went running up to this dog that was lying down and started like playing bow around this dog wagging his tail etc. Next thing there fighting, the man pulls the dog of mind and stated right after that ours wanted to play and it was his dog that went for him. we asked if he was sure and he said that our definetly wanted to play, but it was his dog that started it.

So we put him back on his lead and would not stop doing circles around my mum. Then we took him home.

So i really dont know what to like think. the man said Bob wanted to play and i know dogs are normally worse on the lead then they are off.

Any suggestions?
laurenx

[dodge-white boxer]

Then he needs to encounter one well-mannered dog under control, and walk with it, parallel but separated by the owners so he walks dog-person-person-dog. Not too close to begin with.

When he can accept the presence of the other dog without launching like a moon rocket, they can be allowed to meet sideways and butt-sniff.

So,untill then a dog should not meet another dog? Will they not develope some problem with other dogs if they are never aloud to actually meet?

[jacksdad]

Any suggestions?
laurenx

Yes, stop letting your dog go up to other dogs. stop thinking he just wants to play. stop worrying about him not getting to play with other dogs. for now, every time you let your dog go up to another dog your playing with fire.

[jacksdad]

Then he needs to encounter one well-mannered dog under control, and walk with it, parallel but separated by the owners so he walks dog-person-person-dog. Not too close to begin with.

When he can accept the presence of the other dog without launching like a moon rocket, they can be allowed to meet sideways and butt-sniff.

So,until then a dog should not meet another dog? Will they not develop some problem with other dogs if they are never aloud to actually meet?

correct, if your dog can't handle being around another dog, your not teaching them anything by allowing them to approach or be approached except to be reactive/aggressive and building that behavior into a habit.

The goal is to be able to have your dog approach another dog or be approached by another either on leash or off without freaking out. Not necessarily with the goal of them going off as best friends and playing, but just so they can see/acknowledge/be around other dogs calmly. But you have to build up to it. You start off finding a safe distance which your dog can see and knows a dog is around, but does not react. that might be 10 feet, it might be a mile or anything in between. then over time you slowly close the gap. Then when you dog can handle that, you setup dog/dog greetings in a safe controlled manner, again not so that they can be best play pals, but so your dog is not out of control with fear when another dog is around. That is a simplified in a nut shell view of the goal. each dog and their fears are handled a little different. Also some dogs progress faster then others.

[loza123]

Okay thanks The thing is as soon as he sees another dog etc he will normally pull towards it tried distracting him with a ball before his in that mood of ' theres a dog!' type thing but after he will drop his ball and just focus on the other dog.

[Leigha]

'There's a dog!' doesn't always mean 'look ma, there's a dog, let's go PLAAAAY!' Sometimes it means 'grr, look dog, i'll kill you before you kill me.'