How do you feel about encouraging dog to do something

[suttonsue]

I think both Dulcie and I are pretty in tune with each other and both understand what the other is about to do. So a couple of times she has shown that she isn't happy with doing something that I would like her to do. The first thing has been the cycle attachment that I use for walking her whilst I cycle. She has been very good about it, knows where to get on and off kerbs and misses lampposts! and I'm of course between her and the cars and we only keep to quiet roads. The last couple of times she has dashed back into the house when I get the bike out and indicate I would like her to come with me so I assume that she isn't keen on it and I don't really want to do anything that isn't absolutely essential for her to do. The other thing is dog training classes. As soon as we get to the entrance she holds back. My previous posts have indicated that she isn't a happy bunny in classes, growls and lunges at any dog that gets near her whereas in other environments she will accept some dogs that come up to her when they are both on lead, others she doesn't care for. Anyway I don't really wish to get into the ins and outs of what to do in both environments, my question is would you persist or accept the dog's feelings that it is something they don't want to do. I am talking about non life threatening things here. Don't get me wrong, she will do as I ask but I don't want to push the business unnecessarily.

[Lauram]

I know what you mean, I have the same dilemmas with ours. For example when Po went to dog training, he'd do about 15 mins then drop into the 'die' (flat) position and not move, he also does this if I'm trying to yeach him something he finds hard eg leg weaving. What I do is start with things he is good at and enjoys and then catch him off guard with something I know he would otherwise 'die' to avoid and then only do this for very short periods of time, if he gets it right move on to something easy then go back.

The bike is a bit different, could you use it as a means to getting somewhere she would really enjoy? A short bike ride then a nice play session?

I think when you working closely with animals its about compromise, there are somethings they have to do and there are somethings we have to do, like it or not, they're not open for discussion its what needs to happen but for the non essentials there is a bit of room for preference and personality.

[Horace's Mum]

I have the same dilemma, in fact almost exactly the same things as you! As far as the bike goes, I am hoping to use it as a means to maintain fitness in a dog that has hip dyslplasia, so I would really like to encourage him to enjoy it. What I have noticed is that he is unsure at the start, then enjoys a run, but falls back fairly shortly after the start. So I think that the bike is actually a very different form of exercise than what they would normally do - yes, they do run around a lot more and faster than they might be on the bike, but it is on their terms rather than structured - think about a child kicking a football around all sunday afternoon versus a child training for a 5km race - similar amounts of running but the structure and mentality is different. So I have decided to take the bike right back to basics, I only use it for 5-10mins at a time, make it really easy but with a short burst of full pelt to make it fun, and strictly keeping to my dog's comfortable speed for much longer than would appear necessary.

Using the bike to go somewhere more exciting is a good idea too. But have a think about how fast you introduced it. Also, what does your dog wear when she is biking? The bike attachments should be used with a harness, but maybe her harness isn't comfortable when combined with the bike. Equally, you could spend a bit of time teaching her to "heel" to the bike, as if teaching to heel on the lead, so she learns the best place to hold herself so she doesn't get dragged at all. But make sure the speed you use is slow enough for her to maintain this position.

As for the classes, they can be very very stressful. I am trying to decided what to do for the best at the moment, but again maybe try cutting back on the time you are there - 15mins of good work before she gets too tired and stressed is better than an hour of gradually building anxiety. Work on keeping her attention on you and ignoring the other dogs, don't worry too much about actually joining in with the class if it doesn't fit in with what YOU want to achieve. I look on the classes as a challenging but controlled environment to practise distraction around other dogs, but I also move quickly if I see a dog approaching that my dog won't feel comfortable around, so keep an eye out on everything around you and keep your dog away from the others as far as possible to remove the need for her to guard herself. But have a think about why you go to the classes, if it is because you think she should be going to help her manners and socaialisation then maybe find another way to do this. If you want to work her in a challenging environment then think about cutting the lesson short. If you are trying to teach her the obedience but battling against her reactions to other dogs, then I would work on the obedience at home and work on the reactions at class or elsewhere altogether.

[suttonsue]

I originally went to classes to gain KC Good Citizen certs but she can do everything that's needed without going. Her obedience is very good, so I don't think we need to pursue it. I also liked being with like minded people and their dogs but it appears to be stressful for Dulcie. She goes to doggy day care twice a week and loves going there so she's getting socialised anyway. Similarly the bike business was to help me rather than her. I had a foot operation and found that I could cycle better and quicker than I could walk and as Dulcie needs a good walk when she's on the lead and bearing in mind her normal obedience and walking to heel, I thought the bike attachment would be a good thing and give her plenty of exercise at the same time. But as I said she now doesn't want to do it. And as I can now walk for up to 2 hours, and nearly at her pace so the bike business isn't really needed. Therefore I can't see the point of asking her to do something she doesn't want to do in situations like these two. But I'm happy to be corrected if the general consensus of opinion is that 'she shouldn't get away with anything!!'

[Mattie]

Therefore I can't see the point of asking her to do something she doesn't want to do in situations like these two. But I'm happy to be corrected if the general consensus of opinion is that 'she shouldn't get away with anything!!'

We don't think that way on here, if a dog is clearly saying that they don't want to do something like this we should listen to them.

With the cycling, you may have been going at a speed she wasn't comfortable with, when she is attached to the bike she doesn't have a choice, she has to go at the pace you have set, this may not have suited her but another pace may. There are various reasons why she doesn't want to be with you on a bike.

Many dogs find that they can't cope with the amount of dogs in training classes, this isn't a good way to socialise dogs because again they have no choice, they can't get away from them to were they feel safe.

In one of Victoria's programs a dog was supposed to enjoy day care, Victoria explained to the owners that their dog wasn't enjoying and found it very stressful which added to her problems. What to us may seem that a dog is enjoying themselves may in fact be a stressed dog trying to cope. There is a information on a dog's body language in the articles section, well worth looking at so you can understand what your dog is telling you better. I learnt a lot from it.

[suttonsue]

Yes Mattie I thought it would be like that. That's why I put it in quotation marks. I believe in listening, hence my original post. I have also carefully monitored Dulcie at day care. She is sooo excited when we are travelling there and when she's there, there are signs of insecurity initially, i.e. hackles raised, barking as she goes in as if to say I'm here, take notice of what I'm like! Then she pals up with a couple of dogs and will happily be in the pack going from field to field and chasing balls with the others without any sign of holding back or aggression if two go for the same ball. When I collect her, she has usually been washed and is at the field gate hoping to get through to join the others again whose owners come later, and are still playing. I have seen an episode of IMOTD where a dog went to DDC and yes you could see the anxiety in him. Dulcie displays none of this, apart from the initial introductions, but she does show anxiety at classes often drooling when she isn't lunging and barking at other dogs. I gave up classes for 6 months and during this time she went to DDC following my foot op. I had hoped that DDC socialisation would help her in training classes but this has not happened. So I shall probably stop the training classes for good.

I realise that I could probably train the dislike of cycling by starting from scratch but that wasn't really my question. It isn't essential, she has tried it a few times and she has shown her reluctance to doing it, so is there any point in pursuing it. Or would you always try to train reluctance out?

[Noobs]

If you don't care whether she goes on the bike again, then it's probably no use pursuing it. But if you think it's worth it, and you desensitize slooooooowly, then I do think you can "train" reluctance out. It's like desensitizing to nail clippers and the like.

I would dump the classes, too. What's the use? The structure of the classes might be what's making her anxious.

[Mattie]

At doggy day care she is free to run away if she feels threatened, in training classes she is on the lead and can't. I had a bad experience at training class with one of mine so I never take any of the now. I have 4 dogs so socialising isn't a problem and they are well mannered and do as I ask even though they are hooligans as well.

I wouldn't bother with the bike rides for her, there are things we have to get them used to but this isn't one of them. I wish there were more people like you who do consider the dog's feelings.

[Horace's Mum]

Yep, if neither of them are necessary then I would just move on. The cycling could probably be sorted with a bit of time but if you don't need to then why bother? And as for the classes, if you don't feel you need them, and are happy with her obedience and your ability to train, then I would certainly leave that too. Jut enjoy your dog!!

[Noobs]

I took my dog to classes (the prong collar yank-and-train type, my mistake) and he did much better after I decided to socialize him myself, train him myself, teach him obedience and tricks...and my dog- and cat-owner friends say he's the most well-behaved animal they've ever met.

Of course, they've never met some of the brilliant folks here and their dogs, so I look pretty good to them.

Suttonsue, do your best, do what you think is right and comfortable to your dog, and you're well on your way. Mattie's right, you're taking your dog's feelings into consideration and that's very important and commendable.

[suttonsue]

Thank you for your comments. As a side issue, there is also a dog who has just started at training classes who was a brood *****, in a family environment but with a pack. She also demonstrates anxiety at the class, also barking and lunging at other dogs so I take your point that dogs off lead in a pack can be well socialised but put them into a disciplined, leashed environment and they are totally different.

So we forget classes and bikes and enjoy our walks. She is the most loving dog and I wouldn't want to upset the bond we have. Thanks for your input.