Hi Everyone,
My problem is this: my very irresponsible brother got a pit bull puppy even though he did not have a permanent place to live or any real dog training/raising experience. I live at home because I just recently graduated from college and am trying to find a job and save up some money before moving out, and now all of a sudden he's back because he couldn't pay his rent. At home, we have a cat and an older dog - a 60lb mixed-breed spayed female who is about 12 years old. The cat and older dog, Annie, get along great and even sleep together. The pit bull is a non-spayed female, about 5 months old. She weighs about 38 lbs. She is a relatively well-behaved little thing, very submissive to humans, and seems pretty smart. Annie is very used to being the top dog since she's been the only dog for about 4 years and was pretty much the boss of our other dog who passed away 4 years ago. Annie is also somewhat hard of hearing (although she always manages to hear the refrigerator door) and she suffers from mild arthritis. She does not want to play with puppy or share with puppy, whose name is Kendra.
They've been together for about a week and I think Annie has just realized that Kendra will be around long-term now due to her behavior. For example, Annie hates the green, minty dog breath bones, so I gave one to Kendra thinking that it wouldn't cause a fight since Annie doesn't like them. Well, a few hours after Kendra had played with the bone and chewed it a little, Annie walked over to her and took it and ate the whole thing. (In the past, she refused them when I gave them to her). Kendra walked over to check out what was going on and Annie growled at her, so Kendra backed off. Kendra tried to get Annie to play with her, sticking her butt in the air and prancing around, but Annie just ate the bone, growling if Kendra got too close. Then, today, I went to put more dog food into the doggie bowl (which they share) and Kendra ran over and started gulping it down. Annie walked over and started to eat, not growling or pushing or anything, and Kendra growled, snarled, and bit at Annie. Luckily I was right there and pulled her away before she could hurt Annie, and then I held her and distracted her until Annie had finished eating before allowing her back to the food. She had food twice before earlier today and ate a good amount, so I know she wasn't starving, and she has never (to my knowledge) been deprived of food.
Annie is never mean and will never bite or harm Kendra or any other dog, as she is very friendly and is only reacting to the annoyance of the new puppy invading her once peaceful life. I know that pit bulls are good dogs, just like any other dog, and happen to have a bad reputation due to some awful owners' treatment of them. I also know that since they were bred for dogfighting, they are genetically predisposed to wanting to fight, etc. However, Kendra is only a puppy, so I haven't thought it necessary to separate her from Annie just yet... and hopefully my brother will move out before she reaches adulthood. But what should I do until then to make sure she doesn't hurt Annie if Annie tries to eat food with her or steal her toys or something? She is strong enough to inflict harm on Annie, even just by jumping. How should I teach her to be nice? I did not punish her for the food incident because I didn't want to cause any more problems, but should I have? Should I have held her back from the food area until Annie had finished like I did? Should they be separated when they eat? Annie is accustomed to an automatic feeder. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thanks very much!
new puppy mean to old dog
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Hiya
Really to be effective, it is your older dog who needs to teach the pup what is and isnt acceptable behaviour. Sure you can control the pup when you are there, but when you arent.. (obviously its common sense to seperate them when you arent).
Make sure there are as few reasons as possible for puppy to be horrible, feed them seperately (you should never have dogs sharing the same bowl at the same time, that really IS asking for dogs to fight).
When you play with them make sure there are lots of toys on offer rather than just one to argue over (even if it means buying two or three of the same toy!).
Ditto treats... if you have two dogs and you dont want a row the best way is to have THREE treats or chews. It wont guarantee no arguments but its infinately better than one chew between 2 dogs.
Other than this, training training training.
Puppy needs training to teach her how to get on in the world - lots of positive training, check out the clicker training thread that is stickied at the top of the board. If shes busy working for you (and hopefully her owner), then she cant be busy irritating yoru older dog.
Older dog needs training so she has quality time with you, so she isnt bored adn so she doesnt feel left out. If you increase her confidence (being submissive to people sounds to me like shes not the most confident dog in the world) she may then have the confidence to tell the puppy to Back Off!
If she DOES want to tell puppy to back off, you must let her, you will cause no end of trouble if you prevent her from doing this. Obviously dont let her harm the pup, but bear in mind that the day she DOES roar at the puppy and even snap at her, the puppy will probably scream as if shes had her legs bitten off. Thats normal, its shock!
Hth
Em
Really to be effective, it is your older dog who needs to teach the pup what is and isnt acceptable behaviour. Sure you can control the pup when you are there, but when you arent.. (obviously its common sense to seperate them when you arent).
Make sure there are as few reasons as possible for puppy to be horrible, feed them seperately (you should never have dogs sharing the same bowl at the same time, that really IS asking for dogs to fight).
When you play with them make sure there are lots of toys on offer rather than just one to argue over (even if it means buying two or three of the same toy!).
Ditto treats... if you have two dogs and you dont want a row the best way is to have THREE treats or chews. It wont guarantee no arguments but its infinately better than one chew between 2 dogs.
Other than this, training training training.
Puppy needs training to teach her how to get on in the world - lots of positive training, check out the clicker training thread that is stickied at the top of the board. If shes busy working for you (and hopefully her owner), then she cant be busy irritating yoru older dog.
Older dog needs training so she has quality time with you, so she isnt bored adn so she doesnt feel left out. If you increase her confidence (being submissive to people sounds to me like shes not the most confident dog in the world) she may then have the confidence to tell the puppy to Back Off!
If she DOES want to tell puppy to back off, you must let her, you will cause no end of trouble if you prevent her from doing this. Obviously dont let her harm the pup, but bear in mind that the day she DOES roar at the puppy and even snap at her, the puppy will probably scream as if shes had her legs bitten off. Thats normal, its shock!
Hth
Em
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Lis & Addy
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:27 pm
Why are the five-month-old puppy and the 12-year-old dog eating from the same bowl? They should each have their own bowl and their own food. A growing puppy and a senior citizen dog don't have similar nutrition needs. Also, a dog being off its feed is often the first apparent sign of illness; if you don't know who eats what normally, it's hard to tell quickly if one of them is off her feed.
It sounds like you're free-feeding them--food always available? That's also a bad idea--appropriate for young puppies, but even the puppy is too old for that now.
This doesn't address your other issues, but I think you need to re-examine how you're handling the food situation.
It sounds like you're free-feeding them--food always available? That's also a bad idea--appropriate for young puppies, but even the puppy is too old for that now.
This doesn't address your other issues, but I think you need to re-examine how you're handling the food situation.
Thank you so much for your advice! Annie (the older one) is actually really confident and growls at the puppy and barks when the puppy does something she doesn't like. The puppy is the one who is lacking in confidence, but only around people, not other dogs. She's friendly but shy I guess and rolls over on her back anytime someone new walks near her. The puppy was eating Annie's food that day because my brother ran out of food and I didn't want the puppy to go hungry. The puppy isn't really that rambunctious and is getting to where she mostly ignores Annie, which is good. I separated their food areas, like you guys suggested, so hopefully that will work out.
Why is it bad for Annie to always have food available? She isn't overweight and has always been fed that way. Wouldn't it be better to stick with what she's used to? I don't want her to feel like I'm withholding food if all of a sudden she can only eat when I say so. I'm asking out of curiosity, not to be argumentative.
Thank you again for all your advice.
Why is it bad for Annie to always have food available? She isn't overweight and has always been fed that way. Wouldn't it be better to stick with what she's used to? I don't want her to feel like I'm withholding food if all of a sudden she can only eat when I say so. I'm asking out of curiosity, not to be argumentative.
Thank you again for all your advice.
Its very unnatural for dogs (or indeed any of us) to have food just there, it means dogs will sometimes guard the resource, either proactively by warning people off it, or by saving it for a time when they really need it...
Either thing means the dog isnt eating properly.
For dogs, food is really important and they would have it perhaps once a day, perhaps not even that, and to get it would require loads of work.
Give them a food bar topped up whenever its running low and you can run into problems.
One of the most obvious ones is that you dont know how much the dog has eaten that day, or the previous day.... some kinds of kibble dogs will pick out hte best bits nad leave the rest, which prevents a dog getting a good balanced diet.
For a pup it will hamper toilet training, because there is no set meal time then theres no set toilet time either!
Finally, if a dog has access to food all day long, then getting them to work for their food is often quite hard, why shoudl they? its there all the time.
Em
Either thing means the dog isnt eating properly.
For dogs, food is really important and they would have it perhaps once a day, perhaps not even that, and to get it would require loads of work.
Give them a food bar topped up whenever its running low and you can run into problems.
One of the most obvious ones is that you dont know how much the dog has eaten that day, or the previous day.... some kinds of kibble dogs will pick out hte best bits nad leave the rest, which prevents a dog getting a good balanced diet.
For a pup it will hamper toilet training, because there is no set meal time then theres no set toilet time either!
Finally, if a dog has access to food all day long, then getting them to work for their food is often quite hard, why shoudl they? its there all the time.
Em
OK, I see the reasoning here. I feel guilty for letting Annie eat the way she has her whole life. I just thought it was nicer for her to be able to eat whenever she felt hungry, but that's probably not how she felt about it. 
On the plus side, I think she must be a genius since she was easily toilet-trained and hasn't had any problems in training!
New question pertaining to this: How do I convince Annie to eat her senior dog food and puppy to eat her puppy food? I fed them at the same time today, but they kept going back and forth to each others' food bowls. At one point, each dog was at the others' bowl. I keep them in separate rooms but there is no door... both seemed to think it was a totally awesome game to escape and eat the other's food. Nobody fought though. Alas, Annie has not been a puppy for so long I have forgotten how to train/handle puppies!
On the plus side, I think she must be a genius since she was easily toilet-trained and hasn't had any problems in training! New question pertaining to this: How do I convince Annie to eat her senior dog food and puppy to eat her puppy food? I fed them at the same time today, but they kept going back and forth to each others' food bowls. At one point, each dog was at the others' bowl. I keep them in separate rooms but there is no door... both seemed to think it was a totally awesome game to escape and eat the other's food. Nobody fought though. Alas, Annie has not been a puppy for so long I have forgotten how to train/handle puppies!
Feed one outside?
My dogs like to play swapses, they will rush through their dinners and then half way through, zoom around sampling everyone elses dinner, often missing out on the larger remaining portion of their own dinner in their haste to pinch the last morsel of someone elses.
I generally stop it by standing there and saying 'ah ah', and that puts an end to it.
My elderly saluki girl has to eat in peace on her own though, because although she will defend her meals with a growl, she will then stand there as the smaller dogs completely ignore her and scoff her meals.
Since shes old and needs her food with her supplements in, i cant let that happen.
If you get some dog crates like i said on your other post you could teach them that the crates are a nice place to go because they eat their meals in there.
As for why they want to eat each others, its like kids really.. imagine two young brothers aged about 4 years old..... they both reckon what the other has is better, regardless of if it really is or not!
Dogs are just hairy toddlers!
Em
My dogs like to play swapses, they will rush through their dinners and then half way through, zoom around sampling everyone elses dinner, often missing out on the larger remaining portion of their own dinner in their haste to pinch the last morsel of someone elses.
I generally stop it by standing there and saying 'ah ah', and that puts an end to it.
My elderly saluki girl has to eat in peace on her own though, because although she will defend her meals with a growl, she will then stand there as the smaller dogs completely ignore her and scoff her meals.
Since shes old and needs her food with her supplements in, i cant let that happen.
If you get some dog crates like i said on your other post you could teach them that the crates are a nice place to go because they eat their meals in there.
As for why they want to eat each others, its like kids really.. imagine two young brothers aged about 4 years old..... they both reckon what the other has is better, regardless of if it really is or not!
Dogs are just hairy toddlers!
Em
