Help! Problem with Dodger just appeared quickly, and badly!

[spydre]

I found out about a behavior that my youngest has been doing with Dodger (which I was formerly unaware) when playing with him, and that was if Dodger had his ball, my youngest would essentially hit the ball out of his mouth - using something else, poke the side of it so that it fell out of Dodger's mouth, and the boy could throw it for him again. Unfortunately, (and also quite predictably) this resulted in Dodger becoming very guarded with his toys at times - rather than playing sometimes, he would go sit on his futon with whichever toy was in his mouth. He would even lay his head on my lap like he wanted to give it to me, but not let me have it until he dropped it. This resulted in me getting bit a few weeks ago because I stupidly tried to take something out of his mouth that he shouldn't have had (I think it was tin foil). Dodger had also been getting very "guardy" over the kitchen trash can - I would take the bag out of the trash and give it to one of the kids to take out, but he didn't like it if the kids would try to get the bag out. Well, it all came to a head tonight. Our oldest son went to scrape his plate into the trash (admittedly, the trash was close to full) and Dodger snapped at him. I couldn't get the dog away from the can (he'd taken to licking the can) in order to scrape the plate, so I called my husband in. I got the plate scraped no problem. But when I went to take the bag out (my husband was still dealing with Dodger so I could do this), Dodger went after my husband. The skin was not broken, but Dodger got him pretty good. My husband says as much as it would break his heart, if his hand is broken (which is a possibility), we would have to give Dodger up. I'm hoping it's not broken, and I don't feel right about giving him up when he didn't come to us with this problem. I'm hoping that anyone can give me recommendations on any decent dog training facilities in the St. Louis Metro area (we actually live in Illinois, but St. Louis is about 15 - 20 miles away), so we can get this problem dealt with. I don't want to have to give up my dog, and he's the sweetest thing under normal circumstances, but we have to manage this thing - we can't have him trying to attack the kids when they are throwing something away or taking the trash out (and for the record, my kids are 15 and 13).

[emmabeth]

Ok you know roughly how/why this behaviour has occurred so thats a head start.

I can't help with a trainer, not being from the area (or the continent!), but until you find a trainer its imperative that you manage things so that this doesnt happen again.

Whether that means you dont allow Dodger into the room where the trash can is 'loose' (ie walk him through on the leash but not in there free), or you move the trashcan elsewhere, depends on you and your home.

Definately, no kids playing games with him and his toys for now and no trying to remove anything from his mouth.

Go back to playing swapsies - really boring items, in exchange for really really great treats. If he does gain access to the trashcan or to something you dont want him to have, get up EVERYONE leave the room and you offer him ANYTHING that means he will let go of the item or leave the trashcan. If thats a treat, or a walk, or a ride in the car, whatever... do it. Anything is better than another confrontation that results in a bite.

I do think you need to see someone, try doing a search here http://www.apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx for APDT trainers near you.

If you manage this well, it should not get any worse but do please make sure that your husband and your kids do not do anything to attempt to punish Dodger for this behaviour as this really will make things worse. Even if it means the kids dont have to do their normal chores like putting the trash out, do it - explain that this is Dodgers life at stake here, its not worth any clever ideas like the one about poking the toy out of his mouth with a stick....

[spydre]

Thank you, Emma.

The good news is, his hand isn't broken. Now that the pain is simmering down a bit, my husband says it all feels muscular, rather than the bone in his thumb.

As soon as the incident happened, the kitchen trash can went out on the enclosed back porch. He normally doesn't have this type of reaction to the other trash cans, because they don't contain garbage, just paper type trash, or from emptying ashtrays, etc.

Another thing, his mood since the incident has been very guarded. Yes, he brought his toy to us (his current favorite, at least, but didn't want to give it to us, so he just got petted instead). Yes, I think he knows he did something wrong. He's calm right now, though. And we told the boys, immediately after his happened that things were going to change, starting tonight. Basically, my husband is of the opinion of the boys, particularly the younger one, can't show the dog respect when he plays with the dog, the dog should go back, and we shouldn't have a dog. I agree to that point, so we are going to make sure that the behavior of my 13 year old is not repeated. The poor dog was in an abusive situation the first 8 months of his life, and has been on trial adoptions twice before we got him. I don't want to put him through anything he shouldn't have to go through.

Thank you for the link. There is one person on there for my area, and I also found one or two more in my area that deal with behavior problems, some even in home. Basically, it's going to all fall down to the methods used (thank goodness our income tax rebate comes in tomorrow) which will probably decide which trainer we use. And, if we are going to be doing behavior issues, we might as well tackle Dodger's fear of gloves as well - particularly men wearing gloves - even my father in law has issues with Dodger when he's wearing his gloves, as Dodger displayed yesterday. Gloves were in my father in law's pockets, no problem; gloves were on, Dodger started growling.

A side note: we did end up having to toss Dodger's futon "bed" that he had here in the den. It folded up and he sat on it to look out the window. Well, it got worn in places from whatever (had gone through one dog before Dodger), so Dodger figured out it was something that could be destroyed like a toy. We got it out before Dodger actually ate any of the foam, but no one believed me that when Dodger started moving it, he was trying to tear it up. Boy, were they surprised when he tore into it last night! So of course, he was pouty today because he can't have his den "bed" back! Evidently looking out the window isn't the same when you have to stand on your feet to do it.

[emmabeth]

I can see your husbands point, but unfortunately whilst for the boys it may be a useful and very severe consequence of their actions for Dodger it could have far longer reaching implications - that said, if he bites someone severely that definitely will too.

Presumably both boys know now how serious things are, though I can appreciate especially with a 13 year old.... you say something and its in one ear and out the other in seconds!

If you can find Dodger something comfy for in his den, that you can make smell of him (And of you guys too if possible) that wouldnt be a bad idea, as his previous bed was probably full of smells that made him feel secure.

I doubt he knows what he did was 'wrong' in the terms humans understand but I am sure he knows that something unpleasant has gone on, if nothing else but from your reactions and that certain things and routines have changed.

Do try to limit the 'abnormality' as much as possible whilst still avoiding any situation that might cause someone to confront him, or cause him to feel the need to guard something. The side effects of routines and things changing and behaviour that previously worked no longer working are potentially quite bad - have a look at my blog entry here http://positively.com/2010/01/14/the-im ... ing-wrong/ to see what i mean and understand some of the things Dodger may be feeling. THats obviously not to say you must just allow him to do as he pleases, but being aware that suddenly changing things might make him feel depressed or anxious should give you a heads up and a head start as to how hes feeling.

[Horace's Mum]

Another thing, his mood since the incident has been very guarded. Yes, he brought his toy to us (his current favorite, at least, but didn't want to give it to us, so he just got petted instead). Yes, I think he knows he did something wrong. He's calm right now, though.

I know what you mean about his mood being guarded, but a lot of that is probably coming form the humans around him - however hard you try you will be very wary of moving around him and will be watching him carefully, and he will notice. It was one of the hardest things when Horus had had a go at one of us to just go back and carry on as normal - sometimes it would take me weeks to be able to act normally around him again, however hard I tried to let bygones be bygones. Sadly that usually meant that Horus was also on edge for several weeks because he knew I was and didn't know why.

He doesn't know HE has done something wrong, but he knows SOMETHING is wrong and he's not sure what to do about it. So while you implement the new rules to keep everyone safe, try and act as normally as possible at all other times, and make sure everyone understands the new rules about the bin and food and toys. It's no good coming up with rules that would work but not telling everyone until you are in the situation you need to use them. If you are in any doubt about what he might do in a given situation (for example, maybe one of the kids needs to carry a plate of food out or put the dishes in the kitchen) then encourage the family to say out loud what they are about to do, and then ask everyone to sit still while you quietly put Dodger's lead on, and then let them move.

BIIIIIIG Hugs, I know how you feel and it is a horrible thing to experience, but with a few simple rule changes and being stricter (!) with how the kids handle and interact with him, this doesn't need to turn into a permanent fixture. The important thing now is to make sure Dodger never gets the opportunity to guard food or toys again, but changing the way you do things, while working on swapping and rewarding to help him relax about toys being taken off him again.

And if he does get hold of something you don't want him to have, if it is safe to leave it then leave it, otherwise as Em said, do anything you possibly can to distract him away from it and then remove it - don't get into a discusison with him, he will win. I keep some really yummy special treats readily available in the kitchen for this purpose - if we are near the kitchen then he will drop it immediately to get his treat (which I throw to the other end of the room so I can pick up the contraband safely) and if we are in another room then I run out and he runs out following me and carrying the contraband which he will then drop.

[Mattie]

Teenage boys, they should hibinate until they are at least 21, they think teasing dogs is funny and don't see any danger in it. I had something similar with my teenage boys, when I found out I blew my top with them which isn't very nice. They were told that if they had ruined my dog it would be then that would go into care not my dog, he hadn't done anything wrong. If I caught them teasing the dog again, all privileges would stop for at least 6 months, maybe longer if they done anything wrong in this time, and his trip to France would be off, it may be off anyway after what he had done to my dog.

Dodger can be turned round with the right work and management.

[Fundog]

Teenage boys (and girls) can be trained too-- however, it is much easier if they are trained properly from birth. I happen to have teenage boys: The younger one (14 now) has been the girls' official groomer for a number of years now. Both of my boys are very kind, respectful, and courteous to animals. Of course, we had a cat long before either of them was even born, so they were taught from birth how to behave around their "little furry big brother." (In fact, the cat actually helped them learn to crawl, by sitting just out of reach and waving his tail at them, then just when they thought they could grab that tail, he would move forward one step again.) Both of my boys are also unusually responsible-- they both get themselves up on time for school, get ready without any prodding, pack their own lunches, make sure they have all of the supplies they need, and get out to the bus stop in time, quite often before I even get home from work. They have chores to do, and they do them, reliably, with very little nagging. They do their homework, with no reminders. It is all about training, and the way they were raised. Ironically, both of my boys are strong advocates of spanking-- even though they themselves have received very few spankings in their lifetimes. Get the humans trained right, and the dogs are a piece of cake!

[Mattie]

Nettle my boys were brought up with dogs and horses, they were always very good with them as children but when they became teenagers they thought it funny to tease the dog because they didn't think it was cruel as they weren't deliberately hurting him. Like yours mine got themselves up and ready for school, when we went away they got everything ready themselves etc. Sometimes teenagers don't think.

[Nettle]

That was Fundog not me. I take my hat off to anyone who can train humans - I can't

[Mattie]

Ooops sorry Nettle, my brain isn't working properly at the moment.

[Fundog]

"Sometimes teenagers don't think."

That's very true, Mattie. I suppose if ALL teenagers would do more thinking, I wouldn't have a job. I have a job because so many teenagers don't think-- AT ALL.