I’d be grateful to hear what you think is going on here, and the best thing to do about it:
My lurcher, R, and I walk regularly with a Golden Retriever, S, who is Caesar Millan-ed at home. We met S at a time when R and I were recovering from the trauma of a 2-dog attack on R, leaving her bitten and me with a broken ankle.
At the time S was being CM-ed, having been 'barked at' by a greyhound, which caused her to 'dislike greyhounds'.
S’s mum and I have been resocialising our dogs carefully over a couple of months, using the method emmabeth advocates. We have now got to the stage where R and S can meet each other offlead and walk together for about an hour and a half. They meet with tails and ears relaxed. They sniff both ends and set off doing doggy things. Once we reached the stage of both dogs being comfortable offlead together, S’s mum and I have been somewhat hands-off as we were aware that any nervousness on our part (from R and I being attacked, and S being ‘barked at’ by the greyhound) would transfer to our dogs.
Having met politely, S will then shadow R during the whole walk. S uses Big Body Language and a certain amount of staring to claim ‘her’ space. R sidles past - not fearful I don't think, but deferential (I'm only little, I only want to sniff this grass, you can stand there, I'll go round the long way).
If the dogs are near when S is claiming her space, I might walk straight at S and interrupt her mind games by pushing her out of the way with my legs, but usually they are several yards away.
Although R does not seem cowed by S, she is submissive and I'd say she was being restricted by S's claiming a space such as a gateway, bridge, gap etc where she will stand like Boadacea with tail up and make R find a way around. The restricted areas (gaps) in question are not part of the route, but something like a gap in the hedge where R has gone through to check the other side. S will stand sentry at this gap, forcing R to find an alternative way back.
A couple of times now R has shown her teeth when S has adopted this You-May-Not-Pass pose. Yesterday she couldn't find her way around S, as she usually would, because there was a barbed wire fence. S wouldn't move, so R launched herself with handbag flying, causing S to leap back nonplussed. No physical harm done, just a burst of noise. S did not retaliate, she backed off and behaved herself - for a while!
S's Mum maintains that S is shadowing R to get her to play running about games. To my mind, though, S's shadowing of R is not about initiating a chase. To me it's more a case of "I'm walking beside you to let you know that you can go over there, but not over here, because over here belongs to me".
On balance I think that R gains more than she loses with these walks. When we were recovering from our attack she was very fearful of other dogs, and she has gained confidence walking with S. 6 months ago she would have bolted for home if another dog looked at her. If anything, I have taken R's 'standing up' to S as a sign that she is recovering confidence. She goes forward to greet S when they first meet rather than shrinking back. She isn't clingy on the walks, she doesn't hide behind me.
It is hurtful to me to see R continually deferring to S, but I realise that’s a very human reaction and not necessarily how R sees the situation herself.
R is 8 years old and S is 6. Both are spayed. S is walked 3 times a day and fit as far as I know. S has a reputation for being ‘nosey’ – i.e. a busybody interfering with other dogs. She is regularly put in her place by other dogs at her training class/brawl and severely CM-ed by dad, although mum is more interested in understanding her behaviour.
The question is: should we remain hands-off and let them sort out their relationship/hierarchy?
Many thanks in advance
How hands-on/off should we be with this situation?
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As I can't see either dog's body language I can only make a guess as to what is going on. One of the possiblities is that as S is being bullied continually, she is trying to bully R just because she can.
With my own dogs I don't allow them to behave like that, if one tries to stop another from going anywhere I distract them, the other dog then has the choice to go where they want without being bullied. It has to be a distraction and not a correction because to the dog she isn't doing anything wrong but behaving as others do to her. I find that by distracting the dog soon stops this behaviour as well as the dog isn't gaining anything.
This can escalate if not dealt with correctly, R has already stood up to S, this can solve the problem with some dogs but with others it can make the problem worse. I prefer to stop anything that may look as if it will develop into a problem, once a problem it is much harder to stop.
With my own dogs I don't allow them to behave like that, if one tries to stop another from going anywhere I distract them, the other dog then has the choice to go where they want without being bullied. It has to be a distraction and not a correction because to the dog she isn't doing anything wrong but behaving as others do to her. I find that by distracting the dog soon stops this behaviour as well as the dog isn't gaining anything.
This can escalate if not dealt with correctly, R has already stood up to S, this can solve the problem with some dogs but with others it can make the problem worse. I prefer to stop anything that may look as if it will develop into a problem, once a problem it is much harder to stop.
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I think you have a pretty good handle on what is going on, although as Mattie says.... what S's owners do at home wrt 'CM; type methods is highly likely causing some fall out elsewhere..
See how things go, it may be that now R has told S where she can stick it as far as bullying in situations like that goes, S will be a bit more respectful/polite.
I think you are right to carefully distract/deflect potentially conflict situations the way you are doing currently and it does sound as if R is building up her confidence (or shed not have told S with a teethyface to back off!).
If you can... mix R with some easier going dogs so things arent too intense (unless you already are doing this!) for her, and I would attempt to lead S's owners towards more um, nice, methods.
See how things go, it may be that now R has told S where she can stick it as far as bullying in situations like that goes, S will be a bit more respectful/polite.
I think you are right to carefully distract/deflect potentially conflict situations the way you are doing currently and it does sound as if R is building up her confidence (or shed not have told S with a teethyface to back off!).
If you can... mix R with some easier going dogs so things arent too intense (unless you already are doing this!) for her, and I would attempt to lead S's owners towards more um, nice, methods.
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Thank you Mattie and emmabeth for wading through my long post
Thanks again for the input.
xx
yes, I think this is correct. S's dad is particularly keen on the more spectacular CM corrections. Mum is not so bad.Mattie wrote:One of the possiblities is that as S is being bullied continually, she is trying to bully R just because she can.
interesting point.It has to be a distraction and not a correction because to the dog she isn't doing anything wrong but behaving as others do to her.
it certainly made a difference at the time!emmabeth wrote:See how things go, it may be that now R has told S where she can stick it as far as bullying in situations like that goes, S will be a bit more respectful/polite.
we do walk with two delightful Westies Unfortunately the owner is a bird-brain, but you can't have everythingIf you can... mix R with some easier going dogs so things arent too intense
I'll work on mum. She takes S to training classes, which shows willingness to learn but I'm not sure what methods they use there. I may try to lurk and see.I would attempt to lead S's owners towards more um, nice, methods.
Thanks again for the input.
xx