timid puppy

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:42 pm

i have a weimaraner ,she is 5 months old ,and we socialized her as much as we could,the problem is she is very submissive and submits to just about any dog and acts terrified of them ,no matter the size of dog either ,could be a chihauha or a great dane she acts the same way , she does well with our other dog at home but she submits automatically to a strange dog, question is, is this normal?and will she grow out of this? any help would be greatly appreciated

Smillin'Sammy · Post by **Smillin'Sammy** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:25 pm

I can't say whether or not it's normal, but I will say that she will probably grow out of it. If she doesn't, tell your vet about the behavior next time you see them. It could be a psychological thing/medical problem. Or she may just be a submissive dog.

Socialization in one-on-one situations will probably help. Try getting a friend with a small, friendly dog to interact with her in your yard one-on-one. Treat her and give her lots of praise if she doesn't act timid. Don't give her praise if she's aggressive.

That's my only advice, I'm sure others will help. At least she's not aggressive towards other dogs.

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:51 pm

i appreciate the help, i had another weim before that was a female and she never had this problem ,and she was probably less socialized,but shes normal with everything else ,shes great with people ,just kinda annoying when im trying to get her to play with a friends dog ,any how thanks for the reply

ckranz · Post by **ckranz** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:00 am

Depending upon where the introductions are made, on or off leash, proximaty of other dogs will all have a great influence on your dog's reaction to meetng another dog.

Past history would also be helpful:
Has she ever had any bad experiences meeting other dog (She reacted aggressively, or another dog was aggressive to her)?
How often and how long are your normal socializations?
Are you trying to force her to play with other dog...perhaps she'd prefer to play games with you?

Also at 5 months she is still a puppy. Puppies have fear stages they go through as apart of growing up. Not sure exactly when they start but I believe there are a total of 3 fear stages before a pup turns 18 months.

Last but not least, there could also be a genetic component. She may be more timid. Good positive based training can help to minimize this but she may always be a little timid and need extra patience, love and guidence.

Nettle · Post by **Nettle** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:09 am

Yes it's normal. She's saying "Don't hurt me, I'm only a puppy". It's good dog manners, and providing she isn't spayed too soon (or at all) she will grow out of it.

Like people, some dogs are bolder than others. This dog you have now is different from your past dog, so don't waste energy making comparisons.

The more well-mannered dogs you can introduce her to, the better. Size is irrelevant because although we have bred dogs to be vastly different sizes, in their heads they are all "generic dog" size.

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:33 am

Thanks every one for the replies, so how long should play dates last? And should they be on neutral ground or in my home,don't get me wrong I would never put her in a dangerous situation,ill always do what is best for her.

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:37 am

Also my vet recommends her to be spayed at 6 months,is that too soon Since she displays this behavior?

Nettle · Post by **Nettle** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:32 am

What happens on a 'play date'?

Interactions are better on neutral territory. Then if everything gets too much for her, you can take her away, which is more difficult at home. Also home remains the safest place because it doesn't smell of the visiting dog.

I'd say wait until after the first season for spaying, and after a year old if you possibly can. A lot of growing up goes on in that time.

You are doing fine

she is only young and you can't put old heads on young shoulders.

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:48 pm

Well she starts off ok when we socialize her with other dogs on play dates ,then as soon as the other dog advances towards her she goes belly up and just lays there,then shell get up and come hide behind me and my wife As if she is scared,sometimes shell stay wagging her tail ,or what's left of it ,and other times it curls up and she runs ,she's great with people ,that's why I don't understand why she's like this with other dogs, I don't know if that there's any relationship between the two interactions or not,guess that's what I'm trying to figure out

Nettle · Post by **Nettle** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:29 pm

Nothing wrong - my pup is 10 months old and submits at the first sign of hostility. It's what keeps puppies alive!

What happens after she has submitted?

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:45 pm

Well normally she just lays there till the dog leaves her alone ,that's when shell get up and run away from the other dog and hide behind me or my wife,some times she acts like she wants to play and then cowers awayjust as fast as she can,I just didn't see this coming ,the mother and father seemed nothing like this when I got her from the breeder,they both seemed like they were pretty confident weims

Smillin'Sammy · Post by **Smillin'Sammy** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:12 pm

tigerz0202 wrote:Well normally she just lays there till the dog leaves her alone ,that's when shell get up and run away from the other dog and hide behind me or my wife,some times she acts like she wants to play and then cowers awayjust as fast as she can,I just didn't see this coming ,the mother and father seemed nothing like this when I got her from the breeder,they both seemed like they were pretty confident weims

Then talk to the breeder about it. They will know better than we will, probably. She does seem very timid, but just bear with her and use positive reinforcement to help her find other dogs less scary.

ckranz · Post by **ckranz** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:38 am

tigerz0202 wrote:Well she starts off ok when we socialize her with other dogs on play dates ,then as soon as the other dog advances towards her she goes belly up and just lays there,then shell get up and come hide behind me and my wife As if she is scared,sometimes shell stay wagging her tail ,or what's left of it ,and other times it curls up and she runs ,she's great with people ,that's why I don't understand why she's like this with other dogs, I don't know if that there's any relationship between the two interactions or not,guess that's what I'm trying to figure out

Describe what you mean by ok at the start? You and the other dog and owner arrive at your play date. At what point exactly does she start showing shyness. Be as descriptive as possible. As you approach is she licking her lips a lot, yawning, sniffing at the ground (this would be prior to laying belly up). If she is doing any of these she is NOT allright at the start. Something about the situation is putting a lot of stress on her. Back off until you have sufficient space that she if comfortable, but is able to notice the other pup. Play look at that and reward for looking at the other pup. Everytime she looks a good thing happens.

Slowly move 1 to 2 steps closer and repeat.

Spend no more tha 5 minutes working on this at a stretch and then take a 10 minute play break (you playing with your pup) Keep all interaction with other dogs short and positive. This will help to build confidence and work through her fear stages. Be supportive.

tigerz0202 · Post by **tigerz0202** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:07 pm

well what i mean by ok at the start ,when i introduce her to another dog say on neutral territory shell start by acting as if she wants to play with the dog or check the dog out ,shes almost dragging me to get to the dog ,but then when they actually interact with each other she goes belly up and submits right away ,and wont stand up to play with the other dog ,shell just lay there either until the dog is finished checking her out or i pull her away and try to start over,i try to keep a little tension on her leash to keep her on her feet to show her its ok to stand up and greet another dog and play with another dog ,but usually in the end she ends up on her back ,like i said before i hope she grows out of this ,ill still love her just the same but i want her to be confident , i know shes only five months but i just want to make sure im doing my best to make her happy ,healthy and confident

emmabeth · Post by **emmabeth** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:37 pm

I would hazard a guess that the tension on the lead isnt actually helping.

A dog has (like most animals, including us) a selection of instinctive options to deal with any given situation.

Those options are:

Fight
Flight
Freeze
Fiddle about

Depending on the species and the animal in questions age, previous experiences in life and general personality/temperament, the order of that list changes (so animals normally considered food by other animals will choose flight over fight).

Your pup, because shes on a lead and that lead is taut... has got flight and to a certain degree 'fiddle about' removed from the list.

So shes got fight... and shes got freeze.

Being a pup shes not likely to choose fight as her first option, and its not in her general nature as a Gundog either. So all she has got left, when she feels out of her depth, is to lie on the ground and give out all the 'im not a threat' signals she has, until the danger goes away.

Pick an older pup, of a different breed - say a terrier, who has tried this a couple of times and found things still remain scary, and you can rapidly have a pup who chooses 'fight' first (either actually intending to do harm, or just as a loud noisy macho display).

So it IS normal - but how you handle it can have a big impact on how she develops and what this behaviour becomes.

If you have to meet other dogs on the lead, follow a few simple rules.

Never meet head to head. Have the other dog walk ahead and you catch up from behind.
Walk parallel for a while, distracting your pup with treats and fuss.
Allow short 3 second sniff/contact sessions and then distract again and continue walking.
Keep the leash as loose as possible especially when the dogs are actually interacting.
Only meet one dog at a time, and choose these dogs wisely. No big rough dogs or shouty bossy dogs!
Keep yourself calm and 'light', its no big deal, its a happy but normal thing - its NOT super mega OMGOMG exciting, its not tense and scary and stuff might happen.. its norrrrrrmal and its nice...

If you can arrange play sessions with nice dogs who respond well to their owners, then I would do this - one dog at a time and allow a few seconds off leash play (once they have met onlead as above) - and then recall and distract.

This stops play getting too giddy - often I see people letting pups play like mad with older dogs and just like with kids before you know it, its gone too far and someones NOT having fun any more.

Teaching your pup that its normal to play... then come back for something (game, treat etc) then go back to play is a really good idea, this means you dont end up with a dog who thinks being recalled out of a game is The End and starts to ignore you.