Background:
I have a large dog (dane) who I've had since he was a puppy. He was taught relatively well to walk on the leash when he was a puppy, but as he got a little older and a lot bigger, it ended up that he was walking ahead of both my husband and me on the leash, and has now started biting and pulling on the leash, and jumping up a lot. I feel like I've tried everything, but nothing works. Bad-tasting spray on the leash worked only for a few minutes. Treats tend to get him more excited, and ultimately he doesn't pay attention to them once the leash biting and jumping starts. Stopping the walk and going inside just results in him jumping the whole way, and it doesn't work when we are far from home. I've tried ignoring him, but he continues to jump on my back, and I've tried it even for up to 10+ minutes with no results. It's gotten to the point where I am unable to take him on a walk alone anymore, which sucks. I have recently also gotten advice to try not rewarding him even inside unless he 'works' for it (for example, he has to sit or lie down). I'm not sure if this is helping or not. I need help.
Editing this muuuch later because the problem was resolved and I thought I'd share!
As I detailed above, nothing was working. But what eventually worked was this: Every time he started the jumping behavior, I held the excess leash in my hand so there was nothing to 'play with' (obviously leaving enough slack for him to be comfortable), and stood totally still, waiting for him to stop. Once he stopped, we'd move forward again. And so on and so forth. I think the biggest thing here though was me learning to be confident, or at least fake it. I had gotten so nervous taking him that I think I made the behavior worse by anticipating it. In the end, the key was to walk calmly and confidently, and just keep stopping and waiting consistently every time. It was difficult at first, and the progress was slow, but it was important not to give up. Over time, it began to lessen and eventually stopped almost entirely. He still did it very rarely when overly excited, but only for a few seconds and always calmed down quickly. Hope this helps anyone reading this now.
One more edit to say: The advice I received here was amazing and worked in a combination with what I detailed above. More (rewarding, fun) training, practicing and rewarding calm behavior, playing games, more exercise, etc. all helped.
Walking trouble
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Walking trouble
Last edited by Brynne on Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:06 am, edited 5 times in total.
That also reminds me of one other issue we have with him: when his is over-excited (inside the house) and I make him sit, he will sit, but often tries to put his paw on me. He's got big paws and big nails, and I get scratches down my legs. I'm not really sure how to correct him when he does this. Any ideas?
(Editing now to say that this behavior stopped when I turned away and ignored it.)
(Editing now to say that this behavior stopped when I turned away and ignored it.)
Last edited by Brynne on Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
More questions first, though thats a very detailed post so thanks for that..
What does he do during the day? I mean, how much training, how much off lead running about, how much playing games with him and also how much time alone does he have, either when you are actually out of the house or when you are not available to him, ie asleep/in the bath/in another room with the door shut.
A lot of this behaviour sounds like frustration and an outlet for excess energy, you have had limited success with some of the more 'positive reward' type methods which suggests he does indeed understand them... but..
That 'but' comes in where a dogs natural needs/desires are not fully being met.. you can ignore and 'non reward' all you like but if he NEEDS to burn off energy, run and play... and hes never given this opportunity it IS going to come out, either in repeatedly trying to make the behaviour you are trying to get rid of 'work', or somewhere else in developing a new 'problem' behaviour.
The other thing to consider is your own attitude and expectations - for instance you seem to expect that he must work for his treats, and thats ok no problem there.. but then you want him to work for NOTHING as well.. In expecting to be able to totally phase out rewards I think you are perhaps being a little unrealistic.
Perhaps in an older dog, in low key situations thats ok, but an 18 month old Great Dane is a very VERY long way from being an adult - probably another 18 months or even 2 years away.
I get the impression (and this could be wrong so I apologise if it is) that he is not allowed to meet with other dogs or people and you dont mention that he goes off lead either...
If that is the case then that will very likely result in a frustrated young dog, one who is also into his 'teenage' phase so thats double the reason to 'throw a strop' from time to time. If you are his entire world and his only source of interaction, it is going to be you who recieves the brunt of his frustrations.
Have a think about your relationship with him and what you expect from him. It does seem he leads a very restricted life and whilst having clear boundaries and rules IS necessary (and makes for a happier dog) - if those rules are TOO restrictive, if you try to squash his doggy nature too much it will 'burst out' where it can... and it would seem that on walks he has more of an advantage so thats where it occurs.
Some of the methods you have tried WILL work.. but only if the other things are in place as well. It is usually not a case of 'x problem = y solution' because everything you do, the way you live with him, the sort of temperament YOU have, has an effect on the way HE is. So you need to take a more holistic approach.
Clicker training IS a fantastic method of training dogs, and done properly does not mean you will always have to have the clicker or huge pockets fulls of treats on you. However when training a young dog who has a lot of growing to do yet (mentally if not physically), having a couple of treats in your pocket at all times will definately make life easier for you.
What does he do during the day? I mean, how much training, how much off lead running about, how much playing games with him and also how much time alone does he have, either when you are actually out of the house or when you are not available to him, ie asleep/in the bath/in another room with the door shut.
A lot of this behaviour sounds like frustration and an outlet for excess energy, you have had limited success with some of the more 'positive reward' type methods which suggests he does indeed understand them... but..
That 'but' comes in where a dogs natural needs/desires are not fully being met.. you can ignore and 'non reward' all you like but if he NEEDS to burn off energy, run and play... and hes never given this opportunity it IS going to come out, either in repeatedly trying to make the behaviour you are trying to get rid of 'work', or somewhere else in developing a new 'problem' behaviour.
The other thing to consider is your own attitude and expectations - for instance you seem to expect that he must work for his treats, and thats ok no problem there.. but then you want him to work for NOTHING as well.. In expecting to be able to totally phase out rewards I think you are perhaps being a little unrealistic.
Perhaps in an older dog, in low key situations thats ok, but an 18 month old Great Dane is a very VERY long way from being an adult - probably another 18 months or even 2 years away.
I get the impression (and this could be wrong so I apologise if it is) that he is not allowed to meet with other dogs or people and you dont mention that he goes off lead either...
If that is the case then that will very likely result in a frustrated young dog, one who is also into his 'teenage' phase so thats double the reason to 'throw a strop' from time to time. If you are his entire world and his only source of interaction, it is going to be you who recieves the brunt of his frustrations.
Have a think about your relationship with him and what you expect from him. It does seem he leads a very restricted life and whilst having clear boundaries and rules IS necessary (and makes for a happier dog) - if those rules are TOO restrictive, if you try to squash his doggy nature too much it will 'burst out' where it can... and it would seem that on walks he has more of an advantage so thats where it occurs.
Some of the methods you have tried WILL work.. but only if the other things are in place as well. It is usually not a case of 'x problem = y solution' because everything you do, the way you live with him, the sort of temperament YOU have, has an effect on the way HE is. So you need to take a more holistic approach.
Clicker training IS a fantastic method of training dogs, and done properly does not mean you will always have to have the clicker or huge pockets fulls of treats on you. However when training a young dog who has a lot of growing to do yet (mentally if not physically), having a couple of treats in your pocket at all times will definately make life easier for you.
Well normally I am at school full time and my husband is working, so he is home alone often (though my husband visits at lunch time and takes his outside). For the last couple months, however, I have had the summer off and have been home with him all the time, which hasn't seemed to affect his behavior whatsoever.
I play with him for a few minutes every day, he sleeps at night when we sleep, and I'm only totally unavailable to him for maybe an hour or an hour and a half each day.
The problem is that I would love love to exercise him more. I want to take him on hour long walks around our neighborhood and go exploring around with him, but it's just not doable for me until I can get this behavior under control.
At the moment, he gets two to three 25-minute walks every day. Maybe I'll try making our evening walk a lot longer when my husband is around to burn off some energy. I've looked for a dog park where he can be off leash in our area before and came up with nothing, but maybe I should search again.
He is very calm in the house and takes lots of naps (when we are both gone during the day, we always come home to find he was sleeping), but I know that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have excess energy.
I didn't mean he must work for everything as in I don't want to give him anything for nothing. I've changed my attitude recently in an attempt to help improve this problem behavior, by making him work more for things to build obedience and respect. And I don't mind rewarding him for walking well in the beginning with toys or treats, but eventually I would like for him to walk with me and be satisfied with the reward of my affection at the end of the walk. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression: I love this dog a lot and I really want him to be happy. I'm not as hard on him as I sound, though I thought that that might be part of the problem. I don't have an issue with giving him treats for no reason and things like that, but in looking for ways to solve the issue I've been having, I've heard a lot that I should work on obedience at home by making him work for everything.
He is allowed to meet other dogs and people, but we don't meet them on our walks. We've only seen two others walking their dogs around here, and one of them acted like he was going to kill our dog when we passed by. Luckily, our dog was friendly and just wanted to meet him, but obviously we kept walking.
We take him occasionally to my mother-in-law's place, with her two dogs and a bigger fenced-in yard than what we have, and he's gotten to meet a couple other dogs of friends and family, but doesn't spend much time with him. I suppose maybe we should try to take him to my mother-in-laws for a visit more often, but other than that, unless I can find a dog park around here, it's difficult to give him a chance to play with other dogs. So no, he isn't off-lead that much. Which I would like to change regardless of his behavior on the leash.
I'll look around again for a place to let him run free, and maybe I'll try to increase our evening walk to at least 45-60 minutes, with my husband around so that we can actually enjoy it. I could probably devote a little more time to playing with him at home every day, too.
Thanks for the advice. I'll work more on getting him exercise for now and hope that improves the situation.
I play with him for a few minutes every day, he sleeps at night when we sleep, and I'm only totally unavailable to him for maybe an hour or an hour and a half each day.
The problem is that I would love love to exercise him more. I want to take him on hour long walks around our neighborhood and go exploring around with him, but it's just not doable for me until I can get this behavior under control.
At the moment, he gets two to three 25-minute walks every day. Maybe I'll try making our evening walk a lot longer when my husband is around to burn off some energy. I've looked for a dog park where he can be off leash in our area before and came up with nothing, but maybe I should search again.
He is very calm in the house and takes lots of naps (when we are both gone during the day, we always come home to find he was sleeping), but I know that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have excess energy.
I didn't mean he must work for everything as in I don't want to give him anything for nothing. I've changed my attitude recently in an attempt to help improve this problem behavior, by making him work more for things to build obedience and respect. And I don't mind rewarding him for walking well in the beginning with toys or treats, but eventually I would like for him to walk with me and be satisfied with the reward of my affection at the end of the walk. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression: I love this dog a lot and I really want him to be happy. I'm not as hard on him as I sound, though I thought that that might be part of the problem. I don't have an issue with giving him treats for no reason and things like that, but in looking for ways to solve the issue I've been having, I've heard a lot that I should work on obedience at home by making him work for everything.
He is allowed to meet other dogs and people, but we don't meet them on our walks. We've only seen two others walking their dogs around here, and one of them acted like he was going to kill our dog when we passed by. Luckily, our dog was friendly and just wanted to meet him, but obviously we kept walking.
We take him occasionally to my mother-in-law's place, with her two dogs and a bigger fenced-in yard than what we have, and he's gotten to meet a couple other dogs of friends and family, but doesn't spend much time with him. I suppose maybe we should try to take him to my mother-in-laws for a visit more often, but other than that, unless I can find a dog park around here, it's difficult to give him a chance to play with other dogs. So no, he isn't off-lead that much. Which I would like to change regardless of his behavior on the leash. I'll look around again for a place to let him run free, and maybe I'll try to increase our evening walk to at least 45-60 minutes, with my husband around so that we can actually enjoy it. I could probably devote a little more time to playing with him at home every day, too.
Thanks for the advice. I'll work more on getting him exercise for now and hope that improves the situation.
I think you are right that some of those methods would work if the rest of my relationship with the dog was a good one. People have told me that the issue is that he does not respect me, and that no matter how perfectly I perform any type of training, it won't work until he does. But I'm not sure how to gain his respect. That's what I was trying to work on with the "nothing in life is free" philosophy.
Also, I am of course not expecting this behavior to change over night, and my husband can't always be around every time I take him out, and I have to take him out if for nothing else than for him to relieve himself.. so.. do you have any ideas for what I can do in the meantime when he starts this behavior?
Edit: See original post. Problem was resolved. (in case anyone is reading this now)
Also, I am of course not expecting this behavior to change over night, and my husband can't always be around every time I take him out, and I have to take him out if for nothing else than for him to relieve himself.. so.. do you have any ideas for what I can do in the meantime when he starts this behavior?
Edit: See original post. Problem was resolved. (in case anyone is reading this now)
Last edited by Brynne on Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Dont worry, that clarifies lots/answers a lot of my questions.
Also I do tend to take for granted somewhat just HOW free we are in the UK to let our dogs off leash in a wide variety of places (though, for how long that will continue i dont know... not long i imagine) and I forget sometimes not everyone has that opportunity on their doorstep!
Do have another search for somewhere though, as well as dog parks, try riding schools if they have secure indoor arenas (or livery yards/barns) that they may allow you to use for an hour or two in the evenings for a small fee.
I think dogs working for treats is a good thing on the whole, its just a matter of finding the right balance - its just as bad for dogs to be too harsh on them as it is to be too permissive.
Some people would assume my dogs are allowed to get away with murder, as they (five of them including a Deerhound) are allowed on the sofas and on our bed as well!
But these things come with certain other expectations, they must remove themselves when asked, they must share the sofa or bed space politely with everyone else, its certainly not a free for all!
I think what I would try with your boy is this..
Increase the play time so you do several short sessions a day - make sure the games are fun and energetic (and tuggy games ARE fine as long as they are with a tuggy toy and not sleeves/your stuff and rules are heeded - ie teeth touch skin, game ends. Dog gets too giddy and silly - game ends, when you say 'drop it' you mean this or the game ends, and end the game by getting up and walking away rather than attempting to get the toy off him. If you go 'ok, knickers to you pal' when hes not following the rules and you go out of the room and do something really interesting sounding elsewhere hes NOT 'won' has he!). So his play sessions are both fun and physical but also involve learning and problem solving.
Introduce a couple of clicker sessions a day of just say 3 minutes long each time (if he really gets it and loves it, do a few more but if this is the case add in more new sessions rather than increasing the duration of them!). He shoudl find this fun and rewarding and it will tire him mentally, it will also give him more trust and confidence in you.
For walking on the lead I would walk for JUST the amount of time you can currently do (or even a few minutes less) before he starts getting silly. So if you can currently do ten minutes before the battles start, take him out for 8 minutes (take a timer, walk for 4 minutes, about turn, walk home).
Praising and treating all the way.
Also do you insist on calm and sensible behaviour as you prepare for the walk, so quiet and standing or sitting still whilst you put on collars/headcollars/leads, open the door, close and lock the door behind you (i bet you do but if you dont.... start now).
So for say the next week, instead of battling with 1 40 minute walk.. try doing four or five 8 minute walks!
And finally, if your mother in laws dogs are sensibly behaved (ditto your friends dogs) then definately schedule some frequent doggy play time visits there. I would aim to have some playing. and energy draining stuff but also a little bit of training there so he doesnt get the idea that 'other dogs = go wild'. Hopefully your M-i-L can assist there and maybe in the future you can borrow one of her dogs and you and your husband can take your boy and the other dog for a short 'walking nicely with other dogs around' walk.
Hopefully then by the time you are back in school you will be able to increase the time he walks nicely on lead and he will find life that bit more fulfilling in a constructive way he will be a nicer dog to live with.
Do bear in mind it is going to be a year or two before he is a grown up sensible dog though and factor that in. You will achieve a lot more than you might think by merely preventing the unwanted behaviour from happening (ie the 8 minute walks) until he grows out of the need to do this.
Also I do tend to take for granted somewhat just HOW free we are in the UK to let our dogs off leash in a wide variety of places (though, for how long that will continue i dont know... not long i imagine) and I forget sometimes not everyone has that opportunity on their doorstep!
Do have another search for somewhere though, as well as dog parks, try riding schools if they have secure indoor arenas (or livery yards/barns) that they may allow you to use for an hour or two in the evenings for a small fee.
I think dogs working for treats is a good thing on the whole, its just a matter of finding the right balance - its just as bad for dogs to be too harsh on them as it is to be too permissive.
Some people would assume my dogs are allowed to get away with murder, as they (five of them including a Deerhound) are allowed on the sofas and on our bed as well!
But these things come with certain other expectations, they must remove themselves when asked, they must share the sofa or bed space politely with everyone else, its certainly not a free for all!
I think what I would try with your boy is this..
Increase the play time so you do several short sessions a day - make sure the games are fun and energetic (and tuggy games ARE fine as long as they are with a tuggy toy and not sleeves/your stuff and rules are heeded - ie teeth touch skin, game ends. Dog gets too giddy and silly - game ends, when you say 'drop it' you mean this or the game ends, and end the game by getting up and walking away rather than attempting to get the toy off him. If you go 'ok, knickers to you pal' when hes not following the rules and you go out of the room and do something really interesting sounding elsewhere hes NOT 'won' has he!). So his play sessions are both fun and physical but also involve learning and problem solving.
Introduce a couple of clicker sessions a day of just say 3 minutes long each time (if he really gets it and loves it, do a few more but if this is the case add in more new sessions rather than increasing the duration of them!). He shoudl find this fun and rewarding and it will tire him mentally, it will also give him more trust and confidence in you.
For walking on the lead I would walk for JUST the amount of time you can currently do (or even a few minutes less) before he starts getting silly. So if you can currently do ten minutes before the battles start, take him out for 8 minutes (take a timer, walk for 4 minutes, about turn, walk home).
Praising and treating all the way.
Also do you insist on calm and sensible behaviour as you prepare for the walk, so quiet and standing or sitting still whilst you put on collars/headcollars/leads, open the door, close and lock the door behind you (i bet you do but if you dont.... start now).
So for say the next week, instead of battling with 1 40 minute walk.. try doing four or five 8 minute walks!
And finally, if your mother in laws dogs are sensibly behaved (ditto your friends dogs) then definately schedule some frequent doggy play time visits there. I would aim to have some playing. and energy draining stuff but also a little bit of training there so he doesnt get the idea that 'other dogs = go wild'. Hopefully your M-i-L can assist there and maybe in the future you can borrow one of her dogs and you and your husband can take your boy and the other dog for a short 'walking nicely with other dogs around' walk.
Hopefully then by the time you are back in school you will be able to increase the time he walks nicely on lead and he will find life that bit more fulfilling in a constructive way he will be a nicer dog to live with.
Do bear in mind it is going to be a year or two before he is a grown up sensible dog though and factor that in. You will achieve a lot more than you might think by merely preventing the unwanted behaviour from happening (ie the 8 minute walks) until he grows out of the need to do this.
Brynne, I think you are trying too hard to have a well trained dog, nothing wrong with that apart from you are missing out on the interactions with him. This may sound strange but first I would open a bottle of wine and chill, always a good start when we have problems with our dogs. 
Next work out what you want from your dog, everyone wants something different. Work out what is very important behaviour from him and what isn't, then work on the important and manage those that are not.
He is still a very young dog so cuddle him, kiss him, so you are not aways training him, he needs this as well as training. Dogs always respond better when whe show them lots of affection even when they look like they don't, my Greyhound is like this, he pretends he doesn't like the kisses and cuddles but stop, and he is demanding more
There is a lady who lives by me, she is 4ft 9ins tall and thin, she has 3 Great Danes, all came as pups and all trained by her. They have pulled her over quite a few times when pups, but they get lots of affection and grow into well behaved, well mannered dogs
Good luck, relax and don't forget to open that bottle of wine and have a drink to relax.
Next work out what you want from your dog, everyone wants something different. Work out what is very important behaviour from him and what isn't, then work on the important and manage those that are not.
He is still a very young dog so cuddle him, kiss him, so you are not aways training him, he needs this as well as training. Dogs always respond better when whe show them lots of affection even when they look like they don't, my Greyhound is like this, he pretends he doesn't like the kisses and cuddles but stop, and he is demanding more
There is a lady who lives by me, she is 4ft 9ins tall and thin, she has 3 Great Danes, all came as pups and all trained by her. They have pulled her over quite a few times when pups, but they get lots of affection and grow into well behaved, well mannered dogs
Good luck, relax and don't forget to open that bottle of wine and have a drink to relax.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
Emmabeth,
Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely try to get him some more exercise and play time. I'll try the tug-of-war game again your way, and maybe I'll buy a clicker at my next visit to the pet store.
As for walking for shorter periods of time, I'll definitely give it a try. Sometimes he begins the behavior within the first 2 minutes, but not usually. And maybe if he starts it right away I should say, "Okay," and turn around and go back inside? And then try a few minutes later?
I do insist on calm behavior to an extent. He has to sit while I put on his leash, has to sit while I open the door and let me go first and then wait while I close the door. But he is usually pretty excited. He is sitting and staying still as I ask, but I don't think he is really calm most times.
And that's a good idea to take one of my mother-in-law's dogs on a walk with ours. I'm sure we can take a few minutes out of our visit there to all go on walk. My mother-in-law would probably like to join us, anyway. The whole family might.
Mattie,
I understand what you are saying, and it's good advice, but it's really hard sometimes. I do cuddle him and kiss him often throughout the day, but admittedly when I've just come inside with scratches all over my arms and legs after struggling with him outside for a half an hour, I don't really feel like calling him over to snuggle. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not always mad with him or in a bad mood or anything. But of course right after a frustrating walk I'm not as affectionate as earlier in the day.
Honestly, I don't care if he heels perfectly or does this or that. I just don't want my dog jumping on me and biting the leash when I try to take him out. I really, really want to have nice, relaxing walks with him, or even walks that aren't relaxing, but at least don't end up with injuries and frustration.
I have taken your advice in a way, though. I know my frustration when he acts up probably only adds to whatever frustration he is feeling, so lately I've been working on keeping myself calm, my voice calm, taking a deep breath when it happens, and trying to act confident. I know I have to have patience with him. I know he is still young, too, I'm just scared that if I just have the idea that he'll "probably grow out of it," then I'll be dealing with this problem forever.
And for the record, mostly this has caused me such frustration and upset not because I am mad at my dog, but because I know he wasn't born like this and I feel it must be somehow my fault. And that makes it worse, because I want him to be happy and sometimes I feel like I am failing him as a dog owner if I can't fix this. It's nice to hear that it might at least be easier to train out of him as he gets older, though, but I'm scared to rely totally on that.
Editing now waaaay later just to say: this was resolved (see original post), and all this advice really, really helped! So anyone reading this now should definitely read through all the great advice I received!
Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely try to get him some more exercise and play time. I'll try the tug-of-war game again your way, and maybe I'll buy a clicker at my next visit to the pet store.
As for walking for shorter periods of time, I'll definitely give it a try. Sometimes he begins the behavior within the first 2 minutes, but not usually. And maybe if he starts it right away I should say, "Okay," and turn around and go back inside? And then try a few minutes later?
I do insist on calm behavior to an extent. He has to sit while I put on his leash, has to sit while I open the door and let me go first and then wait while I close the door. But he is usually pretty excited. He is sitting and staying still as I ask, but I don't think he is really calm most times.
And that's a good idea to take one of my mother-in-law's dogs on a walk with ours. I'm sure we can take a few minutes out of our visit there to all go on walk. My mother-in-law would probably like to join us, anyway. The whole family might.
Mattie,
I understand what you are saying, and it's good advice, but it's really hard sometimes. I do cuddle him and kiss him often throughout the day, but admittedly when I've just come inside with scratches all over my arms and legs after struggling with him outside for a half an hour, I don't really feel like calling him over to snuggle. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not always mad with him or in a bad mood or anything. But of course right after a frustrating walk I'm not as affectionate as earlier in the day.
Honestly, I don't care if he heels perfectly or does this or that. I just don't want my dog jumping on me and biting the leash when I try to take him out. I really, really want to have nice, relaxing walks with him, or even walks that aren't relaxing, but at least don't end up with injuries and frustration.
I have taken your advice in a way, though. I know my frustration when he acts up probably only adds to whatever frustration he is feeling, so lately I've been working on keeping myself calm, my voice calm, taking a deep breath when it happens, and trying to act confident. I know I have to have patience with him. I know he is still young, too, I'm just scared that if I just have the idea that he'll "probably grow out of it," then I'll be dealing with this problem forever.
And for the record, mostly this has caused me such frustration and upset not because I am mad at my dog, but because I know he wasn't born like this and I feel it must be somehow my fault. And that makes it worse, because I want him to be happy and sometimes I feel like I am failing him as a dog owner if I can't fix this. It's nice to hear that it might at least be easier to train out of him as he gets older, though, but I'm scared to rely totally on that.
Editing now waaaay later just to say: this was resolved (see original post), and all this advice really, really helped! So anyone reading this now should definitely read through all the great advice I received!
Last edited by Brynne on Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
Everyone of us understands what you are going through Brynne, we have all been there ourselves but it is difficult to write down what we are trying to say, much easier face to face, we can also see each other's body langage then.
We have all been frustrated many times which is why I said to open a bottle of wine and chill, might as well enjoy ourselves when chilling.
Have you thought of playing mind games or doing some clicker training before you take him for a walk? This will tire his brain and may make things easier for walking. There is also playing games in the garden, put up some equipment to play with, tunnel, tyres to walk through etc. Once he has got rid of some energy he will be easier to walk and teach to walk on a loose lead. TTouch have some very good ground exercises, I am sure these will help him a lot and also help teach him to walk on a loose lead. They are quite easy to do.
You can also teach him to help round the house, fetch named items like the tv remote, teach him to dance etc.
Dogs can be very frustrating at times, when I notice I am getting frustrated I stop what I am doing and walk away from it, I don't mean walk away from my dog, just what I am doing. The instructions for the loose lead walking will have you walking up and down the same spot, this may help because you can stop as soon as you are getting frustrated and go back into your home.
You won't be dealing with this forever, you are doing something about it and one day the penny with drop with him, the feeling that will give you is tremendous.
This isn't your fault, you have a teenage hooligan that is a very big dog, if he was a small dog you could do what other owners do, pick him up to control him, doesn't work but does stop the owner from getting frustrated.
Each dog that has come here withing a day or 2 I have thought, What the hell have I taken on, how am I going to cope, Will I every be able to teach this dog etc. I came through it and so will you, you are not a bad owner, just the oposite, you are not failing him, just the oposite, you are on a steep learning curve so you can teach him and you will get there. Just stock up on plenty of wine.
We have all been frustrated many times which is why I said to open a bottle of wine and chill, might as well enjoy ourselves when chilling.
Have you thought of playing mind games or doing some clicker training before you take him for a walk? This will tire his brain and may make things easier for walking. There is also playing games in the garden, put up some equipment to play with, tunnel, tyres to walk through etc. Once he has got rid of some energy he will be easier to walk and teach to walk on a loose lead. TTouch have some very good ground exercises, I am sure these will help him a lot and also help teach him to walk on a loose lead. They are quite easy to do.
You can also teach him to help round the house, fetch named items like the tv remote, teach him to dance etc.
Dogs can be very frustrating at times, when I notice I am getting frustrated I stop what I am doing and walk away from it, I don't mean walk away from my dog, just what I am doing. The instructions for the loose lead walking will have you walking up and down the same spot, this may help because you can stop as soon as you are getting frustrated and go back into your home.
You won't be dealing with this forever, you are doing something about it and one day the penny with drop with him, the feeling that will give you is tremendous.
This isn't your fault, you have a teenage hooligan that is a very big dog, if he was a small dog you could do what other owners do, pick him up to control him, doesn't work but does stop the owner from getting frustrated.
Each dog that has come here withing a day or 2 I have thought, What the hell have I taken on, how am I going to cope, Will I every be able to teach this dog etc. I came through it and so will you, you are not a bad owner, just the oposite, you are not failing him, just the oposite, you are on a steep learning curve so you can teach him and you will get there. Just stock up on plenty of wine.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
Bruiser used to take his leash on his mouth and do the tug of war thing with us too. Especially if he wanted us to go faster or wouldn't let him go eat a cigarette butt or drink the ditch water or whatever. We were watching IMOTD one day and saw a dog doing the same thing and Victoria switched the leash to one of the small metal link ones (it's not a choke collar, the chain clips onto his harness) with a cloth handle and it's done the trick. Bruiser hasn't pulled his leash since the day we got the new leash.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who wonders at times if they've gotten in over their heads. It's my first time owning such a big dog, so I am taking it all as a learning experience, too. But it hasn't deterred me from wanting to own one again sometime in the future (though I hope I can take steps to avoid this in the first place!). Once I have found something and can see the progress, I will feel a lot better. I think I just have to be patient...
Edit: See original post -- updated to say how it was resolved. Also somehow accidentally lost half my post from this section, but it's basically quoted below, so read that.
Edit: See original post -- updated to say how it was resolved. Also somehow accidentally lost half my post from this section, but it's basically quoted below, so read that.
Last edited by Brynne on Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
I agree with leigha to try the metal leash. VS used it for the exact same problem on last week's episode. I would also try having him hold a ball or other object in his mouth tho I suspect he will drop it in lieu of jumping on you at some point. But maybe if he holds it for a few mts at a time ' & gradually increase the time he will get better. Start by having him hold object at home with the command "hold it" maybe for 10/15 sec then increase by 5 sec increments & reward for each.
When my boy Max (42 lb GS/Chow x) starts to jump or I see he is about to jump I give him a "down" command. If he doesn't comply immediately I simply step on the leash close to his neck and make him obey. I wait a mt or so before releasing him. Your big boy is probably 3-4x his size but see if you could try it. The scruff grabbing you do might be better when you command him to a 'down'. Once he is down just keep foot on leash for a mt or until you think he will walk nicely. praise/treat.
I really don't think you need a muzzle and like you said it will give the wrong impression to the neighbors. He doesn't attack other people, and it appears his attacks on you are simply an explosion of pent up energy.
Are there any Great Dane clubs that you can join? Keep looking for a dog park or somewhere where he can let it all hang out. What about agility, lure coursing or flyball? Any of those activities near you?
I would also suggest reading some books on Great Danes, just for more general knowledge and examples of how the breed developes and their characteristics. Great Danes have big brains, they are very smart.
So how much does he weigh? how tall is he? what color is he? Can you post a pic? The tallest GD in the world is named Gibson and he is a harlequin. He is 42" at the withers and towers over 7 ft on his hind legs! I saw a documentary about unusual animals & he was a feature. Unfortunetly I recently read an update that he had bone cancer in one of his paws & had to have it amputated.
Best of Luck to you & Kain
When my boy Max (42 lb GS/Chow x) starts to jump or I see he is about to jump I give him a "down" command. If he doesn't comply immediately I simply step on the leash close to his neck and make him obey. I wait a mt or so before releasing him. Your big boy is probably 3-4x his size but see if you could try it. The scruff grabbing you do might be better when you command him to a 'down'. Once he is down just keep foot on leash for a mt or until you think he will walk nicely. praise/treat.
I really don't think you need a muzzle and like you said it will give the wrong impression to the neighbors. He doesn't attack other people, and it appears his attacks on you are simply an explosion of pent up energy.
Are there any Great Dane clubs that you can join? Keep looking for a dog park or somewhere where he can let it all hang out. What about agility, lure coursing or flyball? Any of those activities near you?
I would also suggest reading some books on Great Danes, just for more general knowledge and examples of how the breed developes and their characteristics. Great Danes have big brains, they are very smart.
So how much does he weigh? how tall is he? what color is he? Can you post a pic? The tallest GD in the world is named Gibson and he is a harlequin. He is 42" at the withers and towers over 7 ft on his hind legs! I saw a documentary about unusual animals & he was a feature. Unfortunetly I recently read an update that he had bone cancer in one of his paws & had to have it amputated.
Best of Luck to you & Kain
Once a dog is reacting it is too late to use treats to distract him, he can't see or hear you, he is totally focused on what he is reacting to. Try and work out the triggers so you can take action before he reacts.Brynne wrote:Well, I had an interesting outing with Kain (my dog, of course) yesterday.
I decided to try it with treats again, but we had gotten hardly to the sidewalk when he started biting the leash and jumping around. First I tried to distract him with the treat and tell him to sit, but he was ignoring it.
Teach "Watch Me", you can then use it to hold his concentration as scary things go past and put yourself between him and the scary things. These are not tantrums but his reactions to scary things and have to be treated as this.Now I don't think Kain is terrified of motorcycles, but I think the sound makes him anxious, and that frequently triggers the bad behavior. I made him sit and fed him a treat to distract him as they passed. After he had finished eating the treat, and after they were already gone, then he started his tantrum again, except it was different this time. He acted like he was really scared, and seemed to be trying to get away from the leash to the point that he whined a little in his struggling, which has never happened before.
Nothing strange about that it is normalFinally, he calmed down enough and I told him, "Hey! Kain! It's okay." Now this is where it gets really strange, because he actually stopped then and I was able to walk with him nicely on the way back. He did have another half-hearted tantrum close to home, but he stopped quickly.
Once he had calmed enough for his brain to start working again he was able to listen and react to your calmness. Please stop looking at these as tantrums, dogs don't do tantrums like us humans do, more and more I am thinking this is fear of various things and needs to be treated as fear to solve them.So I guess it was probably the motorcycles, but it was just weird because he didn't freak out until after they were gone. And he's always gotten a little anxious when big trucks or motorcycles pass by, but never like that.
Motorcycles are very noisy so ae big trucks, he could be noise sensitive and all this noise hurts his ears which then excalates into fear.
Watch his body language esecially before he reacts like this, you may be able to take action before he starts as you get to understand him. The start of the walk will have helped because he didn't start stressed, this has enabled you to see him in a different way to normal because it affected how he behaved.Anyway, it was strange, I got some pretty bad scratches, but all in all it was actually much less eventful than our usually walks. I'd like to think the beginning of the walk had something to do with that, but the worst part about all of this is that I can never really tell if I'm doing the right thing and making progress, or if I'm not. And this walk seemed to be a bit of an anomaly, anyway.
Dogs don't misbehave for nothing, there is always a reason why they do this, it is up to us to find that reason which isn't easy at times. He is trying to tell you something and you need to listen, only by listening to him will you stop this.I wonder if it would make any sense to a dog for me to keep up with the "we go home when you misbehave thing" even far from home.
What is he like when you pick the lead up?
What is he like when you go out the door?
What is he like just after the walk starts?
These are all questions that you need to look at closely, they may give your the key to working out why.
Emmabeth has a sticky post somewhere on mind game, they are good and may help. There are lots of things to teach him, shake hands, roll over, 5 high, walk under your leg if you can lift it high enoughMattie,
Actually, I've been wanting to find some more games to play with him. Do you have any suggestions? I will buy a clicker next time I'm at the pet store for his food, and I enjoy teaching him new tricks, so maybe after awhile we can have some fun with some more complicated things like you suggested.
The limit of what to teach is your imagination. Do a search, you may find ideas on the internet.Depends on the games, some games can calm him down like the mind games, they are good when a dog has to be confined for any reason. Games can also be training, turn the training into games and a dog will learn quicker and better.I'll try doing a good few minutes of training or games before I take him out, though I might go for training rather than games, as I'm afraid of getting him more excited right before a walk.
I'll look into that thread for loose lead walking. Being close to home is good, as the normal issue is that I can't just walk away when we are far from home.
I have to drag my giant terrorist with me all the way home. That day will come, maybe a lot sooner than you think and it won't be long before you are helping others because of your experience with hm.Yes, I've been dreaming of the day when I can look back on all of this and think, "Oh, what a silly puppy he was."
All we can do is give you ideas on what may work, you are there, he is your dog and you know him, we have never seen him. Sometimes what we put up just needs a small tweek for the dog to catch on, we can't do that but you can by reading what he is telling you. There are posts about body language on here, try and find them they are good and will help you.
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