is my dog a potential red zone? (do over!)

[maximoo]

Hello All. I need a little help here. I have a gs/chow mix puppy named Max who is about to turn 1. We got him @ 7 wks from humane society. (he is neutered) He is now about 40 lbs, and knee high. Very handsome. Here is his usual routine: Times are approx:
Wake up--6:30
bathroom
lay around till 7:15
breakfast (Blue Buffalo)
outdoors till 11:30
Nap till 3:00
training till 3:20
outdoors
family play time 6:00 (vigorous)
walk 7:00 (20-30 mts) (with doggie backpack & light weights)
training (20 mts)
Dinner 8:00 Blue Buffalo)
bathroom 8:30
bathroom 9:45
Bedtime 10:00
I also take him to dog park 1x week and to doggie events & pet stores when possible. He plays well with other dogs/or avoids if he doesn't like a particular dog.
Here is the problem: During playtime or later in the eve Max gets the crazy look in his eye and jumps/snaps/bites me/kids. (14 & 11). The other night I was doing heel/sit training and he just started his nonsense w/o warning (none I cld see at least) He did it 3x during the session, but most other times he is perfect. He has been doing this since he was about 3 mo, however since about 7 mths he seems very intent on challenging me. He also nips the kids randomly. He tried to nip me ystrdy when I reached for his collar. It seems he goes from a calm state to this vicious little devil in a mere second. Also here's a new scenario. He ate his dinner then went into the bdrm. I called him. He didn't want to come. He finally came out stood in front of the door and showed teeth and growled, gave little barks then went back into bdrm. It was the strangest thing he has ever done.
I have tried sound aversion, water in the face, grabbing scruff, submission holds, throwing toys to distract, and time out. If I pull out treats it takes him a few seconds to obey, but his state of mind is still heightened and I don't feel he should get treats when he is in an unstable state of mind even if he obeys. I always praise/reward when he is good, never when he is in this crazy state of mind. He just impulsively attacks without provacation it seems.
He doesn't appear nervous/fearful/anxious. He just seems obnoxious.
He jumped/snapped at a (not well known) neighbor a few weeks ago when I told him to sit.
Neighbor went to pet him in a sitting state. I was shocked and embarrassed as he never did it before. I cannot figure out what is causing him to 'wig out' like that. I tried to see a pattern but just can't.
He knows basic commands tho he is weak ( or should I say selective) on recall.
Is Max a potential red zone? a ticking time bomb?
I'm sure many of you might say he needs an additional walk or more vigorous play time and I don't disagree. Plus he has 'wigged out" when I thought he was good & tired. Due to our schedules this is how it is. My husband wants to get rid of him. But I really want Max to work out.
Any thoughts, comments, ideas, would be appreciated.

[mum24dog]

Hello All. I need a little help here. I have a gs/chow mix puppy named Max who is about to turn 1.

First thing - noone on here can advise on specific cases where aggression may be involved without seeing the dog. It would be irresponsible to do so. All anyone can do is interpret what you say and give you things to think about.

Second thing - stop watching Cesar Millan.

Third thing - and getting to your case - you have an adolescent dog comprised of a herding/guarding breed which often has a tendency to be reactive and a breed for which the word "stubborn" doesn't go anywhere near what they can be like. (Forgive me for the generalisations.)
Adolescence is a time when the majority of dogs will start to push their luck and test the boundaries with you.
Before you start labelling this as "dominance" read the stickies at the top of this page.

Wake up--6:30
bathroom
lay around till 7:15
breakfast (Blue Buffalo)
outdoors till 11:30
Nap till 3:00
training till 3:20
outdoors
family play time 6:00 (vigorous)
walk 7:00 (20-30 mts) (with doggie backpack & light weights)
training (20 mts)
Dinner 8:00 Blue Buffalo)
bathroom 8:30
bathroom 9:45
Bedtime 10:00
I also take him to dog park 1x week and to doggie events & pet stores when possible. He plays well with other dogs/or avoids if he doesn't like a particular dog.

It's good that you are setting aside some time for training but 20-30 mins out of the house each day is nowhere near enough if he takes after the GSD side of his make up in any way.
He lives the vast majority of his life on your property and that is a recipe for territorial guarding. He needs to get out more to different places.

Here is the problem: During playtime or later in the eve Max gets the crazy look in his eye and jumps/snaps/bites me/kids. (14 & 11). The other night I was doing heel/sit training and he just started his nonsense w/o warning (none I cld see at least) He did it 3x during the session, but most other times he is perfect. He has been doing this since he was about 3 mo, however since about 7 mths he seems very intent on challenging me.

What do you mean by "bite". Dies he break the skin? Does he just mouth? Such behaviour is often frustration or over excitement. I'm pretty sure he will have given signs before he did it. You need to learn to read him.

{quote] He also nips the kids randomly. [/quote]

Under what circumstances? Herding breeds often nip.

He tried to nip me ystrdy when I reached for his collar.

Typically someone will lean over and grab at the collar. This is threatening to a dog. He is learning that snapping at you will make you back off. He needs to learn a pleasant association with having his collar held. You need to build up contact gradually and calmly and avoid looming over him.
Google canine body language and calming signals and you should get help in understanding his state of mind.

Also here's a new scenario. He ate his dinner then went into the bdrm. I called him. He didn't want to come. He finally came out stood in front of the door and showed teeth and growled, gave little barks then went back into bdrm.

Does he have a place of his own where he can get away from what is going on in the house? Could be that he is starting to think of the bedroom as his den and place of safety.
You need to give him an incentive to come out, although I do sympathise with your difficulty in finding something that will motivate him if he is more chow like in temperament than GSD.

I have tried sound aversion, water in the face, grabbing scruff, submission holds, throwing toys to distract, and time out.

Stop it - now! (Apart from the distraction with toys.) None of that will help with the behaviour you describe. Do you really want your dog to be afraid of you. Fear increases the likelihood of agression. Treating a dog like that is the way to go if you want to ensure you do have "a ticking time bomb".

He jumped/snapped at a (not well known) neighbor a few weeks ago when I told him to sit.
Neighbor went to pet him in a sitting state.

Neighbour bends over him to pat him on the head? Dogs hate that from strangers although most learn to tolerate it from people they trust.

Think about the language you use about him -
"challenging me"
"vicious little devil"
"unstable state of mind"
"potential red zone"
"ticking time bomb"
all negative and putting blame on him for being a dog.
Back off and try to see the world through his eyes.
Do some reading - Patricia McConnell's "The Other End of the Leash" would be a good place to start.
Forget playtime for a while - it could be that he simply doesn't have the impulse control not to go OTT.
Shorten your training times. 10 mins 4 times a day is much better than 20 mins twice. The longer the session the more opportunity there is for the dog to get confused and frustrated.

You could have a dog that is a potential danger, of course, but the chances are he is just behaving as my own BC did when we got him. He used his teeth to get what he wanted, having learned that it worked in his previous home. He doesn't do it now becaiuse he has no need to, although I still don't let strangers pet him just in case.

Pam

[Mattie]

Hello All. I need a little help here. I have a gs/chow mix puppy named Max who is about to turn 1. We got him @ 7 wks from humane society. (he is neutered) He is now about 40 lbs, and knee high. Very handsome.

Forget about the red zone, that is something that Cesar Millan thought up and has nothing to do with dogs, it is purely a marketing thing for him to make more money from.

How old was he when he was neutered? Many dogs that are neutered early never mature properly mentally, they stay in a puppy mentality, I have a 17 year old like this.

Here is his usual routine: Times are approx:
Wake up--6:30
bathroom
lay around till 7:15
breakfast (Blue Buffalo)
outdoors till 11:30
Nap till 3:00
training till 3:20
outdoors
family play time 6:00 (vigorous)
walk 7:00 (20-30 mts) (with doggie backpack & light weights)
training (20 mts)
Dinner 8:00 Blue Buffalo)
bathroom 8:30
bathroom 9:45
Bedtime 10:00
I also take him to dog park 1x week and to doggie events & pet stores when possible. He plays well with other dogs/or avoids if he doesn't like a particular dog.

He is spending too much time outside on his own, he needs to be occupied both physically and mentally. What do you do in the training sessions?

He is an active, teenager and needs a lot more exercise than 20 to 30 minutes a day even with a backpack on.

Here is the problem: During playtime or later in the eve Max gets the crazy look in his eye and jumps/snaps/bites me/kids. (14 & 11). The other night I was doing heel/sit training and he just started his nonsense w/o warning (none I cld see at least) He did it 3x during the session, but most other times he is perfect. He has been doing this since he was about 3 mo,

What does he do in family playtime? Is he getting very excited? Do you play very rough with him? Is there any variety in training sessions or is it just sit,heel training, this will be very boring to him. He seems to have far too much energy because of not enough exercise.

however since about 7 mths he seems very intent on challenging me. He also nips the kids randomly. He tried to nip me ystrdy when I reached for his collar.

It seems he goes from a calm state to this vicious little devil in a mere second.

This is about the time he became a teenage hooligan, we have all been there Never grab a dog by the collar, to them it is an aggressive act which is why he nipped you.

I doubt he is challenging you, does he have consistant boundaries or do the change from day to day. Dogs need very consistant boundaries, like children they will try to push them but seem to be much happerier when they don't change. If you don't allow him on the furniture one day and do the next, he will be confused and he does sound confused to me.

Also here's a new scenario. He ate his dinner then went into the bdrm. I called him. He didn't want to come. He finally came out stood in front of the door and showed teeth and growled, gave little barks then went back into bdrm. It was the strangest thing he has ever done.
I have tried sound aversion, water in the face, grabbing scruff, submission holds, throwing toys to distract, and time out.

You are using aggression to solve normal teenage problems, this will teach your dog to be aggressive because that is what he is learning. Submission holds are the worst thing you can do to a dog, they feel so vunerable and like us when we are vunerable we are scared so react. Your dog is reacting to the way you are trying to solve problems.

If I pull out treats it takes him a few seconds to obey, but his state of mind is still heightened and I don't feel he should get treats when he is in an unstable state of mind even if he obeys. I always praise/reward when he is good, never when he is in this crazy state of mind. He just impulsively attacks without provacation it seems.
He doesn't appear nervous/fearful/anxious. He just seems obnoxious.
He jumped/snapped at a (not well known) neighbor a few weeks ago when I told him to sit.
Neighbor went to pet him in a sitting state. I was shocked and embarrassed as he never did it before. I cannot figure out what is causing him to 'wig out' like that. I tried to see a pattern but just can't.
He knows basic commands tho he is weak ( or should I say selective) on recall.

You have used aversions, water in his face, forced submissions etc so have taught him to be frightened, dogs are normally very wary of hands going over the top of them, when in a sit a person goes to pet them they have to lean over, to a dog another sign of aggression, he reacted in the only way he could, snapped.

Is Max a potential red zone? a ticking time bomb?
I'm sure many of you might say he needs an additional walk or more vigorous play time and I don't disagree. Plus he has 'wigged out" when I thought he was good & tired. Due to our schedules this is how it is. My husband wants to get rid of him. But I really want Max to work out.
Any thoughts, comments, ideas, would be appreciated.

There is not such thing as red zone, it is a marketing ploy to make money. I know I sound harsh but I have your dog's interests at heart not your's, your dog has no say in what happens to him, you do to what you do to him.

Stop now what you are doing, there is a sticky with clips showing dogs body language, watch them and watch your dog. Learn to listen to what he is telling you. He may not look nervous or stressed but he certainly sounds very stressed and is reacting as a stressed dog.

You are all stressed as well as Max, open a bottle of wine and chill, if you are stressed you can't turn Max round. At the moment nobody is enjoying Max and Max isn't enjoying you, turn this round, have fun, play games with him, read the sticky on mind games and play them, he will enjoy them. Start his training all over again only this time no aversions or punishment, if you can't get him to do it the way you are trying, use your brain, think of another way were he will understand what you want.

Max doesn't understand English, you have to teach him, you had to teach your children language and they are the same species as you are, Max will need more patience to learn what you want him to do.

Set your boundaries, if he gets on the sofa and you don't want him to encourage him off gently or keep a short lead on him so you can lead him with that instead of grabbing his collar. Max won't think you are going to use force with a lead. As he gets off with the lead, give him the command and reward him so that he learns what the work Off means without any stress.

There is always another way to get what we want of our dogs, we don't have to use force to do this, force leads to aggression and stress from both sides.

You obviously care very much for Max, read the sticky threads, they will give you lots of ideas to try and get rid of Cesar Millan, as you have found out his methods don't work and can do a lot of damage.

Good luck and stay with us, we will try to give you as many ideas and help as we can and hopefully Max will become the dog you want.

[emmabeth]

Oh how I would like to shake that man by the neck - but thats not very positive reinforcement of me is it....

Anyway - ignore CM - listen to your dog.

He sounds as if he is like a kid saying 'hey lessons are boring, lets do THIS' and trying to instigate play. Certainly the episode you describe of him going to the bedroom sounds just like that.

The nipping and biting - how did you teach him not to play bite as a puppy, as I think you'll find the answer lies there.

I teach my dogs that snapping/nipping/hard biting will not result in interaction between us, certainly not play. However gentle mouthing is fine. So in essence they know how to use their mouths and teeth around people in a safe and controlled way.

If that isnt what you taught your dog, and if you punished him heavily for it, he may well not have learned what is and isnt acceptable.

It really does sound like he is a bored teenager and is trying to inject some fun into things - the way he is going about that may not be appropriate and thats going to be down to a combination of his character, his breed traits and the way he has been raised so far.

In your daily itinerary he does seem to spend a lot of time alone, and when you say training.... what do you do for 20 minutes? Even my die hard clicker training addict doesnt do 20 minutes at a time as he tunes out.

IS the training fun FOR HIM - as has been said... never mind you for now, if its not fun for him hes going to try and make it fun!

If you are doing repetative stuff like sits, downs, waits, and hes not using his brain or earning anything rewarding from it then thats probably part of the problem.

[Fundog]

Hi, I wasn't able to read everything everyone else already said, since I'm late getting ready for work...

As has been mentioned, your dog is in the canine adolescent phase. This is when the "aliens" abduct your sweet puppy and replace him with an imposter. Your interplanetary exchange student will be returned to you in due time.

Chows are known to be a bit nippy.

Young dogs tend to become nippy when over excited during play, or demanding play. This is a good time to either take him for a walk, even a brief one, and/or redirect him for some quiet time with a juicy bone or stuffed Kong. (Like settling the preschool children up with Play-dough after a vigorous game of tag)

Also, I've found it to be very helpful to do the walk before the training session. This helps them to focus better. And, like someone else mentioned, shorten the training sessions to about ten minutes each.

[maximoo]

Thank you all for your comments/suggestions

First Pam: What do I mean by bite? Well Max has left a bunch of nasty bruises several times on the arms,legs, & back, ripped my shirts, pants. When he leaps at me oftentimes his mouth lands on my boob, and that really hurts. I tried VS way of turning/standing still arms folded but he doesn't stop. He keeps biting my legs/ or jumping up to my back with red eyes and a snapping mouth. Walking away isn't any better. If I try to get him to put him in time out it's a physical battle. The only thing that sort of works is throwing a toy but sometimes I am toyless and I'm stuck with an attacking puppy. I am almost sure he thinks it's play but I've never played with him like that. I do not play tug with him as I've heard that bad for aggresive dogs.
When does he nip kids? Sometimes they are standing still and he will nip. I know he has herding instincts but he isn't always going after moving feet. I think it's his way of saying "I want to play." Oh and on occassion he tries to hump kids too. Unacceptable.
When he tried to nip me I was not going over his head. He was in his crate and I told him to come. (to go out to potty) He was being stubborn. I reached under his neck where collar attachment was and that's when his little mouth went into action. He never did that before.
He has a crate (as mentioned) and I just bought him a new bed. He sleeps in crate at night and during midday nap. I am trying to get him to stop biting his new bed so he will have an additional area to rest. Otherwise he stays in the hallway. We live in Fl and he loves the cold floor. I did put his new bed on top of my bed so he cld relax with me in the morn but ever since then he thinks he can jump on my bed anytime. Maybe that's why he had that strange episode after his dinner the other night. He wanted to claim my bed. I do not allow him on the bed only when his bed is on it, and that is a new thing. Most times he is trying to bite so I have to get him off alltogether.
I don't mean to sound negative, but what words does one use with a red eyed jumping/shapping/biting dog who mouths very hard and will bite your face if you get too close.?
In order for a dog to show fear doesn't there have to be a situation to trigger it? There is nothing going on to trigger a "fear reaction" in Max. When he is afraid he will crouch down, have a look of concern and not move forward (like when I took him to groomer for the 1st time) Random attacks on me, his mom, seem just that, random.

Now on to Mattie: Max was neutered at 6 wks of age. I've never
heard early neutering could keep dog immature. Interesting point.
We do not play any rough games likes wrestling, tug or anything like that. We play chasing, fetching games to help him blow off steam. Oftentimes just after a few mts he is pooped and will lay down. Somtimes we have to play with him in 10 mts sessions 3x during the evening. It is very warm here in Fl and it's only going to get hotter so the outdoor play sessions will soon come to a halt--just too damn hot. Indoors we sometimes play seek/find games. He loves finding food under a towel.
For training I do different skills: sometimes it's just the stay command. Othertimes it's fun stuff like crawl, shake, play dead, roll over, or go thru tunnel & jump over stick. Usually in the eve we work on heel/loose leash walking. The training is not always 20 mts. Most times it's more like 10 except for the heel/walking. I want to teach him "PLACE" and even started a thread but nobody has replied in over a week. I want him on his bed in the kitchen while I do cooking/cleaning, etc.

To Emmabeth: When Max was a young pup and he would mouth, I gave a sharp "NO" and offered him a toy. When he took toy I gave praise. That's what I saw on dvds, the internet, and even tv. Somehow it never taught Max not to bite people as they said this technique would.

Fundog, you sure made me laugh when you said my puppy was abducted & replaced with an imposter. It certainly feels like that.

I do want Max to be a guard dog and him being territorial is not a bad thing to me. This is his house/yard and nobody better not dare step in w/o permission. But first have to get him to understand that biting family is not good.
I brought Max to meet my students ystrd (disabled adults) and he was great. He kissed them, took treats, and I had him play dead/roll over. After about 20 mts tho I noticed he was strting to get overly excited and I quickly ended the visit. I certainly did not want him to mouth or jump on my students. Eventually I would like Max to become a therapy dog, but I know there's alot of hard work ahead.
Thanks again for all your imput.

[DannyboyStephjoy's OES]

What do I mean by bite? Well Max has left a bunch of nasty bruises several times on the arms,legs, & back, ripped my shirts, pants. When he leaps at me oftentimes his mouth lands on my boob, and that really hurts. I tried VS way of turning/standing still arms folded but he doesn't stop. He keeps biting my legs/ or jumping up to my back with red eyes and a snapping mouth. Walking away isn't any better. If I try to get him to put him in time out it's a physical battle. The only thing that sort of works is throwing a toy but sometimes I am toyless and I'm stuck with an attacking puppy. I am almost sure he thinks it's play but I've never played with him like that. I do not play tug with him as I've heard that bad for aggresive dogs.

I have this exact problem. Of course our puppy is only four months old. So obviously we have only just begun the battle and she is teething. But what I'm doing obviously is not working. I've tried the short loud eh eh. Turning my back....only leads to nasty bruises and cuts to the back of the legs. Walking away...increases the biting and jumping. Scruffing her and giving her a time out...makes her come out biting and mad no matter how long or short we wait. All she's learned from time out is be quiet and then bite when they come back


I would love, love, love for Victoria to address this issue-IN PUPPIES. Because it seems like she does this and the dogs instinctually stop. I would love to know what I'm doing wrong.

[emmabeth]

Ow!....

Ok, time outs do work but they have to be given properly..(mostly this is for DannyboyStephsJoy'sOES rather than you Maximoo)..

They have to be:

Instant. Short. Repeated as often as they need to be.

If for whatever reason putting the puppy in the time out isnt practical (ie puppy is finding it highly rewarding to be chased round to be caught to be put out of the room...), you step out of the room and shut the door.

It is difficult, and it does mean that you miss most of your favourite tv program, and you spend what seems like all night every night stepping out of the room and going back in again, only to go back out again a few seconds later.

It DOES work - but only if you are consistent. If you time out a puppy and he/she bounces back in going 'hey what happened, ooh biting was fun bitebitebite' and you just let him/her carry on and dont immediately time out again (and again and again and again!)... they wont learn from it.

It has to be an instant reaction - puppies bite, puppies go out the room/get 'abandoned' and everyone leaves.

The result you are looking for is that puppy learns biting ends play/attention/company.

It is however, only fair (and effective) to apply this to a dog who HAS sufficient outlet for his needs - that means toys, food that requires chewing/gnawing on/ tuggy games (these do NOT make a dog aggressive, thats a big pile of cack!), problem solving type training etc.

Unfortunately pups neutered really young can totally fail to mature and its these that do tend to go on and on and on and not give up where a naturally maturing pup would figure out 'hey no one else is having fun here....' and quit. I have one here who was neutered at 6 months, which was too young for him.. and he really struggles with his self control, and also with other dogs (funny he wont quit himself... but boy does he HATE it when another dog wont quit harrassing him to play.... ) as he lacks the 'mojo' if you will to say 'no. dont want to.' in an appropriate way.

Interrupting the behaviour and offering an alternative, aka the 'no!' and offering a toy...

Can work. Depends on the dog. Depends on the alternative offered (boring rubber toy when the dog wants to play rag and tug, thats like you wanting to play Wii boxing and being offered a game of monopoly... not comparable! not going to work!)... depends also just HOW much that dog wants to do that thing... and how consistent you are in saying no and meaning it.

[emmabeth]

*Mod in*...

No, no ones going mad - lets try this one again and remember folks - libel laws apply on the internet as well!

*Mod out*.

[Noobs]

Thanks, emmabeth! I know I contributed to the original thread getting hijacked so I'm glad maximoo gets to start over and bring the topic back to Max.

Maximoo, I have been curious as to how it's been going since it's been nearly a month since your original post.

[maximoo]

This thread really got way off course, didn't it? E-Bth to the rescue!

Some good infos/suggestions had to be lost as well as ones not so good. Anyway I'm glad for the fresh start, after all every day can be a fresh start in life and with our dogs

In the yard Max still attacks. The best thing so far is throwing a toy, to divert his body away from us. After a few minutes of high speed running/chasing he will usually not try jumping/snapping. (a tired dog is a good dog!) But the initial problem is still there. Grabbing him to put him in a timeout yields bruises & nips to my person, turning & ignoring yields the same results. Some suggested adding thick layers of clothes & ignoring to show him his behavior 'doesn't work.' That suggestion won't work for me b/c 1) the attacks do not last long enough to warrent a complete chg of wardrobe 2) I don't have alot of clothes to be able to do it with & 3) It's over 80 degrees outside! If I could ignore him long enough I know he will stop, but again I still get nipped on my back/legs & booty! So I can't just stand there & let him do it, even if the episode is under 30 sec. And even if I could, the kids can't. I need to find a way to make him not start in the first place. Thus having a toy/ball to throw gets him moving away from us. But I know it isn't solving the problem, just managing it. I am really trying to look objectively at what he gets out of jumping/snapping. Well it's fun, and he gets attention. But he gets attention & fun anyway as we are coming out to play. I'm still working on it.

In the eves after walk then dinner he has a burst of energy, and I have added a little tug time. It helps, then I give him a Kongsickle, then off to bed. However 3 nights this past week he started barking in his crate & wouldn't settle. The 1st night I thought he had an upset stomach or something... no. We let him sleep in the hallway, the other 2 nights the same. Don't know why he didn't want to stay in the crate. I do want to slowly faze him out, maybe he's telling me to start NOW! Maybe he wants a BIGGER Kongsickle I really am clueless....
When possible I'll take him for a car ride to the store, a friend's house etc & sometimes we miss his walk but he seems more tired from the car ride and settles quickly. ( it isn't often, maybe 1x/2x wk at most)

I taught him how to 'beg' this week. Very Easy!

When walking he has basically stopped lunging toward cats, but he will give a good stare. And he is walking past dogs with less interest. He shows curiosity but we keep moving. He is more focused on sniffing & marking now. However his girlfriend ( a 2 yr old submissive boxer) still gets him crazy when we happen to meet her! He is better, but he loves her so much I guess he can't help himself Anyway, that is not a pressing issue.

So we have progress in some areas, and not much in others, and new issues with staying in the crate at night. I wonder what the next month will bring?

[Pawzk9]

Does he know sit? ?An immediate, solid sit? I have one young dog in class who used to treat her owner like Max treats you (she showed me her bruises) who is much improved. However, we're in the monsoon season and at Rally class this week, she had a bit of cabin fever and was up to her old tricks (but not as bad).

While I was holding her while her mom walked the course, she decided to climb me (a huge improvement since when they first started classes, she was wary and unapproachable). I simply gave her a cue to sit, and that solved the climbing issue. Because she now has some training, you can ask her to do something (a sit or down) that's incompatible with climbing on and mouthing people. Now one thing you do have to be careful of - if you are using a marker and treats, you don't reward immediately for a sit that follows standing on people. Otherwise you end up with a dog who requests the opportunity for reward by jumping on you.

She got a bit wound when her owner was doing the faster or more exciting parts of the course. Owner left the room for 30 seconds, closing the door behind her. It took twice and the dog rememberd how not to try to grab pant legs.

[muddyfloors]

What happened to this thread?

[maximoo]

Pawz, Yes he knows sit & down but he will not listen to commands in that state of mind. Not even with a treat in my hand

To Muddy Floors: this thread took on a completely different life of its own, and Ebeth felt it necessary for a do-over. I concur.

[Horace's Mum]

I think this got lost in the old thread, but if you want to put him in timeout and can't get hold of his collar (which is probably either a cue to play or something he doesn't like you doing) then try leaving a length of lead or lightweight chain attached, so you just pick up the end and walk off with him attached. Should make timeout easier to instigate.

When Horus gets into this mood outside, I just walk off and inside straight away and do something else like put the kettle on and ignore him. He won't stay still long enough to see a command, although this is what I would do in any other situation. But when he goes mad outside I can't get through to him so I just disappear. I don't shut the door on him because that became a game, but me going indoors meant end of fun, he doesn't like being mad on his own!!