Regarding VIctoria's Separation Anxiety training

[purplestar]

I am in the process of desensitizing my dog, Leela (chocolate lab mostly but there's something else in her too)to her people leaving. She is from the humane society and she has what I would call serious anxiety. We have a kong that we fill with PB and give it to her only when we are going out. What I was wondering, is when I am doing little 'practice' leaving sessions (where I go out for a few minutes, then return, gradually getting out for longer periods) do I give her the kong each of those times? Or isit for the times that we really are leaving?

Any other tips would be great. We have learned to close all the doors, put a baby gate at the kitchen and put everything away. She is 4 but we have only had her for a month. She gets into whatever she can when we are gone and eats it. She has knocked over breakables and we've come home to broken glass. It's a miracle that she didn't step in it. Yesterday, even though the kitchen was blocked, we have a window-thingee that opens from the eating area into the cooking area and she jumped on the counter and was strnded there until someone came home to lure her down with a treat. Occasionnally she pees on the floor.

I'm terrified that she will hurt herself.My dog Axl was killed last year and I cannot think about losing another dog so soon. I may be overreacting but I can't help it. I don't want her to choke on something or break her leg. I love her dearly and I will do whatever I need to to keep her safe. She is not alone for more than 2 or 3 hours about 3 times a week.

When we are home, she is a complete angel. I know she is just afraid and I want to help her to be more independant. Yes, she follows me everywhere...we are working on that too.

Thanks you for any advice..maybe something I haven't read somewhere else that worked for you?

[whatthedeuce]

do I give her the kong each of those times? Or isit for the times that we really are leaving?

In my opinion if you only give the kong when you are really leaving, she'll very quickly learn that means the leave is "real."

I would always give her the kong even when practicing short times of being alone, because the small sessions of her being alone should be rewarded to work up to the longer sessions. You probably don't have to fill the kong completely, just put in a little bit so she's interested.

[SuzanneT]

Seriously, but this book. McConnell tells you what to do... You can buy this book on Ebay for less that what it is listed for here.

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/produc ... on-anxiety

[Emma&Tess]

Make sure you are the boss. If she is the boss then when you go away she will think she has to look after you but she can't get to you. This causes her to become anxious. You have to be the pack leader.

[Nettle]

We don't do pack rules here, Emma& Tess - that was once a fashionable idea but modern training has progressed beyond that. Stay with us and read more threads and you'll see why.

Purplestar, you are doing well, and you haven't had your dog for long at all. How is she progressing?

[Cracker]

Have you thought about acclimatizing her to a crate for when you are gone, for her safety?
I have an SA dog too...pacing, urinating, howling and just recently chewing..which she never did even as a pup. Confining her to a smaller space helps (though I don't crate..I live in a teeny tiny place and there is little room for a largesize crate) but I do restrict her movements as much as I can.
I am using a DAP (dog appeasing pheromone) diffuser, she is on anti anxiety medication and I am using the same protocols as you in desensitization and it is coming along nicely. I can now leave her for up to 2 hours without the urinating and howling so progress is being made.

And yes, the kong needs to there for each and every desensitizing exit.

[Emma&Tess]

[quote="Nettle"]We don't do pack rules here, Emma& Tess - that was once a fashionable idea but modern training has progressed beyond that. Stay with us and read more threads and you'll see why.

Have you read Victoria's book it's Me or the Dog. Read it and you will find why I said you have to be the pack leader. Page 20

[Paul&Muttley]

Just an idea, as I have not had to deal with SA with my dogs and I am new to the concepts of positive training. I have read that variable reinforcement is much more powerful, so would it be better to be more random about giving the Kong, and leaving for various lengths of time, and perhaps sometimes returning with the Kong rather than always give it prior to leaving? Maybe the dog will look forward to your return because sometimes you bring nice treats, and you might be away for a few minutes or a few hours. But probably not give the Kong if there has been a problem upon return.

I really think a dog will not have so much SA if he/she really feels secure and loved, and considers the house as his/her den shared with the humans.

Crate training is also a good idea IMHO, especially if there has been lots of damage and possible danger to the dog. But I only used a crate for Lucky while she was recuperating from spay surgery to try and keep her from being too active with Muttley. I used it more as a precaution and not so much as a training aid. Good luck!

[Dogwoodblossom]

I wouldn't give the kong (or anything) when you come back. Everything I've read says no fuss coming or going. Giving a treat when you come back would make the dog look forward to your return, which is exactly what you don't want.

I make a point of giving the kong and/or whatever other awesome treats as I go out the door (less good treats are given through the whole getting ready to leave process). When I come back I remove it calmly and don't have anything else to do with her for a few minutes. She doesn't get the kong at all unless I am gone.

The last time we did this (we've gotten over the SA once, but we just moved so now we have to start again) it got to the point Amelie was frantically excited for me to leave because that was when she got the best stuff. She would practically hurry me out the door.

[Nettle]

We don't do pack rules here, Emma& Tess - that was once a fashionable idea but modern training has progressed beyond that. Stay with us and read more threads and you'll see why.

Have you read Victoria's book it's Me or the Dog. Read it and you will find why I said you have to be the pack leader. Page 20

I consider myself duly rebuked however I stand by what I have said - check the publication date, understand that a book takes about a year from completion to publication and that ideas change. Of course this is confusing because when people consult a book they can't be expected to know these things.

Pack rules are a blast from the past - training ideas have moved on a long way from that. Thank goodness.

[Cracker]

Paul.

As much as it IS true that variable reinforcement is powerful..when dealing with SA (especially severe SA) the kong is not meant as a reward, it is meant as an appropriate outlet for the stress...licking a kong filled with frozen PB for example releases endorphins..(licking itself is endorphin releasing, the pb just gets the dog "going") so it is not something to be used as a beh. mod reinforcement but is a valued distraction. Eventually the kong becomes an indicator of relaxation and pleasure, which hopefully becomes linked to "mum leaves and calm occurs". It's more classical conditioning (like Pavlov) than operant conditioning. This is why it is so important the Kong is there each and every time the owner leaves.

Also...SA is often over "diagnosed"...mild SA is normal in dogs, they are social animals and need to be "with" their people but true SA involves, panting, pacing, salivating, destructive chewing (stress based), misurination/bowel emptying and escape behaviour. Some dogs literally have been known to chew through doors and throw themselves through windows to get out and to their owners.

Feeling secure and loved is certainly important to the mental/emotional well being of the animals but does little to improve true SA. This is why Cracker is on medication..her anxiety levels were so high that she was unable to "learn" or function....keeping any beh. mod that was attempted from working. Before the meds she was also starting to generalize the anxiety to outside of the home as well...increased reactivity, stressing in previously okay environments etc. For her, to feel safe was only to be WITH me...This is slowly improving and as much as it is ego flattering to know my dog feels safe with me..it is unhealthy for both of us to be together 24 hours a day. LOL.

[Feathers]

I am way too new to get into this but I'm going to throw my two cents in....

Ok... copy write in my VS book 2007

I can hear in my head VS words from a show after a owner was amazed and asked why isnt' the dog mouthing you/VS? and VS said that "dogs do not mouth a leader" and all she had done was stand with her arms crossed giving out leader vibes.

VS book and a lot in her shows says that you have to be the leader and I think that is what was meant by Em's "pack leader" and not what usually comes to mind when we hear pack leader the dominance training.

I think we'll all agree that VS books description of how to be a leader is something we will most agree on... here is my synopsyis of that page.

Calm Authority
Attention -dogs are social and thrive on attention use it to reinforce good, and ignore certian bad behaviors
Good Relationship based on cooperation not dominance
Food - you control the food
Toys many dogs are toy motivated, playing a way to increase dogs bond with you

[manda.sue]

I see Cracker wrote "frozen PB" in a kong. I usually stuff a hollow bone with PB for my pup before he goes in his crate. It's so cute because as soon as I take it out, he'll go lie in his crate waiting for it. Anyway, I've replaced a lot of those bones because the insides get all porous and yucky. Are kongs really safe to freeze, and do they hold up really well getting filled and licked and chewed and washed? I only ask because I don't have any experience with them. If I can find a better alternative to filling bones, I'm all for it![/quote]

[Noobs]

We don't do pack rules here, Emma& Tess - that was once a fashionable idea but modern training has progressed beyond that. Stay with us and read more threads and you'll see why.

Have you read Victoria's book it's Me or the Dog. Read it and you will find why I said you have to be the pack leader. Page 20

I consider myself duly rebuked however I stand by what I have said - check the publication date, understand that a book takes about a year from completion to publication and that ideas change. Of course this is confusing because when people consult a book they can't be expected to know these things.

Pack rules are a blast from the past - training ideas have moved on a long way from that. Thank goodness.

That's funny Nettle, the first thing I thought when I read Emma&Tess's post was CM, because he just had an episode where the dogs in the household had separation anxiety and he told the owners the same thing - that the dogs were getting anxious because their "followers" were leaving. So I thought that's what the motivation was behind that post.

[Feathers]

We always froze melted cheese and peanut butter in a red kong when we had our first dog... years ago... we never had any problem with it... but that dog was more of a licker than a chewer...