HELP!!!

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nessiesmom15
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HELP!!!

Post by nessiesmom15 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:01 pm

My dog never comes to us when she is outside. We hate to put her on her chain(which is an ineffective punishment) and we hate to keep her in her kennel. What should I do?
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Noobs
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Post by Noobs » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:26 pm

I'm sure the folks here will ask you for more information, such as:

1) Age
2) Breed
3) Diet
4) Activity (daily exercise routine)
5) What sort of training do you do? Clicker, etc.?

Meanwhile check out these links as this question gets asked a lot and you'll probably get all the same information again.

http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=3435

http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=3556

http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=3534

http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=3611

Good luck, and until more people reply and/or you provide more info, browse those threads and see if they help.

Fundog
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Post by Fundog » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:28 am

We also need to know more about your yard, such as how big it is, whether it is enclosed, etc. Supposing your yard is fenced, and the dog is not free to roam the neighbohood, what are the occasions for calling her to you? Are you trying to get her to come inside? Are you calling her for a meal? For a walk? For a trip? What?

And... you're right, a chain is not an effective "punishment." There is no such thing as an effective "punishment" for a dog. "Punishments" should be reserved for criminals and juvenile delinquents, not animals. However, if your yard is not secure with a fence or other method of keeping your dog confined on your property, then you do need to find some other device for keeping her-- there are other "tie-outs" and things that are made of a much nicer, gentler, safer material than a heavy metal chain.

But you do need to make sure the dog is getting taken out for a walk every day-- a long one, not just around the block. And "running around in the yard" is never sufficient exercise, no matter how big the yard is. You will find a daily walk to be highly therapeutic in resolving many of your dog's undesirable behaviors.

nessiesmom15
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okay

Post by nessiesmom15 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:53 pm

my dog is a puggle and she is about 9 weeks old she eats iiams puppy food we live in the country by the highway we dont have any fences because we cant afford the fencing when we got her she had no training and so we try to give her a treat after she does something but that doesnt work we've had her for about 4 months and my mom is ready to give her away. :cry:
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Post by emmabeth » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:56 pm

Oh dear - this isnt your fault but the fencing... comes first! Then the dog comes after the fencing.

That said when I first had my dogs, I had no fence either - they live in the house, and NEVER set foot outside of the house without being on a long lead (30ft, for a small dog you can use washingline type stuff). However, when I got my first dogs, I didnt live with my Mom and so there was no one there but me to decide who had to be trained to do what by when.

Im confused as to her age as you say shes 9 weeks but then you say you have had her 4 months so she cant be 9 weeks old.

Get something you can use as a long lead and never ever let her outside without that lead being on. If she does run into the highway and causes an accident, the owner (that would be your Mom) will be legally responsible for that - a WHOLE lot more expensive than a fence. (Id bet you could fence your front yard, or part of it, for well under $300. Being sued because your dog caused a multicar pile up on the highway could cost $millions.)

Rewards for training need to be really really tasty and appealing, and need to be given really fast as the behaviour happens.

So giving a dog a little bit of cheese as his butt hits the ground when you ask for a sit, is great.

Giving a dog a boring bit of kibble a few minutes after he did the sit - rubbish!

Recall problems are common, and one reason you might be up against is the beagle part of your dogs make up - Beagles follow their noses (and thats another thing Mom should have thought of!!! Beagle and Beagle x dogs NEED FENCING IN!) and you have GOT to have something better than what they are following or Snoopys not going to care about coming back.

So inside the house and outside it on a lead, you teach your puppy that whenever you say 'here', it means you have got something FANTASTIC. Something shed roll over and die for - think hot dog sausage, liver cake, cheese, ham flavoured squeezy cheese... stinky stuff that dogs generally dont get to eat a lot of.

Only ever call her using the word 'here' when you have something great for her, and when shes not going to ignore you (so , when shes sat looking at you is a good time - when shes got her head in the kitty litter tray seeing what kitty left.... bad time!).

The idea is that responding to the word 'here' becomes an automatic response, a habit. If you start off by only ever asking her to come to you when shes likely to, and you have something great, or you have her on a lead and she cant ignore you - she will learn to always come when asked.

On the other hand if you or anyone else, has asked her to come and not had anything nice, or done something horrid (say... asked her to come to have something she doesnt like done, like nail clipping or a bath, or asked her to come and then yelled at her for coming too slow), or asked her to come, over and over and over whilst shes had her nose buried in something way more interesting so shes ignored it..... then she will learn that the recall command used means 'if you want to... I might want to do something horrid or yell at you, or I might not, but its probably not more interesting than what you are doing'....

If a dog understands that the recall command means they might get yelled at or have to do something unpleasant or just boring - its no wonder they ignore it!

Fundog
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Post by Fundog » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:46 pm

Another thing to keep in mind-- if you have your dog outside tied on a long-lead, you still need to be out there with him. He should never be tied out unsupervised, as something awful could happen, like getting himself tangled and strangled.

When we got our dog, we didn't have a fence either. She was NEVER taken out unattended. We always leashed her to take her potty, even in the middle of the night. If I was outside doing yard work or gardening, she wanted to be out with me, so I put her on a long line and tethered her to a permanent fixture, like a tree. I made sure she was not out there by herself-- I was there to keep her company, and keep her safe. And she got walked every day also.

When we did finally get our fence, it did cost us $300-- and we only needed short five foot sections/gates to close the gap between our house and the neighbors' fencing. That was five years ago, and in the US, on the west side of the Rockies.

Of course, what you really need to do is call up fencing companies and get some estimates, so you can get an idea of how much you need to save for. You can also scope out fencing materials at the DIY/hardware stores, and perhaps you can do a lot of the work yourself, to save some money that way.

Another option is instead of fencing the entire yard, you can go to the DIY store and pick up some enclosure pieces-- they are marketed for various functions, from making a small dog run, to enclosing a pool to prevent children from drowning. You can buy them in pieces, so you can make it as large or as small as you need, then assemble. They make portable ones too, ideal for camping. This might be a more economical option for you, rather than fencing your entire property.

In the meanwhile, try to sock away even just $5-10 a month, and save up until you can afford to get something to enclose your dog. Until you have the money saved up, you will have to make sure the dog is never outside off-lead/unattended.

nessiesmom15
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Post by nessiesmom15 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:09 am

Sorry I was unclear about the age. Shes older than nine weeks my mother told me wrong. This is from my mom but she thinks she is 14 weeks or 15 weeks. Well I know for a fact that she is 12lbs...I weighed her last night.
I am only 15 and I have take on a lot of responsiblity and I have told my mom we need fencing around the front and a doggy door so when we are gone she can do her business with out us there. And so she can run around without being on a chain.
And I understand how inexpensive fencing can be, but to be honest I only have a mom because my stepdad split and my mom is a school nurse with little pay, because she loves what she does she doesnt want to change it. I cant get a job because of my age. And there is a lot of pressure on me because I'm like the other parent to myself and my two sisters. So we have no spare money at all. It goes towards food and cigerates.
But I will try that training stuff...thank you, I have a good feeling about this.
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joji732
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kennel

Post by joji732 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:21 am

In your original post, you mention a kennel. Is this an indoor or outdoor kennel? Or are you talking about a crate? I only ask, because in my mind it is nicer for a dog to run free in an outdoor kennel than to be stuck on a chain. And you could build a 5X15 foot run with chicken wire fencing for under $100. I realize that may STILL be too much money, but it may be more realistic that $300 for regular fencing.

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Post by Cracker » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:24 am

If she's about 16 weeks old (4 months) it's not surprising she doesn't come to you when you are outside. Building a recall takes time, work and patience and involves very gradual working up to recall under distraction...most pups I know at that age do NOT have a reliable recall because it hasn't been taught well. If you search the forum for recall threads they may give you some ideas on how to teach a good one.

As for the kennelling or tying out. Your pup should not be left outside alone. Period. Small dogs especially are prey objects andif you live in the country a predator could get at your dog. If the pup is outside because it's not housetrained, get a crate for indoors and work on the housetraining. She is also a baby who needs attention, needs to learn how to behave in the house and needs guidance. You wouldn't leave a two year old child out in the yard alone..why leave a dog? When you cannot be watching her or are not training her or whatever she should be in a crate. For her safety, your sanity and her training and socialization you have to be doing more work with her!

I don't mean to be hard on you, kiddo...but why get a puppy if it's just to keep it outside until you want to spend time with it. I just don't get it. Please tell me if I'm reading too much into this, but should you really have a dog if you cannot give it what it needs?
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nessiesmom15
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Post by nessiesmom15 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:22 pm

We do watch her when shes outside and we do try and train her and we do keep her on a chain outside. Its just that when we let her off the chain to put her inside she runs off and she won't come back. The last time this happened was on saturday night. She wouldnt came to us so I started walking around the house and she would follow me, but everytime I tried to catch her she would take off just out of reach. So we got these cookies(doggy friendly) and we threw them out to her and she would take them and she would turn to bury them and I caught her. We put her in her kennel(inside) and scolded her, not harshly but not like we were babying her either.

And her other more severe problem is the nonstop biting. She bites my sister so heard that she gets bruises! And whenever we pick her up to cuddle she growls but once we start cuddling she is sweet and friendly. Whenever someone comes into a room she runs and jumps and starts biting them. When she does it to me I simply turn around and ignore her, but it still hurts.
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Post by Nettle » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:51 pm

Well of course she runs off when let off a chain - so would you! :)

How about putting the lead on her and then letting her off the chain? :wink:

Scolding is no use. Dogs don't understand scolding. It's just noise to them.

Dogs hate being picked up and cuddled. Sit on the floor with her and let her come to you. Then you aren't so scary to her and she won't feel the need to growl.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Pop a lead on, then take the chain off - not ONE of my dogs sets foot outside the front of my house without a lead being on it. Not getting into or out of the van, not to speak to someone outside, not for anything. Why?..... because theres no secure fence at the front of my house, and I value my dogs lives and I also could not compensate financially, anyone who was involved in an accident caused by my dogs (yep, I'm that poor).

Dogs dont like being picked up. Some like cuddles, some dont - my little Errol adores cuddles, but even he isnt massively keen on being picked up, especially suddenly and without warning.

Can I suggest you do a little test - lie on the floor so your head is around the same height off the ground as your puppies is. See how the world looks from there... scary huh! Now have someone stand over and lean down towards you - they look really weird from there and quite scary.

Anyway - shes got legs, she can use them. Shes not a baby who cant walk and has to be carried everywhere. Once you stop picking her up all the time, she will relax a little.

Also -scolding her is dumb. I could SHOUT AT YOU FOR BEING A DUMB DOG OWNER, BAD GIRL... for not knowing how to train her - but you know that wouldnt teach you anything would it. You would just think I was mean, you wouldnt want to come and post here if we all did that!

Like your puppy, you dont yet know some stuff - she doesnt know how you want her to behave, and shes not bad for not knowing that. You dont know how to teach her to behave, and you arent bad for not knowing that either - its all got to be learned first!

All of this is dog training - down to putting the lead on before taking the chain off. By doing that, you never give her the opportunity to run away. So that means she doesnt learn that 'come here' means 'run away and have fun and people chase you and toss cookies'. Thats a good thing NOT to learn.

Punishments arent a great way to train and only work if they are given instantly, so if you touch a hot stove and get burned you learn not to do that again.

If you touched a hot stove but didnt get burned until ten minutes later when you were sat in front of the TV.... would you learn not to touch a hot stove... nope!

And when you burn yourself on the stove what other reaction do you get - I know when I was a kid, i burned myself and didnt go NEAR the stove for months, which was great for avoiding getting burned again, but meant i didnt trust the stove and didnt want to be anywhere near it, and sucked for learning to cook!

Thats why punishment isnt a great thing to do with a dog - even if they do link the punishment to what they did, it also teaches them to avoid the person who gave out the punishment.

And, being pretty blunt here - you got a dog why? To be a cute fun friend for the next 12 years or so. I don't know about you, but I dont tend to stay friends with people who yell at me and do things i dont like!

So - prevent her doing things you dont want. Lead goes on before chain comes off. You'll find more areas where that applies such as biting - stick a toy in her mouth and pop a lead on before a visitor comes into the room, amuse her with the toy and she doesnt bite the visitor.

Puppies learn about their world by chewing and biting and jumping up - they do this to each other, to adult dogs and then to their new familes. Their Mom will stop spending time with them when they get like this, their litter mates will yell and move away from the bitey puppy and adult dogs will not want to be anywhere NEAR a bitey puppy.. so puppies learn that biting too hard means no one will play with them!

Unfortunately, what humans tend to do is 'play' - they dont mean to but accidentally what they do is playful. Puppy bites and human dances around making funny noises. Puppy thinks thats awesome fun and bites some more - human gets annoyed and makes angry noises and tries to grab the puppy to smack it, or turn its lips in on its own teeth (dumb idea and horrid) and so is dancing around trying to get hold of a wiggly bitey puppy.... which the puppy thinks is fun.

Eventually the human gets so wound up they either hit the puppy hard enough so it actually hurts, which long term teaches the puppy just to bite hard and mean it - or they shut the puppy otu of the room and forget it for a few hours.

Either way - the puppy has learned that biting is a fun game and gets peoples attention!

If you are sure your puppy has enough stuff she CAN bite andchew on and you play enough games with her where she can bite and rag at toys - (and thats a LOT of stuff an da LOT of games in a pups early months), then there are two parts to what you have to do.

Firstly is to stick something suitable in her mouth before she bites a person. Preventing her biting and so she doesnt learn to do it.. Or you can try to calm her down before she gets so silly she bites you - if you are having a wild game with her, slow things down, quiet down and praise her for sitting and lying down and being quiet (have treats in your pocket to encourage and reward this).

Secondly IF she does make a mistake and bite too hard, immediately put her out of the room (not the house! and not in the kennel either) for just 30 seconds 'time out'.

Too long and she forgets why she was out there and goes to do something else, like chew the walls or howl..

Not immediate enough and she doesnt learn to control herself so well.

If she doesnt have lots of things she CAN chew and bite at though, this wont work because puppies NEED to chew and bite and rag things about.

The first time you try this, she will probably come straight back in the room and try it again - its worked before and shed be pretty dumb not to try it again really! You have to stay patient and keep using the time out even if it gets boring or in the way of what you are watching on the TV until she figures out why shes getting put out of the room and learns not to bite at you.

You might also have to remind other people in the house not to wind her up - if theres small kids running around and making alot of noise, its hardly fair to expect a baby dog to not want to join in and play 'her way' - which is bitey! If thats happening then either stop people doing that around the puppy, or you take her in another room with you until they have stopped.

One thing you need to practice now is recall - recall must from now on ALWAYS mean 'come to me get a nice treat'.

What she learned on saturday, when you tricked her and caught her and scolded her inside, was that letting you guys catch her is a Bad Idea - if shed have run faster or further shed have avoided being scolded!

That has to stop now, never do that again or you will have a dog who can never be caught once off lead.

Pick a word - 'here' or 'come' .. not her name, and not whatever you have used in the past.

Use it when shes heading towards you anway and give her a treat (a small tasty one not a huge cookie to bury) and send her off again. Sometimes call her and hold her collar and give her a treat, sometimes dont hold the collar. When she knows sit and down etc, then call and ask for those sometimes and give her a treat.

Do this in every room in your house and when shes got it in the house - do it when shes on teh chain in the yard. Wiat for her to be looking at you, andshowher the treat, dont call her when shes sniffing something good or looking at something interesting.

Make it really easy for her to get things right and do what you want - right now you are making it really hard for her to figure out what you want, and really REALLY easy to get things 'wrong'.

nessiesmom15
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Post by nessiesmom15 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:57 pm

Thanks...I guess.
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emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:16 pm

How is it going?

Please remember, when I write these posts I try to stick to the information you need to get this right. THat means sometimes it can read harshly (especially on the net where unfortunately it IS full of people whojust like to be mean!).

I am really really aware though just HOW hard it is to do this when you are the kid and ultimately, an adult has the overall control over the situation - I have been there. That poor dog got rehomed (my mum got me a dog i had no hope of knowing how to handle and then when i couldnt, without any form of help, she 'got rid of him' without saying a word to me before hand - 13 years later I still feel bad for that dog!).

Put the advice you have had into practice, and send your Mom to read this too, because when you have a dog EVERYONE has to train it and stick to the same rules.

Stick around on here, some of us might come across a bit blunt and sharp at times but no ones an ogre in reality and what we all really really want is for people and their dogs to live happily together.

Fundog
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Post by Fundog » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:24 pm

Amen! Just stick with us, kid. When you finally finish growing up and get ready to start your own family, you will be not just a great dog mom, but a fantastic parent to boot. :wink:

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