Hand feeding good for dominant dog at 16 weeks?

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DannyboyStephjoy's OES
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Hand feeding good for dominant dog at 16 weeks?

Post by DannyboyStephjoy's OES »

Our OES is in the "Seniority Classification Period 12-16 weeks". She is dominant according to the trainer we used for puppy school. I have been trying to make her earn her food in the morning. I make her do sits and downs and waits and comes and she gets her food as a reward. But now she seems to prefer me to hand feed her. When we are finished exercises and I put the bowl down for her to eat the rest of her breakfast she growls and barks at it. Once I went over and gave her a bit to coax her to eat the rest and :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ohhhhhhhh, that's exactly what she wanted!

Hmmmmm :? :? :? :? I thought hand feeding established my as leader? Why does it just seem to be making me the slave of the food?
We have one puppy OES named Chiquita and two cats!
mum24dog
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Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:31 pm

Post by mum24dog »

Highly unlikely that she is "dominant". It's a term that is widely misused by trainers who think that dogs are planning to take over the world.
She's a puppy and testing the boundaries to see what she can get away with. Dogs do what works for them, that's all.
Read the link in the first post in the sticky thread on Dominance at the top of this page.
It's fine to teach a dog self control by training a wait before being released to its food but from what you've said there seems no reason at all to hand feed.
Make her sit and wait for a little time, put the bowl down, release her and walk away. Ignore her demands to be hand fed.
She won't starve.

Pam
mum24dog
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Post by mum24dog »

DannyboyStephjoy's OES
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:23 pm
Location: Virginia USA

Post by DannyboyStephjoy's OES »

oh, that's the one I was just reading. Yup, I see the point about the word choice.

I'm just trying to describe that she is definitely more bossy than leader. :lol: You should have seen her in puppy shcool and even with her doggy friend that's a year old-QUEEN OF THE DOGS! LOL!

I was trying to institute what I saw on the show. I thought Victoria was saying that feeding them shows them that the food comes from you. IE-she would be more respectful of me :? But mabey I didn't get the point. Or mabey I'm misapplying it. I guess the point is should I now adapt because it's obvious that she's come to really depend on me for the food? Or is that the point?

I'm sorry. I'm a first time dog owner and sometimes I wonder if I'd do better if I didn't read so much. I think I'm confusing myself.
We have one puppy OES named Chiquita and two cats!
Maxy24
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Post by Maxy24 »

I may have seen the episode you speak of, I think Victoria even used to use some of the dominance stuff but she has since reduced her use of it thankfully, it was one of the things I disagreed with her on. Dogs don't try to "run the pack" and be alpha they think very simply, how do I get what I want? and how do I get it the fastest? I do like having dogs do stuff for dinner simply because it's good practice with self control and commands and seeing you give instead of take food is good to prevent food guarding. So I would still have the dog run through a few commands before giving him his dinner or releasing him to it. If your trainer is saying your dog is dominant (with people) I would stop going to him because chances are he uses methods than include intimidating and bullying or even harming your dog. The dog probably enjoys the social interaction during meal time. I might start by dropping the food from your hand to the bowl and see if he'll eat from it that way then slowly progress to bigger scoops (use a cup) at a time into the bowl until one scoop puts all the food in and he'll eat it all. If you left the food out for a really long time would he eat it? He might just not understand what to do and needs to dive in and try and then he'll understand that this works for food too. If he eats dry food you could also try using a feeder ball type toy to feed him, he might enjoy the metal stimulation, my cat will eat a little bit if I feed him from a bowl but will eat all his meal right away if fed from a feeder ball.

I would try and leave the food out for a long time and don't give in when he wants you to hand feed him (unless he refuses it for over 24 hours), he needs to learn that he cannot get his food that way anymore, it just won't work, and he'll start looking for different ways even if they were not as fun as getting hand fed, if hand feeding is not available he'll look to the next most enjoyable method of eating.
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Mattie
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Post by Mattie »

When so called trainers say pups are trying to dominate us it would be funny but the damage it does to the pup and owner is too serious. Think of your pup as being a toddler in the terrible twos, testing the boundaries and having tantrums when she can't get her own way. You do need to train her now ready for her teenage hooligan stage but even then she won't be trying to take you over, like all teenagers she will still be testing the boundaries.

Stop the handfeeding, put her food down, leave it down for 20 minutes then take it up again until next feed time, at her age it won't be too long, I would still have her on 4 meals a day.

I wouldn't go back to that trainer either, she is old fashioned in her methods of training and you need a trainer who is up to date with it all. Try to set her up to do as you want so you can praise her, punishment has no place in dog training.

You should be working on her recall now, only call her when you know she will come to you and only call her once, anything else and you are teaching her it is ok to ignore you. Call her at odd times during the day from anywhere in the house, when she is 100% they you can start in the garden. If she doesn't come at first call from the garden, walk into the house and close the door, she will soon come :lol: Open the door and wait until she is walking in and give the command then lots and lots of praise. If she runs off again, close the door, continue like this until she does come in. It has never taken more than 4 times closing the door for any of my dogs the first time they didn't come in when asked to. :lol:

The stronger you can get the recall before she becomes a teenage hooligan the better, she will test the boundaries then and you will need to be alert to when and when she won't come so you don't teach her to ignore you.

Good luck with your pup, ask as many questions as you want, we love puppies. :lol:
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Cracker
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Post by Cracker »

Ahh the fun of having a smart puppy.
I agree with the others..having a sit and wait before a meal is a good impulse control exercise but hand feeding is really not necessary. Dominant=hogwash!
I would run, not walk, from any trainer that diagnoses dominance in a pup just from how she plays with other dogs.

Look for a good positive reinforcement trainer and maybe find a book or two on positive training (I especially like "The Puppy Whisperer" by Paul Owens, "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller and the Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training"). I also highly recommend for any new dog owner the book "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson...

And yes, ask as many questions as you need to..we all love puppies and really want all dogs to have the life, training and love they deserve.
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mj702002
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Post by mj702002 »

I am reading Pat Miller's book right now...very good! (I found it on Amazon for a good price the seller said it was used, but it didn't even look like it had been opened)
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