Greyhound mix & fixation

[whatthedeuce]

My dog is a husky/greyhound mix (we think). He's VERY easily trained, which is a good thing since we're first time dog owners.

I'm wondering if there is any way to train him out of his constant fixating when we're outside? I do understand he's a sighthound, and was bred to look for and fixate on things, so it's probably not something I can completely stop. But when we're out in the city walking, it makes it very difficult (and sometimes dangerous) when he's always fixated on something, or he's looking for something he can fixate on when there isn't even anything around!

I did a search for this and see there are some great greyhound experts on this board, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

We have worked a lot on the "watch me" command and he is doing very, very well with it! He loves cut up cooked hot dogs. Should we just keep working on this command with him when he starts his fixating?

He starts obedience school in 2 weeks and I'm very nervous as to how I'm going to hold his attention in class

(And by the way, in a "greyhounds trainable" post, I think Mattie said this- if you so much as look at them the wrong way or touch them and scare them, they will scream. You aren't kidding! He's done this outside with us and it's so embarrassing, I am always afraid people will think I'm beating him! Sometimes when he's fixated on a dog that's far away, I will just touch him to try and redirect his attention back to our walk, and he will scream like I'm branding him or something!)

[Nettle]

I can help with the greyhound side if not the husky!

Please would you tell me exactly what you mean when you say he fixates on something, and describe an incident, what he does, when he does it, what you do, what he does then? Thanks.

[whatthedeuce]

We will be out walking together and if there is a person (squirrel, bird, person with a stroller especially, or most of all a dog or god forbid A SMALL CHILD, his favorite thing in the world!) anywhere within view, the moment he sees it, his ears will go straight up, and his eyes will go from looking calm and relaxed to very, very alert. Sometimes his tail goes up, sometimes it stays down.

There are times that he does this, but there is absolutely nothing around that I can see that he could possibly be looking at. So it's more like, he's looking for something and not at something. I assume he hears a sound that I cannot hear and is looking for what made the sound.

Sometimes when he fixates like this, I say his name to see if I can get his attention, but he will always ignore me. If I have treats with me, I'll work on watch me, and he's made good progress but as soon as the treat is in his mouth he goes back to staring.

Sometimes when we're walking and he does it, I change direction and walk away from whatever he is looking at, just to break his stare. I think I do this because I am not sure if he wants to give chase (as he DEFINITELY tries to do with small animals) and I don't want him watching.... watching... getting more and more excited... and then deciding to start running full-speed up to a person (with a baby, oh God, no) with me in tow

Plus I also feel that when we're out and he's on a leash and we're on the sidewalk, the attention should be more on who is walking him. Maybe that's presumptuous of me, I don't know. We (my husband and I) do let him go around and sniff things here and there while on the walk but we make it under our terms, in places we allow- or else he might take a dump in a hotel's nice flower bed! and that would be bad.

[emmabeth]

A sighthound mix is always going to do this - we call it 'airplane ears' and yep, it means they have seen something.... or more likely, they have seen a flash of movement of a potential 'something'.

I do wonder if you are possibly asking a bit much here - the walks are for HIS benefit, he does pay attention to you if you have a treat (do you work for nothing?) and presumably he eats the treat so hes not sooooooo fixated he just takes it and cant actually manage to eat it..

You wont stop him being a sighthound mix, even if his legs fell off tomorrow and he was never able to run again, hes still going to be hard wired to spot movement and go 'alert'.

Work on your 'watch me', make it interesting and fun and increase the value of the rewards and the frequency at which they are given. After all if you give one treat you get one 'watch me'.... give two... he will start giving you two 'watch mes'..

You need to build up the length of time he refocuses his attention on you gradually - both breeds in his history are NOT dependant, needy breeds who will hang on your every word. They are breeds where you better make it worth their while, or they will think for themselves, and faster than you can as well!

If you dont have a treat on you - dont bother trying to get his attention. You will only teach him at this stage, that you tell fibs and may well not have rewards to back up your commands, so hes fairly safe to ignore you.

Also if you are using his name to distract, use it as a precursor to a commnad, so he will eventually know that when you say his name, you are about to give him the opportunity to earn a treat. Otherwise... dont say it! (dont wear it out!)... If you hit a situation you want to distract him from and you dont have treats to pay for his attention with, dont say a word just about turn and head the other way.

He is likely very clever, but also very VERY quick to figure out if you mean something or not, if you can put your 'money' where your mouth is, or not... but he is never ever going to be a Border Collie, (I actually, sorry collie fans, dont rate them as particularly clever - fast learners, yes, but clever to ME means 'can think for himself' and a huge number of collies CANT), hes never going to work for hours on end in the faint hope you may crack a smile at him!.

[whatthedeuce]

Oh, sure!, I don't expect to rid him of this behavior entirely.
Sometimes it's just sooo intense that I'd like to be able to redirect him so he's not staring down some hapless toddler in the parking lot. I think that's what I feel the worst about, LOL. If he's fixating on a squirrel or other dog, it may be a nuissance when he keeps pulling in their direction but it really has no effect on me or the other animal. (When we're in obedience school I guess that will be a different story.) When he's walking past a kid (or parent with a kid) and staring them down in a way that looks terrifying to them, I'd like to be able to get him to just snap out of it.

Whether or not he eats the treat is hit or miss at the moment.... Even with high-value treats like hotdogs, sometimes he'll take it happily- but then just spit it out and go back to staring. That's when I know treats aren't doing a thing and I turn around and go somewhere else.

Sounds like most of your advice is what I'm working on- using his name before a command, and I'll keep up with consistently having treats with me if I plan on working with him and not phasing them out any time soon! I definitely don't work with him for more than a couple minutes at a time, as we have seen him shut down and that's no way to make learning fun... for either of us!

[Nettle]

Brilliant advice from Emmabeth and I would have said exactly the same.

He isn't actually doing anything wrong is he? He is enjoying his walk and reacting to his environment. There would be cause for worry if he wasn't looking about him and staring at things that take his interest.

When mine do this, I let them look, and I chat because I'm a human and we make noise I say "It's only a ....." and then the dog looks at me and grins and says "I know, but it has these funny feet, and I had to look again" or similar.

Then and only then do I make the little mouth-click like you do with a horse, that means to mine, "Come on, we're going".

And I'm going to put the next it in Bold so that it sticks in your mind

Your dog does not ever pull you anywhere

Never ever let your dog drag you off your chosen path. It's bad dog manners and can be dangerous if it becomes a habit. the dog may look, but he must walk politely. One day that sidewalk may be frosty, or you may be feeling unwell.


Enjoy your dog - he sounds lovely.

[Mattie]

I do the same as Nettle, I let mine look and talk to them them I usually say lets go. With Joe and Tilly this is always enough but with Merlin it depends on what he has seen. If he doesn't focus back onto me me I know it is a very high reward he has seen like a bunny. I then walk the other way as fast as my poor old legs will take me to get him away from it because if he decided to go after it I will be flat on my face.

What I have found with Merlin, Greyhound, that as he gets older he doesn't focus as much as he did, he will still focus but not with the same intensity on rabbits or other prey. Some of this focus is curiosity and I do let him investigate if it is safe to do.

[Fundog]

[quote="whatthedeuce" When he's walking past a kid (or parent with a kid) and staring them down in a way that looks terrifying to them, I'd like to be able to get him to just snap out of it.
[/quote]

This brings up an interesting observation I've noticed in people: We seem to be so worried about others simply being "afraid" of our dogs, even if our dogs are not really doing anything abnormal or vicious, so we want our dogs to behave differently so that others are not offended or frightened. And yet-- really, if I have a secure hold of my dog, and she happens to bark at a stranger because she is trying to protect me, as she's been trained to do, I don't even bother apologizing or excusing her behavior. The other person is perfectly safe-- as long as he doesn't behave like an idiot and try to approach me. I think what I'm trying to say here is, why do we take the fears of others upon ourselves all the time? Let's say you're afraid of clowns, and you happen to go to a carnival, and there is a clown there. If the clown actually approaches you, you have a right to say something, and ask him to go away. And it would be totally stupid for you to approach the clown and then get mad at the clown because you are afraid. But if the clown is just there, minding his own business, and just happens to glance your way, not realizing you are terrified, well that's really your problem, isn't it? It's not the clown's fault you are afraid. So if some little kid gets scared just because your dog is looking at him intently, it really shouldn't be a big deal as long as you have a firm hold of your dog, and do not allow him to approach the child. We also have the wonderful gift of speech, so that we are able to say, "Excuse me, my dog really likes little kids, and I'm having a hard time holding him off, can you please just hurry on past?" I've had to say that with bicyclists who want to stop and chat and admire my Annie, while all the while she wants to tear that bike to shreds.

[whatthedeuce]

With both kids and people, if either make eye contact, he thinks that's his cue to say "allll riiiiiiight! A new best friend!" and lunge at them with all his might. He's very submissive, he will lunge but do almost a crawl toward the person or walk with his head low to them, but he does it full force, and it's very difficult to keep control of him when he does it. He's big, I'm little. I can usually walk past people with no problem, but it's those people who will, just once in a while, make eye contact- and I won't know until they're right there that they're going to make eye contact with him- so it's not like I can always just turn and go the other way. Or else we'd have to avoid every person we ever encounter when we're out, which would be impossible.

I am getting a little confused I guess and would like to see a lot of the regulars on this board with their dogs walking, and how they handle things, so I can learn and see it in person... Please don't jump all over me for saying this because I'm not saying it to be rude. I get the impression sometimes that it's totally and completely wrong for a person to correct a dog, ever- physically, verbally, in any way. But then I am reading, "Never let your dog pull you anywhere" for the same reasons that I'm thinking, it can be very dangerous, especially in a city with cars whizzing past, etc. I know that he shouldn't be pulling me anywhere and lord knows I've had to do a lot of work to get him to know that, too. So I feel like if he tries to pull, I have to stop him from doing so, how do I do that without a correction of some sort?

In a situation where he's not supposed to be allowed to pull me anywhere, if a person makes eye contact, he's going to pull like hell to get to that person. But on the other hand, I'm reading that he's not doing anything wrong, and that he's just enjoying his walk, and wants to make friends, and it's not his fault if a person makes eye contact, etc. Unless I pull back on the leash (which would be a physical correction, right?) how am I supposed to stop him? I am just feeling like from things I read on here, to pull back on the leash at any time, ever, is one of the most horrible things a person can do to a dog, but sometimes to me it seems there is no alternative. It's very confusing.

[whatthedeuce]

With both kids and people, if either make eye contact, he thinks that's his cue to say "allll riiiiiiight! A new best friend!" and lunge at them with all his might. He's very submissive, he will lunge but do almost a crawl toward the person or walk with his head low to them, but he does it full force, and it's very difficult to keep control of him when he does it. He's big, I'm little. I can usually walk past people with no problem, but it's those people who will, just once in a while, make eye contact- and I won't know until they're right there that they're going to make eye contact with him- so it's not like I can always just turn and go the other way. Or else we'd have to avoid every person we ever encounter when we're out, which would be impossible.

I am getting a little confused I guess and would like to see a lot of the regulars on this board with their dogs walking, and how they handle things, so I can learn and see it in person... Please don't jump all over me for saying this because I'm not saying it to be rude. I get the impression sometimes that it's totally and completely wrong for a person to correct a dog, ever- physically, verbally, in any way. But then I am reading, "Never let your dog pull you anywhere" for the same reasons that I'm thinking, it can be very dangerous, especially in a city with cars whizzing past, etc. I know that he shouldn't be pulling me anywhere and lord knows I've had to do a lot of work to get him to know that, too. So I feel like if he tries to pull, I have to stop him from doing so, how do I do that without a correction of some sort?

In a situation where he's not supposed to be allowed to pull me anywhere, if a person makes eye contact, he's going to pull like hell to get to that person. But on the other hand, I'm reading that he's not doing anything wrong, and that he's just enjoying his walk, and wants to make friends, and it's not his fault if a person makes eye contact, etc. Unless I pull back on the leash (which would be a physical correction, right?) how am I supposed to stop him? I am just feeling like from things I read on here, to pull back on the leash at any time, ever, is one of the most horrible things a person can do to a dog, but sometimes to me it seems there is no alternative. It's very confusing.

[Fundog]

In response to Deuce's first paragraph: Oh, yes-- I see what you mean. Completely understandable.

Last two paragraphs: I know what you mean, Deuce, and I feel your angst. I'm totally with you there. (Psst... just between you, me, and the gatepost, sometimes nobody else really fully understands how to handle my own dog better than me-- when it boils down to the brass tacks, I do what has proven to work best for me and my dogs, and my circumstances, and to heck with what all the "experts" say. If that includes physically wedging my dog between my knees to protect someone from being bitten, then so be it.) Bottom line, don't let all the peer pressure here get to you-- nobody's calling the "Department of Dog and Human Services," or "Doggy Protective Services" to report you for telling your dog "no," or for giving a mild leash correction. That's not the same as using a choke chain or electric shock collar.

Here's an example: When I walk my bird dog, it is completely typical and "doggy" of her to go stuff her head inside (literally!) all of the shrubbery along the way. I understand this need, and I accommodate it. I've learned most of her favorite trees and light poles, and I've prepared myself for the fact that she is going to lunge over to that spot to "read her pee-mail." This is okay, because she's my dog, and I'm the one walking her, and it doesn't bother me-- that much, lol.

The second example, however, is my setter that I just got two weeks ago, it turns out, has a thing for cars-- she is a car chaser. This is a very dangerous fetish for a dog to have. So when I'm walking (and I'm walking two dogs at once now), and I see/hear a car coming, I have to use a gentle correction: I wrap any slack of the lead up around my hand, make sure I have a very firm hold, and just as I see my dog's body tense to lunge, I say "no," and give a very mild tug on the lead. I do this before she actually reacts, and then I praise her for not reacting, even though what happened is that I pre-empted her. Maybe someone else might disagree with my method, or be more fond of a different technique-- but this technique works for my dog, and has kept her safe, and has not appeared to hurt my relationship with her in any way, so I don't feel the least bit guilty about it. I don't feel I'm abusing my dog by this method.

I hope that helps-- Don't be too hard on yourself. Just the fact that you are on here, asking questions and trying to learn already puts you leaps and bounds ahead of many, many other dog owners out there. Just being here means you are doing great!

[Nettle]

I wish you could walk with me too - it would be fun and also save a ton of typing

Body-blocking is the way. I am 5' 4" and have tall dogs, but I am taller than they are, and I do not hesitate to block their line of vision with my body if need be. That takes away the reward of looking at what they want. I then redirect their attention with my voice and if necessary I will block them away by walking against them to push them back.

Dogs body-push between themselves and they understand it. Humans tend to pull a dog to where they want it, hence the dog pulls back, but it is much better if we push ie get your thighs against the dog and walk it back into a place that is away from who/whatever it is eyeballing.

Every dog has a 'reaction distance'. Within that distance, the dog will pull towards or try to run away. Find your dog's reaction distance and if you think he's going to lunge, don't wait for it to happen but push him out of his reaction zone and then give him something to do.

[whatthedeuce]

Nettle, how about you upload some video instruction via youtube? That would make things easier for sure!

Fundog- what you said about you knowing what kind of method works best for your dog makes me feel better because if I do have to tug on the leash at all, I feel like I'm doing something wrong. But sometimes it seems like the only way.... So I come on here to see what other options there are and I get a varied range of "correcting your dog physically or verbally is wrong" (which seems like then he would always get his way?) to "you should always be the boss of your dog and let him do what he wants when you say so."

It's been confusing.
But thanks everyone for your help, and I'm glad to know his behavior *is* normal and something I need to learn to work with.

I'm just want to teach him "It's okay to look, but don't get the idea in your head that when you're on a leash you're going to go and chase what you're looking at."

[emmabeth]

I dont recommend 'corrections' and we have been round this merry go round before.

What happens when you get in the habit of jerking the leash a little to get your dogs attention or correct something you dont like is baaaaaaad...

Its primarly bad for your attitude and mindset - doesnt happen to everyone, no, but it happens to ENOUGH that its a huge problem for dogs.

What happens is, you forget about any problem until it occurs... then you 'correct' it... You dont learn to pre-empt the problem, you dont teach the dog to do something else.. you wait until there IS a problem then then try to distract at first.. and usually somewhere down the line you do wind up having to use so much force (verbal or physical) that you have fallen into the trap of yanking your dog off his feet or bawling at him in the street.

Even if that DOESNT happen to you, is it not better to pre-empt behaviour and employ a pleasant distraction?

So if your dog takes eye contact from other humans as a signal for 'yes your my best friend ill leap on you now'... when you see other humans coming you distract BEFORE they can get near enough to make eye contact.

(How you do that can vary, with one of mine a squeaky ball would do fine, with another squeezy cheese, with another an about turn and go the other way).

If YOU learn to react before he does, theres no need to correct anything. In any case even if correction didnt set you and the dog down a very negative path with a high risk of failure, it plain and simple isnt very effective.

You might think its hard to learn to pre-empt such things, but come for a walk with me.... I have a radar so finely tuned to looking out for my dogs triggers (small snack type dogs) its almost like a nervous twitch! (I find myself reaching for the squeezy cheese or the squeaky ball when I see something small and cute and im not even WITH my dog!). Hes not actually had an 'incident' with a little dog in years (and has had plenty of perfectly reasonable meet n greets iwth his former triggers too) and still the level of awareness remains.

And that might sound like a lot for you to learn, but it sure beats the hell out of allowing him to make the mistake of starting an incident with someone elses dog and then attempting (pointlessly) to 'correct' him afterwards.

Once you do start doing this on walks, you will develop a much better relationship with your dog (as well as a nervous twitch) and you will be astounded at the number of people who wander along as me mum used to say 'thumb up bum, mind in neutral' without a CLUE as to what their dog is thinking/planning/doing.

Specifically for whatthedeuce - if you are worried about people being scared of your dogs appearance/reaction, what i find good is as Nettle says, chat along to your dog.

If you are correcting or shortening the lead or generally acting tense then people will assume there is likely to be a problem.

If on the other hand you are saying, (as i do to my airplane eared orange fool) 'Oooh.. have you seen something terrrrrrrrribly exciting... oooh is it a big scary wheely bin with eyyyyes on it... no its not a monster its a snowman... those are HORSES not antelopes you silly orange muppet' etc etc.. then the whole situation becomes a lot funner and a lot less 'omg that dog is going to eat someone'. (And if you are silly and relaxed and not arguing 'no focus on ME i am your two legged god of food' then your dog will chill out more!).

[Mattie]

I am getting a little confused I guess and would like to see a lot of the regulars on this board with their dogs walking, and how they handle things, so I can learn and see it in person... Please don't jump all over me for saying this because I'm not saying it to be rude. I get the impression sometimes that it's totally and completely wrong for a person to correct a dog, ever- physically, verbally, in any way. But then I am reading, "Never let your dog pull you anywhere" for the same reasons that I'm thinking, it can be very dangerous, especially in a city with cars whizzing past, etc. I know that he shouldn't be pulling me anywhere and lord knows I've had to do a lot of work to get him to know that, too. So I feel like if he tries to pull, I have to stop him from doing so, how do I do that without a correction of some sort?

What do you consider are corrections?

You can't teach a dog to walk nicely on a lead by using corrections because the dog doesn't know what you want him to do, you need to encourage him to walk nicely on a lead. There is a stick thread on teaching a dog to walk on a loose lead, there is some very good ideas in that thread. Your dog needs to be taught not to pull you, if you try to do this with corrections he will continue to pull.

In a situation where he's not supposed to be allowed to pull me anywhere, if a person makes eye contact, he's going to pull like hell to get to that person. But on the other hand, I'm reading that he's not doing anything wrong, and that he's just enjoying his walk, and wants to make friends, and it's not his fault if a person makes eye contact, etc. Unless I pull back on the leash (which would be a physical correction, right?) how am I supposed to stop him? I am just feeling like from things I read on here, to pull back on the leash at any time, ever, is one of the most horrible things a person can do to a dog, but sometimes to me it seems there is no alternative. It's very confusing.

Are you walking him on a collar? A collar only controls the neck, it leaves the head and body free to do what it wants. A dog that pulls on a collar, especially the long sighthound neck, can do a lot of damage to the neck and trachea.

There are many harnesses that will give control over the dog's body, if the body is under control there isn't much the neck and head can do because it won't reach very far. With some harnesses they discourage a dog from pulling and give even more control.

It doesn't matter what gadget you use on a dog, collar, harness head collar etc, you still need to teach your dog to walk properly on a lead with no corrections.