Greyhound mix & fixation

[whatthedeuce]

It doesn't matter what gadget you use on a dog, collar, harness head collar etc, you still need to teach your dog to walk properly on a lead with no corrections.

Trust me.... I know I need to teach him, and I've been working with him on this since we got him in June

We tried a regular collar. Then a gentle leader harness. Then a prong collar. Then back to the regular collar, since for him that's what has worked the best. I've read the sticky thread about 20 times now and feel like I've tried it all, but maybe not correctly. I'm happy with him being better, but it seems like when we try something new, of course he won't get it right away- it takes a while, so we give him some time and if he's still not getting it, we try something new. I've had two trainers work with me (and him). One was all about turning and going the other way when he starts going too far ahead, which worked some, but not 100%. The last trainer I hired yanked the crap out of him and his whole upperbody was in the air, it was insane.
After that experience, I felt like I should just appreciate that he knows to stay somewhat beside me and leave it at that. I feel like I've been trying everything, just haven't perfected it yet I feel like such a failure but at least he is better than he used to be. I feel like we'll never get it. It's so discouraging because I know he isn't to blame, I am.

If on the other hand you are saying, (as i do to my airplane eared orange fool) 'Oooh.. have you seen something terrrrrrrrribly exciting... oooh is it a big scary wheely bin with eyyyyes on it... no its not a monster its a snowman... those are HORSES not antelopes you silly orange muppet' etc etc..

This sounds like what I try to do with him, too- he tends to scare easily, so I say things in a calm but happy-ish voice to try and soothe him and get him to relax a little. Sometimes if a person walks by and he's especially interested in them I'll say something like "You silly... that person doesn't want to be your new best friend today!" so they know he just wants to be friends and isn't trying to be aggressive.

[emmabeth]

Here I have to say 'hey, not everyone has got cheeeeese in their pockets you know' when some of mine expect a passer by to be their new best friend!

It might help with your frustration if you stick to the about turn method (using a body harness as well as the collar and a double ended lead).

Write down your criteria if you like, you dont have to have a 'locked on your eyes not actuallylooking where im going you could walk off a cliff and id just plummet to my death with you' competition style heel from your dog.

My requirement is that the lead is kept loose and the dogs head/neck are by my thigh (or knee dependant on dog heehee).

My other requirement is that when asked to do something, they do it without me repeating myself. I dont mind if a sit is sideways or a down is flat out on its side, but i DO mind if i am ignored (so i set it up so i am not ... i dont ask if i think i will be, i make sure theres good payment to be had if i get what i ask for).


I found i got really really hacked off with attempting to get from A to B without the dog pulling me. It would take hours and ive got four dogs who all have their individual needs, it taking hours to get to the park is not really an option.

What actually IS an option though..... is not going to the park! Yes..... really! (Or wherever, not doing that circular loop you do every day, not going from a to b and back to a again, not going .... doesnt matter..)

When you train for its own sake rather than 'on the way to...', you immediately remove YOUR frustration at 'jeeeeeez this is taking blummin forever we will never get there'.... AND you remove your 'oh well its the last 10 yards so pull then....' AND you remove your ' oh FFS... its nearly time to set off home again and we only got half way'.

Removing all these things is removing an opportunity for failure.

The other thing that happens is that when walks stop being a trip from A to WOWOMGREALLYEXCITINGPLACE.... and start being training sessions, your dog thinks about them differently as well.

The lead and harness and what have you going on become a signal for 'time to work and earn rewards and ooh what will i do now'.

After the first few days of very seriously NOT going on a set route or to a set place, the excitement that causes a dog to pull in an effort to get to somewhere faster diminishes.

What you replace this with though, is (asides from needing to not care that your neighbours think you have gone loopy) set, timed training sessions on the lead, outside.

So instead of daily 'we go to the park and we go this route and we are home by this time'..... you go outside and you do 'not pulling on the lead doesnt matter where we go' for x amount of time.

You will probably find your dog is shattered after this kind of walk, so build the time up slowly (do more, but shorter sessions at first, to make up for missing out on fewer longer ones).

Stick with it, it might well take weeks, and to set yourself up to succeed more easily, avoid known routes, and avoid busy places at first.

You might think you are going maaaaaaaad about turning and quick marching over the same few yards of pavement but it will pay off in the end.

At the same time as this, you do also (more so for some people than others, especially for those whose dogs now view them as a dead weight, a land-anchor to be draaaaaaggggggged everywhere but otherwise serves little purpose) have to reinvent yourself as THE most exciting, unpredictable treat 'fruit machine' (and hidden squeaky toys and hidden scent filled fur dummies) ever.

That means springing surprises (of the nice kind!) on your dog, keep a clicker and treats on you and in pots around the house (in none-surfable places!) and having little training sessions when you are sat watching tv, sat at the computer, cooking dinner, hey ive even clicker trained whilst i was sat on the toilet! (no one gets to go to the toilet alone in my house ).

It also means takign the edge off your dogs mind with food that requires working at (kongs, frozen stuff etc) and puzzle solving things (nina ottoson toys are great for this).

I do all this with my dogs, especially my super reactive lurcher and the result is that when i open my mouth to say ANYTHING, i have four dogs all at least semi (hey one is a deerhound who thinks she knows it alllll!) interested and at least two are likely to start offering me behaviours they already know in an attempt to win the first prize.

That does transfer to on walks as well if you keep it up - it is astounding the number of people who trundle along saying (verbally or otherwise) nothing to their dogs, havent seen the things that have caught their dogs attention, or are likely to, and give them no reason at all to pay attention to them, until the dog does something they dont want him to do, which for these people... happens very frequently and they wont have a clue why.

Anyway, once 'a walk' means 'opportunity to earn lots of treats and do things' instead of 'go to B and hurtle' or 'see what we can see'... THEN you can start chucking in going to the park, or getting wtihin leash distance of a lampost and saying 'ok go sniff' etc

[Mattie]

It doesn't matter what gadget you use on a dog, collar, harness head collar etc, you still need to teach your dog to walk properly on a lead with no corrections.

Trust me.... I know I need to teach him, and I've been working with him on this since we got him in June

You got him in June and have tried so many ways to get him to walk nicely on a lead, you have not given any of the methods enough time to work.

We tried a regular collar. Then a gentle leader harness. Then a prong collar. Then back to the regular collar, since for him that's what has worked the best. I've read the sticky thread about 20 times now and feel like I've tried it all, but maybe not correctly. I'm happy with him being better, but it seems like when we try something new, of course he won't get it right away- it takes a while, so we give him some time and if he's still not getting it, we try something new. I've had two trainers work with me (and him). One was all about turning and going the other way when he starts going too far ahead, which worked some, but not 100%. The last trainer I hired yanked the crap out of him and his whole upperbody was in the air, it was insane.

3 collars and 2 trainers in 8 months, this isn't giving enough time to work apart from the trainer wh yanked the crap out of him, you gave too much time there.

Yanking the crap out of him this trainer has done a lot of damage mentally to your dog and may have done considerable damage to his neck especially if he has the Greyhound neck, you now have a very difficult job of turning this round in his eyes, do as Em says, walk him on a harness with a double ended lead so you can have one end clipped on the harness the other on the collar but DO NOT WALK HIM ON THE COLLAR. He has been severly hurt being walked on the collar so only use that as extra security.

After that experience, I felt like I should just appreciate that he knows to stay somewhat beside me and leave it at that. I feel like I've been trying everything, just haven't perfected it yet I feel like such a failure but at least he is better than he used to be. I feel like we'll never get it. It's so discouraging because I know he isn't to blame, I am.

This is quite a good start, accepting what he has to offer, as for feeling like a failure you haven't given yourself enough time to find out if you are or not. I would say not because you have asked for advice so will get there eventually but sometimes it can take years. The most important thing when training a dog to do anything is be consistant, the more consistant you are the quicker your dog will become, you haven't been consistant up to now so now you are going to be.

Go back to the beginning with a harness on, I don't bother with treats until the training sesson has finished otherwise I would be stopping and starting all the time and not training my dog.

Most people make the mistake of letting the dog get too far in front of them before turning, they are not unpredictable enough, you need to make yourself unpredictable when he is on the lead so he HAS to watch to see what you are doing. To become unpredictable, AS SOON AS HIS HEAD GETS INFRONT OF YOUR HIM, turn and walk the other way. When his head is in front, it only has to be a couple of inches and he can't see you turn. It won't take long, usually it is under 10 minutes, for a dog to start to watch his owner and to watch his owner he has to walk next or slightly behind him. As soon as your dog takes 2/3 steps next to you, lots and lots of praise but continue with the training, don't stop to give a treat. Treats can be given at the end.

Pick a method and stick with it, don't give up after a week or two but usually it doesn't take this long. My dogs still get excited when out, all I need to do now is stop, once I stop my dogs check and say "Sorry Mum, I was too excited", and start to walk on a loose lead. I may have to do this 2/3 times when we first go out but they don't pull because I stop before they start pulling.

If you don't let your dog pull he will learn not to.

Good luck, I am sure you can do this.

[whatthedeuce]

emmabeth, you should copy and paste your response into the walking on loose lead sticky at the top of the page! There is a lot of good advice in there that I hadn't seen anywhere else [yet].
And while working with him on the lead- I am trying to be practical with him.... I know that I myself wouldn't want to follow anyone that blindly (walk off the cliff with me), so why should he?

Our apartment complex consists of two buildings with sidewalks around them. There are days when we just stay around the complex, here on the sidewalks, and work on training. If I do that once or twice a week, I end up feeling sorry for our dog and want to take him somewhere fun for him. But thanks to your advice, I now know that working with him here for days on end won't be a bad thing, and some days we can do work here and then I can let him run around loose in the courtyard (and work on recall) after a training session, as he sees that as a great joy and will be his reward at the end.

Mattie- luckily, he doesn't have the body of a greyhound- just the legs!! and short hair!
His head and neck and chest are more like husky, he's looks like a tall husky with short hair. He doesn't have a long neck nor a deep chest. After the trainer came, my husband and I have been working with him on just the collar and he's greatly improved- so since he's getting better, and used to the collar now, I thought maybe we should stick with it... What do you think?

The trainer who yanked him was also watching me when I walked with him and turned the other way, and she sometimes uses that technique and said the same as you- I was letting him get too far ahead, or being too gradual with my turn and he was able to keep up (and then some) with my every move.
My husband will walk him and sometimes go in figure eights, from side to side, 90 degree turns, almost like he is dancing with our dog. And, our dog definitely pays attention then!!

The last 2-3 weeks or so we've been doing a technique (and my husband combined it with the word "slow", so our dog is learning even better and starting to correct himself before we have to say a word) where I take one or two steps and expect our dog to stay at my side. When he didn't go ahead he got a reward. When he did go ahead we turned around and started again from the other way. This has made a huge difference and seems like it's making the most progress.
So, when we start our walk, I always start out by doing this for a little while in an area with no distractions. And when we do just walk around the apartments and there aren't a lot of distractions, he is almost perfect. It's incorporating distractions into the mix when he tends to start to lose it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you again for all the advice, and helping me learn to speak dog:

a trip from A to WOWOMGREALLYEXCITINGPLACE...

[whatthedeuce]

emmabeth, you should copy and paste your response into the walking on loose lead sticky at the top of the page! There is a lot of good advice in there that I hadn't seen anywhere else [yet].
And while working with him on the lead- I am trying to be practical with him.... I know that I myself wouldn't want to follow anyone that blindly (walk off the cliff with me), so why should he?

Our apartment complex consists of two buildings with sidewalks around them. There are days when we just stay around the complex, here on the sidewalks, and work on training. If I do that once or twice a week, I end up feeling sorry for our dog and want to take him somewhere fun for him. But thanks to your advice, I now know that working with him here for days on end won't be a bad thing, and some days we can do work here and then I can let him run around loose in the courtyard (and work on recall) after a training session, as he sees that as a great joy and will be his reward at the end.

Mattie- luckily, he doesn't have the body of a greyhound- just the legs!! and short hair!
His head and neck and chest are more like husky, he's looks like a tall husky with short hair. He doesn't have a long neck nor a deep chest. After the trainer came, my husband and I have been working with him on just the collar and he's greatly improved- so since he's getting better, and used to the collar now, I thought maybe we should stick with it... What do you think?

The trainer who yanked him was also watching me when I walked with him and turned the other way, and she sometimes uses that technique and said the same as you- I was letting him get too far ahead, or being too gradual with my turn and he was able to keep up (and then some) with my every move.
My husband will walk him and sometimes go in figure eights, from side to side, 90 degree turns, almost like he is dancing with our dog. And, our dog definitely pays attention then!!

The last 2-3 weeks or so we've been doing a technique (and my husband combined it with the word "slow", so our dog is learning even better and starting to correct himself before we have to say a word) where I take one or two steps and expect our dog to stay at my side. When he didn't go ahead he got a reward. When he did go ahead we turned around and started again from the other way. This has made a huge difference and seems like it's making the most progress.
So, when we start our walk, I always start out by doing this for a little while in an area with no distractions. And when we do just walk around the apartments and there aren't a lot of distractions, he is almost perfect. It's incorporating distractions into the mix when he tends to start to lose it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you again for all the advice, and helping me learn to speak dog:

a trip from A to WOWOMGREALLYEXCITINGPLACE...

[whatthedeuce]

Oh andplusalso, Mattie what you said here:

all I need to do now is stop, once I stop my dogs check and say "Sorry Mum, I was too excited", and start to walk on a loose lead. I may have to do this 2/3 times when we first go out but they don't pull because I stop before they start pulling.

sounds exactly like him a lot of the time now. We stop walking and he doesn't actually pull us, he'll stop and correct himself most times. The only time he does actually pull is when he's on his lead, searching intently for the perfect square centimeter he will grace with his poop.

[Mattie]

Mattie- luckily, he doesn't have the body of a greyhound- just the legs!! and short hair!
His head and neck and chest are more like husky, he's looks like a tall husky with short hair. He doesn't have a long neck nor a deep chest. After the trainer came, my husband and I have been working with him on just the collar and he's greatly improved- so since he's getting better, and used to the collar now, I thought maybe we should stick with it... What do you think?

You need to turn quickly and move the other way quickly, this will jerk his neck if you have the lead on the collar so better on a harness for this. It doesn't jerk his neck like it would if it was deliberately jerked but does put a bit of a pull on it.

See, you are getting there with him, well done You want little steps, sometimes these little steps can hardly be seen but they do add up to big strides so how little the improvement is doesn't matter as long as there is improvement.

Sometimes we get so intense that we can't see improvement, this puts stress on us which then puts in on the dog, we also need to learn how to step back and look from a distance so we can see an improvement. If we also look back to how our dogs were 3, 6, 9 etc months ago, we then realise just how far they have come.

[Noobs]

You might think you are going maaaaaaaad about turning and quick marching over the same few yards of pavement but it will pay off in the end.

...

Anyway, once 'a walk' means 'opportunity to earn lots of treats and do things' instead of 'go to B and hurtle' or 'see what we can see'... THEN you can start chucking in going to the park, or getting wtihin leash distance of a lampost and saying 'ok go sniff' etc

There are times during our walks that I have gone in several circles at one corner because Murphy keeps getting ahead of me. I feel like a nutjob, especially when people are passing in their cars. But he gets the message eventually! We go pretty long stretches now without my having to turn around, and I still haven't had to use treats unless it's for distraction when a person approaches.

We really don't get that far from the house these days and that works fine for me, I'm going to make sure we take this really super-slow. The only time we get really far from home is when we take the bike, but having him run alongside the bike is much easier than loose leash walking.

whatthedeuce, best of luck and keep at it. Give yourself tons of time to see progress. Sometimes it seems like there's no end in sight but little improvements keep happening without your noticing. Your last post was very encouraging! Great to hear it!

[whatthedeuce]

Yes, he is 3 years old and before we had him, he had NO rules on a leash. Ever. My friends (who had him and then gave him to us) just let him do everything he wanted, going as far as the leash would let him go. I've been told at 3 years old they are like teenagers, and will test you constantly, so all things considered he IS doing well.

I do the turning around and around at corners, too! Hahahah! And since we walk in a city, I wonder what the people driving by must think as well. Especially with my husband and me turning 180 degrees, figure 8's, stopping, turning, weaving in and out of trees or parking meters- they must think we are crazy!

[Nettle]

People often think we are crazy when we train our dogs then a while later tell us we are LUCKY because the dogs are so well-behaved