Patterdale pulls
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Patterdale pulls
I walk a patterdale cross and she pulls so much her owner has a dog trainer and has given the owner a candy collar makes (her stop pulling) but she still pulls when she has it on before she had the collar on her she would pull so hard she would throw up! her owners a bit old is there anyway i can get more control over her we make her wait until we go outside the door , ignore her when we first walk in the room , make her walk with me not infront and try to teach her more commands . Shes not a bad dog just want to play ,but she was a rescue dog and had been to around 4 homes before she came to her owner now but when i let her of her lead and theres no dogs around she will come back i had her on a long 16 foot training lead she saw another dog stared then came back but when shes of her lead with her owner she will run around crazy and if she sees another dog she will run up to it and want to play and sometimes go around the corner of the field , her owner cant walk very far at a time and she just wont come back she comes back in the house and i tried to teach her to fech so she would come back but when there sights,sounds , smells and other dogs i think she would rather play with a dog than a girl who has a rope toy how do i make myself and her owner to be more Interesting to the dog and for her owner to become TOP DOG PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME OUT ! VICTORIA, EMMABETH OR ANYONE PLEASE
Okay.
1/ Id forget about the canny collar (i assume thats the one you mean, goes over the dogs nose and back around the head to where the lead clips on).
Some dogs will accept a head collar nicely, a couple of mine do.
Some dogs will be DRIVEN to fight the restriction of a head collar and absolutely will not walk nicely in one at all.
As you have already found out, discomfort from a collar or headcollar or harness doesnt automatically mean the dog will stop doing whatever causes that discomfort, they will fight it instead and struggle and pull all the more!
I would try a halti harness on this dog. This is a simple harness with a band around the belly and a strap around the front of the chest which attaches to teh lead.
In this, the restriction doesnt appear to encourage a 'struggle and fight' response from the dog - certainly doesnt from mine and he does all manner of ridiculous things in a head collar or flat collar. Instead the dog tries to pull and is guided around to face you rather than any discomfort on his face or neck. Theres nothign there to fight and most dogs will give up trying to pull in this as pulling is simply ineffective.
As with ALL training aids, this isnt a cure, its the means to effect a cure, once you have the dog NOT pulling he/she may well be more interested in what you have to offer, ie treats in return for walking nicely.
2/ All the other issues.
The patterdale terrier is not really a 'pet' dog. They are a hard, feisty, game WORKING dog and as such need to work. There are rather a lot of patterdale and patterdale x's turning up in rescue and the above is the number one reason why.
There are a number of things you can attempt to do, adn teach the dogs owner to do, but you MUST bear in mind, that this may not be the dog for her, and this dog MAY be happier in a home with a younger owner.
You cant always train a dog to fit in perfectly with the home it has, often you can, but not always and a patterdale x with an elderly owner of limited mobility is a less than ideal match.
Now, that said, if you focus on the dogs working breed you may find the key to keeping her interested, focussed on the handler and happy lie there.
Shes bred to hunt and kill. If thats not her job now and she cant be employed ratting somewhere, then you and the owner need to recreate the elements of that to keep her amused and focussed on you.
Shes also bred to be independant, to think fast, make her own decisions a lot o fthe time, and NEVER GIVE UP. And also to be quite noisy and unlikely to back down from a challenge.
Shes going to find furry toys, toys that squeak and toys that move erratically fun. Rope toys may not be the pinnacle of doggy delight for her. Id try a furry toy with a squeaker in it, or indeed several of these.
I would get her absolutely obsessed with a furry squeaky toy. Make that toy her absolute favourite item in the whole world (if you find one that raelly floats her boat, get a stock of them! its no good if you have just one she will work for and it gets lost!).
Play with her with that toy, and BEFORE shes bored of the game, put it away where she cant have it until you or the owner get it out. It must NOT be left out for play anytime she likes or it will lose its value.
Use th is toy, in conjunction with the long line, as the toy that comes out to play when she recalls, when she sees other dogs etc. Make sure she really loves it first though!
If she does, she will soon start to look to YOU for that toy when she sees other things to play wtih.
Mean time, you must also let her socialise with other dogs, so find a training class, or ask people on walks if she can play for a little while with other dogs. It would be unfair and also very likely to lead to her ignoring the favourite toy, if she is NEVER allowed to play or greet other dogs.
Get some of those books on clicker training i recommended in another of your threads, she is likely to be sharp and intelligent so she should pick this up very fast. Clicker train her to do all manner of commands, including recall (reward being the toy if treats arent her thing), also fetching, waiting, down, stay, leave..... all this can be done at home and if you learn, you can teach her owner how to do it too.
Another thing id invest in, is a Kong toy. Get her owner to pack this with part of her daily food ration, so she has to WORK for her food, its not just there on a plate.
Working for her food, clicker training etc, will improve the bond between owner and dog and it will produce a calmer, more mentally tired dog. You will satisfy her need to be doing something and using her clever little brain to work out whats most rewarding.
I suspect your task is not easy, but dont forget, dog training is a bit of a misnomer, the hardest job for a dog trainer isnt training the DOG at all, its training the OWNER.
Good luck
Em
1/ Id forget about the canny collar (i assume thats the one you mean, goes over the dogs nose and back around the head to where the lead clips on).
Some dogs will accept a head collar nicely, a couple of mine do.
Some dogs will be DRIVEN to fight the restriction of a head collar and absolutely will not walk nicely in one at all.
As you have already found out, discomfort from a collar or headcollar or harness doesnt automatically mean the dog will stop doing whatever causes that discomfort, they will fight it instead and struggle and pull all the more!
I would try a halti harness on this dog. This is a simple harness with a band around the belly and a strap around the front of the chest which attaches to teh lead.
In this, the restriction doesnt appear to encourage a 'struggle and fight' response from the dog - certainly doesnt from mine and he does all manner of ridiculous things in a head collar or flat collar. Instead the dog tries to pull and is guided around to face you rather than any discomfort on his face or neck. Theres nothign there to fight and most dogs will give up trying to pull in this as pulling is simply ineffective.
As with ALL training aids, this isnt a cure, its the means to effect a cure, once you have the dog NOT pulling he/she may well be more interested in what you have to offer, ie treats in return for walking nicely.
2/ All the other issues.
The patterdale terrier is not really a 'pet' dog. They are a hard, feisty, game WORKING dog and as such need to work. There are rather a lot of patterdale and patterdale x's turning up in rescue and the above is the number one reason why.
There are a number of things you can attempt to do, adn teach the dogs owner to do, but you MUST bear in mind, that this may not be the dog for her, and this dog MAY be happier in a home with a younger owner.
You cant always train a dog to fit in perfectly with the home it has, often you can, but not always and a patterdale x with an elderly owner of limited mobility is a less than ideal match.
Now, that said, if you focus on the dogs working breed you may find the key to keeping her interested, focussed on the handler and happy lie there.
Shes bred to hunt and kill. If thats not her job now and she cant be employed ratting somewhere, then you and the owner need to recreate the elements of that to keep her amused and focussed on you.
Shes also bred to be independant, to think fast, make her own decisions a lot o fthe time, and NEVER GIVE UP. And also to be quite noisy and unlikely to back down from a challenge.
Shes going to find furry toys, toys that squeak and toys that move erratically fun. Rope toys may not be the pinnacle of doggy delight for her. Id try a furry toy with a squeaker in it, or indeed several of these.
I would get her absolutely obsessed with a furry squeaky toy. Make that toy her absolute favourite item in the whole world (if you find one that raelly floats her boat, get a stock of them! its no good if you have just one she will work for and it gets lost!).
Play with her with that toy, and BEFORE shes bored of the game, put it away where she cant have it until you or the owner get it out. It must NOT be left out for play anytime she likes or it will lose its value.
Use th is toy, in conjunction with the long line, as the toy that comes out to play when she recalls, when she sees other dogs etc. Make sure she really loves it first though!
If she does, she will soon start to look to YOU for that toy when she sees other things to play wtih.
Mean time, you must also let her socialise with other dogs, so find a training class, or ask people on walks if she can play for a little while with other dogs. It would be unfair and also very likely to lead to her ignoring the favourite toy, if she is NEVER allowed to play or greet other dogs.
Get some of those books on clicker training i recommended in another of your threads, she is likely to be sharp and intelligent so she should pick this up very fast. Clicker train her to do all manner of commands, including recall (reward being the toy if treats arent her thing), also fetching, waiting, down, stay, leave..... all this can be done at home and if you learn, you can teach her owner how to do it too.
Another thing id invest in, is a Kong toy. Get her owner to pack this with part of her daily food ration, so she has to WORK for her food, its not just there on a plate.
Working for her food, clicker training etc, will improve the bond between owner and dog and it will produce a calmer, more mentally tired dog. You will satisfy her need to be doing something and using her clever little brain to work out whats most rewarding.
I suspect your task is not easy, but dont forget, dog training is a bit of a misnomer, the hardest job for a dog trainer isnt training the DOG at all, its training the OWNER.
Good luck
Em
I've had several patterdales through my classes and without exception they were all really 'worky' dogs. They need to keep busy, they need action and they want to work. Unfortunately for owners, the work they were bred to do requires them to be very feisty and tenacious, and unfortunately for the dogs they choose to play with they tend to be very bitey.
I think this dog seems bored and is looking to make her own fun, as well as teaching her to walk on a loose lead, you need to help with her motivation for pulling.
I think this dog needs lots of mental stimulation, perhaps you could lend the owners a book on teh basics of clicker training (Karen Pryors 'clicker training for dogs' is a great start) which is something they can do without getting out of their chair. If they could train their dog to be useful (closing doors, picking up things that have been dropped, bringing them the phone/remote control, finding keys etc) then the dog would be more fulfilled and the owners would have a furry little slave! I don't know if dogs know they're being helpful, but mine certainly enjoy doing useful things more than their little tricks.
You might also need a really really high value toy, perhaps even something made out real rabbit skin (yukky to us but hard to please dogs go crazy for it!) and really build up the excitement by pretending it's the best toy in the world YOU'VE ever seen and ignoring the dog, that should get her interested enough for you to play really short games, always ending when the dog is excited and wanting more, and keep on like that so the dog sees the toy and thinks 'yesssss' before it will work as a distraction.
With terrier types, something they often love is attaching a lead to the toy, and moving it around so they can chase it, and try and catch and kill it.
Try playing games when you're walking her to keep her busy, throw a treat into long grass and let her sniff it to find it, play with lower value toys, do some training etc. You don't want to become just the person holding the lead that stops her from having fun.
I'm not sure what you mean by candy collar (do you mean Canny Collar?) but if it is a headcollar, don't use it in conjunction with a long line, they can jerk their heads around when they get to the end and cause whiplash type injuries.
Because she's a terrier, and because pulling is so established you might need to start making it really easy to walk nicely on the lead. Use the headcollar for normal walks, and have training sessions (after she's tired) in just her lead and collar, starting with short distances and building up. When she understands the basics of walking loosely, you can give her something to walk towards (ie throw a toy) and ask her to walk nicely up to it, when she pulls you go back to the start, and keep doing that until she walks on a loose lead all the way up to the toy.
She's gonna be great practice for you, it's not easy to keep the attention of a patterdale, and although they are extremely intelligent, they are also independent and getting that intelligence to work for you is always a struggle!
I think this dog seems bored and is looking to make her own fun, as well as teaching her to walk on a loose lead, you need to help with her motivation for pulling.
I think this dog needs lots of mental stimulation, perhaps you could lend the owners a book on teh basics of clicker training (Karen Pryors 'clicker training for dogs' is a great start) which is something they can do without getting out of their chair. If they could train their dog to be useful (closing doors, picking up things that have been dropped, bringing them the phone/remote control, finding keys etc) then the dog would be more fulfilled and the owners would have a furry little slave! I don't know if dogs know they're being helpful, but mine certainly enjoy doing useful things more than their little tricks.
You might also need a really really high value toy, perhaps even something made out real rabbit skin (yukky to us but hard to please dogs go crazy for it!) and really build up the excitement by pretending it's the best toy in the world YOU'VE ever seen and ignoring the dog, that should get her interested enough for you to play really short games, always ending when the dog is excited and wanting more, and keep on like that so the dog sees the toy and thinks 'yesssss' before it will work as a distraction.
With terrier types, something they often love is attaching a lead to the toy, and moving it around so they can chase it, and try and catch and kill it.
Try playing games when you're walking her to keep her busy, throw a treat into long grass and let her sniff it to find it, play with lower value toys, do some training etc. You don't want to become just the person holding the lead that stops her from having fun.
I'm not sure what you mean by candy collar (do you mean Canny Collar?) but if it is a headcollar, don't use it in conjunction with a long line, they can jerk their heads around when they get to the end and cause whiplash type injuries.
Because she's a terrier, and because pulling is so established you might need to start making it really easy to walk nicely on the lead. Use the headcollar for normal walks, and have training sessions (after she's tired) in just her lead and collar, starting with short distances and building up. When she understands the basics of walking loosely, you can give her something to walk towards (ie throw a toy) and ask her to walk nicely up to it, when she pulls you go back to the start, and keep doing that until she walks on a loose lead all the way up to the toy.
She's gonna be great practice for you, it's not easy to keep the attention of a patterdale, and although they are extremely intelligent, they are also independent and getting that intelligence to work for you is always a struggle!
patterdale pulls
she (owner) has got alot of clicker books ,videos leads toys but the problems is she does not really like things touching her neck what i do with the collar is wait until she is calm and put it on if shes not i wait for her to be calm then do it and her owners tried halter and harness but she always puts up such a fight and goes so crazy will you feel that teaching her more commands because when i come around shes jumping up at the door and when her owner opens the door she runs out then follow me .Do u think it would be good if i taught her to wait at the door until her owner release her or not ? also is has got a ball that is has to work for with little holes in when the food drop you and she does like one toy that makes a squeaker in it but her owner buy her loads of toys and she really only likes one help!!!!!
Loza123 said:
In short, not really, i would use the halti harness and get the dog used to wearing it without a lead being attached, just in the house at first. Take her mind off the harness being on by distracting her with games and food.
When she IS used to wearing it, then take her out wearing it - you are doign the right thing by waiting for her to calm down before going out, putting on lead etc.
The halti harness doesnt have ANYTHING that goes around the neck or face, so there isnt anything to fight. Once shes got used to waering it you should see an improvement, although im sure she will still try to bounce around in excitement.
When you walk her, keep her on a short lead beside you, enough room to move about a bit but NOT enough length to get in front of you. The closer a dog is to your side, the less likely they are to pull you off balance, but let them get ahead and its very easy even for a small dog, to pull you over.
I would take her out on some boring walks, instead of walks with the aim of getting to somewhere - just round the pavement and back home, and reward her ALL the time she is by your side - for this you need tiny tasty treats, or squeezy cheese in a tube is good.
If she pulls, Stop. If shes beside you, reward and walk. Pulls.... stop.... etc etc.
If she really is so bad that shes going to pull you or her owner over, then i suggest she is NOT walked unless its a training walk, so no walking to the shop when theres no time to train. If shes on a walk, you train by stoppign when seh pulls, and rewarding and walking when shes not pulling.
The reason for this is, if sometimes she has to walk nicely, and sometimes shes allowed to pull, she will NOT learn to walk nicely, in fact she will try harder because soemtimes, pulling works. If a thing works sometimes, we all try harder to make it happen again. If a thing NEVER works, we will give up - this is the same for dogs and humans.
If you do have to stop walks except for training walks, replace that with extra training sessions.
Teaching her to wait by the door is a good idea, teaching her to wait whilst the door is open and not to go through the door until told is another good idea.
You can also tire her out by teaching her to find various objects by name, so you start with just one, and end up with a dog knowing the difference between 'ball' 'rope', 'kong' 'duck' etc.
If she only has one squeaky toy adn likes this best, then thats the toy you use for training, and i would ask the owner to get MORE squeaky furry toys - its no good buying toys YOU like, you have to get toys the DOG likes! Thats where the hard part of dog training comes in, as i said, training the owner!
Em
Loza, ive quoted your post in the other forum here as this is already an active topic.i no u said emmabeth to use a harness but is there anything else i can use for a patterdale x that pulls like mads close to pulling me over!
In short, not really, i would use the halti harness and get the dog used to wearing it without a lead being attached, just in the house at first. Take her mind off the harness being on by distracting her with games and food.
When she IS used to wearing it, then take her out wearing it - you are doign the right thing by waiting for her to calm down before going out, putting on lead etc.
The halti harness doesnt have ANYTHING that goes around the neck or face, so there isnt anything to fight. Once shes got used to waering it you should see an improvement, although im sure she will still try to bounce around in excitement.
When you walk her, keep her on a short lead beside you, enough room to move about a bit but NOT enough length to get in front of you. The closer a dog is to your side, the less likely they are to pull you off balance, but let them get ahead and its very easy even for a small dog, to pull you over.
I would take her out on some boring walks, instead of walks with the aim of getting to somewhere - just round the pavement and back home, and reward her ALL the time she is by your side - for this you need tiny tasty treats, or squeezy cheese in a tube is good.
If she pulls, Stop. If shes beside you, reward and walk. Pulls.... stop.... etc etc.
If she really is so bad that shes going to pull you or her owner over, then i suggest she is NOT walked unless its a training walk, so no walking to the shop when theres no time to train. If shes on a walk, you train by stoppign when seh pulls, and rewarding and walking when shes not pulling.
The reason for this is, if sometimes she has to walk nicely, and sometimes shes allowed to pull, she will NOT learn to walk nicely, in fact she will try harder because soemtimes, pulling works. If a thing works sometimes, we all try harder to make it happen again. If a thing NEVER works, we will give up - this is the same for dogs and humans.
If you do have to stop walks except for training walks, replace that with extra training sessions.
Teaching her to wait by the door is a good idea, teaching her to wait whilst the door is open and not to go through the door until told is another good idea.
You can also tire her out by teaching her to find various objects by name, so you start with just one, and end up with a dog knowing the difference between 'ball' 'rope', 'kong' 'duck' etc.
If she only has one squeaky toy adn likes this best, then thats the toy you use for training, and i would ask the owner to get MORE squeaky furry toys - its no good buying toys YOU like, you have to get toys the DOG likes! Thats where the hard part of dog training comes in, as i said, training the owner!
Em
