Reactive shelter dog

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Noobs
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Reactive shelter dog

Post by Noobs »

Please bear with me while I describe my current issue. This is going to be long, but there is a question at the end, so this is partly me allowing myself to release some of my concerns and partly for asking advice. Also I've been reading this forum for a while and I notice that when people describe problems, the responses are usually to ask for more information first, so I thought I would just do as much background as possible.

My Murphy (14-month-old Black Lab mix) was a little skittish when we first brought him home from the shelter 6 months ago and I feel like he's gotten a lot more reactive lately. I am working on finding things to calm him, and I am doing Victoria's methods from the Cooper episode such as high-value treats like cheese or hotdog pieces for paying attention to me on walks, and for distracting him when we're on our porch and he sees something and starts to look hyper-alert or scared, to alleviate his stress or fear on walks.

Background: His exercise consists of running or fast trotting alongside my bike for 2 miles to get to the dog park. Then play at the park with other dogs for 30-45 minutes on weekdays, and longer on weekends. Then running/fast trotting the 2 miles back home. This is about 4-5 times per week, about 1.5 to 2 hours of activity. The other days he runs alongside the bike for about 2-3 miles and then practice walks on our street from 20-25 minutes - I prefer to do this after his run so I've worked off some energy first before the walk.

We used to walk to the park before I got my bike, but that took a lot more time (nearly 3 hours) and we would get home pretty late for eating dinner. During the late spring and early summer when we walked to the park, he was actually fine. I spent several days with high value treats (deli-sliced turkey, hotdog pieces, chicken) treating and praising when he looked at me, and in time he spent the entire walk looking up at me with his doggy-smile every few steps, even after I phased out the treats and used just praise instead. I could get him to sit and watch me if a large crowd was passing by so he wouldn't get overwhelmed. People were always passing by and commenting "What a good dog!" We would pass other dogs and while the other dog pulled its owner barking and lunging at Murphy, he would just glance at them as we passed by. We stopped for kids playing on the street who wanted to pet him and he would sit quietly while they did. He sat at every corner before we crossed the street, and he would get skittish only around large things such as bulk deliveries to a store we were passing or an awning that had steel parts sticking out of it.

At the dog park he plays well with the other dogs but I do keep an eye on him and watch for stress signals. I've had occasion to get in between him and another dog if I see that the other dog is coming on too strong and Murphy has gotten a little stiff. Most recently another dog kept running up to him as soon as he came into the park, not even giving him a chance to sniff around first and Murphy's shoulders were getting stiff so I could see he was getting nervous. So I got in front of the other dog with Murphy behind me and said "Ruby, NO!" and Ruby backed off and left him alone, and Murphy was able to sniff a little bit and run with another dog he gets along with. When a fight breaks out between other dogs I leash him right away and move him out of the area, but he still gets very agitated, growling and lunging. So with a cheerful "Let's go!", I take him home immediately.

At home he is mostly a perfect angel. In his first month here he chewed a small hole in our futon, shredded a small down comforter and two throw pillows. But we gave him more chew toys and jerky bones and that isn't an issue anymore. On days that we're home, he sleeps most of the day, which I find so odd in a 14-month-old Lab, content to put his head on my lap on the couch while we watch TV. When we go to work he's in his crate with the TV on, ice cubes, and two Kong toys that he loves (whenever he sees the Kongs he runs into his crate and sticks his head out waiting for us to bring them to him!).

I admit that people don't come over as much as they should to desensitize him to the front door bell ringing. We have food delivery come a couple of times a week and he isn't nearly as "barky" as he used to be when that happens. We have had guests come over, and he usually will bark at the door until my partner Lauren and I have a chance for one of us to get him to his "play area" (a rug in our bedroom which is just beyond the living room) on a down-stay (the "stay" part not always successful) or behind a baby gate in our second bedroom. One of us will get him to focus on us and the other lets the guests in. He makes a huge fuss for a few minutes and our guests are instructed to ignore him and turn away from him when he jumps up (which is not often anymore thank goodness). But after 10 or 15 minutes he just sits around and prefers to be in the room with all the people, content to sniff around them or watch their faces when they talk, or just lie down at someone's feet.

So here's the issue, and please offer me your opinions or any advice on what I am either doing wrong or what I need to do additionally...

He's gotten a lot more reactive outside lately and he nipped at an older man last week right after he got spooked by some orange street cones he saw ahead of us on our walk. I didn't see the man rounding the corner toward us fast enough so I had no time to body block, unfortunately. Thank goodness he only got the bottom of his jacket. He's lunged before - for example if a stray cat is too close it takes him no time at all to bark and lunge. And once I take him away from the area, if there's a person walking by at the same time and I don't see them right away (it's still fairly dark in the mornings during our walk), he'll lunge at them. Sort of like the aggression got transferred to the person because he got worked up over the cat? On our porch he's been mostly fine watching people go by, but sometimes when I see his face or ears change and he basically looks a little uncomfortable, I've gotten him to look at me and he gets a high-value treat. Sometimes though when a cat is too close to our porch or someone in particular scares him too much (man walking by reeeeally slowly or person carrying a large bag), he'll growl and bark and lunge going from zero to 10 in a split second, so I grab the leash and take him inside.

I feel like part of the reason he's gotten more skittish is that now that he's running to the park there aren't as many things around (the street with the bike lane has less foot traffic so less people than the route we took walking) to stimilate or desensitize him? This change was probably gradual which is why I didn't notice or see it coming.

At home he's always gotten scared at loud noises coming from outside or if our downstairs neighbor comes upstairs and walks by our door. But the other day someone was making noise on the street below and he wouldn't stop growling and it took a while before I could get him distracted by moving dishes in the kitchen and opening his treat jar. (When he thinks we're preparing food, no matter where he is in the apartment he runs into the kitchen to see if he can score some food.) Is he being territorial or protective?

I have gone back to kindergarten and brought back the high value treats on walks, and I watch him more than I ever used to. We still bike to the park 4-5 times per week but on our walks I will only go halfway down our block, back and forth, using a gentle, high-pitched tone of voice, praising a lot and treating when he looks at me, and I also watch his body and call for his attention when he gets stiff. I used to hurry past people but now I have him sit and wait for treats. He will glance at the person walking by and look at me for his treat, three or four times until the person is past us. I'll say, "Look at the nice man, good boy!" and treat. I even greet people with a cheerful "Hello!" (they must think I'm so odd!) so he knows I'm not afraid of them either. If there is something in our block that looks scary to him (traffic cones or contstruction barriers) and I see him stiffen up when he looks at it, I will move back a few feet until he's relaxed a bit and have him sit and watch me, and then he will look at object, I call his name and treat when he looks at me. I repeat 3 or 4 times and then walk him in the opposite direction. As of this morning he's taken to automatically sitting and looking at me as soon as I see him get uncomfortable. After a week of staying on our block, I ventured over to the next block and walked halfway down that block as well. So far so good.

I will definitely be checking out the clicker thread on this forum for more ideas on what I can teach him during clicker training. I have purchased the "Scaredy Dog" and "Getting in TTouch with Your Dog" books and they should arrive in the next day or so. I ordered Rescue Remedy and will use it as soon as it arrives as well. I have spent the last two days feeding him by hand, which is something I saw in a sample page of the "Scaredy Dog" book. I wait for him to look at me before I let him eat. Sometimes I make a bowl out of my hand and he will eat out of it, and sometimes I'll hold a couple of pieces of kibble between my fingers in such a way close to my face so that he is making eye contact with me as he is taking the food from my fingers. He eats a mixture Eukanuba with a scoop of cooked oatmeal or brown rice, a tablespoon of nonfat plain yogurt, and half a jar of babyfood with veggies or fruit (stage one only, with the fruit/veggie and water as the only ingredients).

Kudos to anyone who's read this far! I am not sure how severe this issue is and how worried I should be. I am not sure if walking him just on my block is helping or hurting. I am not sure if I should take him to more places on our walks or if that is moving too fast and may be "flooding" as I've seen people call it on this forum. I am not sure if this post has gotten too confusing to follow. But if anyone can offer any thoughts or advice or encouragement, I could really use it right now. :(

(This is the third time I've tried to post this as I kept getting that debug message. Hope this works and doesn't triple-post!)
Liz & Koa
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Fear agression

Post by Liz & Koa »

I am interested in the answers you get. I have a GSD with the same problems, but it is much worse when someone comes to my home.

I am going to try the protocol for deference program my vet gave to me. I hope it works.
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Post by Noobs »

This is so weird - I have been trying to post this for several days and kept getting the debug error and now it shows up? Uh-oh, I hope it doesn't show up a dozen times by next week. If so, sorry mods!
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Post by Noobs »

Just an update to add to my original post:

I've been putting Rescue Remedy in his water for a little over a week (and my water as well!).

I've read "Scaredy Dog" and there's a section on training your dog inside your car. I live in NYC and don't have a car so are there alternatives?

I've gone through the TTouch book and now I massage Murphy at night before bed. He loves it as far as I can tell. He lies perfectly still while I do it, and the first couple of times I massaged him, he lay for a bit and then occasionally raised his head to look me in the eye - at which point I would be so relaxed myself that I would just look back at him and smile - then he'd settle back down putting his head on the floor. He has taken to getting on the couch and sitting still next to me as if he's waiting for the massage.

My partner is much more calm on walks than I am and she's able to go further up and down our block with him than I am presently. We are still using high-value treats such as chicken and I don't plan on phasing it out any time soon but have varied the reward rate to every 2-3 looks from him now.

I started doing simple obedience commands on our porch with him and that will distract him if he's looking worriedly at someone passing by.

I am still curious about whether I can do more, whether I can go further, how far I can "push" him and how can I tell if I'm going too far for him, etc.
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Nettle
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Post by Nettle »

I could hug you. What a lovely owner. You are doing SOOOOOO well!

Just a couple of pointers:

Change the Eukanuba for something much lower in protein, additives and cereal. I'd have him on fresh food but I'm a nutrition anorak :D and I know it doesn't appeal to everybody - but you are feeding rocket fuel.

Read the walk. This is my mantra. EVERY time you can't see ahead (corner, gateway, foliage) get dog behind you and walk on until you can see again. This avoids the extreme reaction of nipping a man who appears from out of sight.

Your dog is in the last developmental fear period. Once he is over this, you can pretty much relax. Your mission is to make him feel that you will protect him at all times and in all situations just by being ahead of the game.

Does anyone else walk him? If so, they must do this too. And there may have been an external trigger for his fear - ply them with alcohol and threats until they remember :wink:
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
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Noobs
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Post by Noobs »

His regular human walkers are myself and my partner, and we both keep a close eye on his body language when we walk, so we'll keep it up. About 2 or 3 times a month a good friend of mine will walk him and feed him after work so my partner and I can have grown-up time out of the house. He lunged at a couple once with my friend, but he'd already shown that tendency with me and my partner beforehand.

We also have a regular dog-sitter for when we go away whom we've used 4 times now since we brought Murphy home. He hasn't mentioned any incidents but I'll ask him to keep an eye on Murphy when he watches him next month to look out for signs of stress.

Thanks for the encouragement, Nettle. I'll do some research on the dog food and keep plugging away with Murphy.
Missymay
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Post by Missymay »

Hey Noobs, my head trainer is Ali Brown. Want me to ask about alternatives to training in your car when I go to work tomorrow night? If I remember :oops:

Seriously, if you have any questions about the book, shot me a PM and I will ask. She is so freakin' awesome.
Kim and Asher

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotionâ€
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Post by Noobs »

MissyMay, thank you so much for the offer! My partner is from PA and her mother lives in Allentown, so we'd considered checking out the Great Companions training the next time we're in town. Unfortunately that's not an option that's available to us all the time since we live in NYC and would only be able to rent a car to go to PA once in a great while - otherwise when we visit we take a bus and leave our dog with a sitter.

I'll be shooting you a PM, and once again I really appreciate it.
Missymay
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Post by Missymay »

Oh, Ali is fantastic. She was just voted a board member of the APDT, is certified through the IAABC, judges Rally O, so many wonderful things.

Sadly, unless your dog is particularly clicker savvy, she usually asks you to commit to 3 sessions, but she does make exceptions. It often takes a whole lesson just to familiarize an owner with classical and operant conditioning and how the clicker works, hence the package.

If you are interested in her pricing for privates, let me know.

Seriously, I adore her and call her Asher's Angel. Had she not been there was any hope for this 7yo biter, not the shelter, not my rescue, not my husband. They all thought I was crazy for wanting to work with him and save him.

Well, he's mine now and is a titled Rally O dog, thanks to Ali.

And she knows. She owns a reactive dog, so she lives it. She is not just talking the talk, she walks the walk too.

I think that as the owner of a reactive dog, I was forced to come up to speed really fast. The best I can suggest is that you read everything you can get your hands on, read Pryor, Donaldson, Dunbar, McConnell, PArsons, Aloff, anything you can find.

Learn all you can about classical and operant conditioning. Google Pavlov and Skinner and Bailey.

While you do not have to understand all of this to train a dog, the more you know, the better equipt you can be to deal with your dog's issues and make good decisions.
Kim and Asher

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotionâ€
Kyrasmom
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Post by Kyrasmom »

Wow! Sorry to hijack, but Ali is my hero! Noobs, Liz, and anyone with a reactive dog, Scaredy Dog is the best book money can buy. It's helped my GSD puppy get over her fear of cars and she's getting so much better around dogs and people on walks. Noobs, as for living in NYC I didn't do the car thing either as my problems were mostly walks in the neighborhood - she's great at the dog park and other places - so I just used the front door as the threshold.

Ali is in PA? Really?! That's not too far, I live in MD .... sweet! How'd you end up working for her, Missymay? If you don't mind me asking. She was such a life saver.
Missymay
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Post by Missymay »

Me: Seriously, your book is fairly popular on some of the forums I frequent.

Ali: nice to know! hopefully the next edition will be even more popular.

Me:After reading your book, someone asked:

"I've read "Scaredy Dog" and there's a section on training your dog inside your car. I live in NYC and don't have a car so are there alternatives?"


The question was just posted as a general inquiry in a thread and not directed at me, but if you have any suggestions, I will post them (with appropriate credit to the author, of course).

Ali: yep, that's a toughie. the logical answer is that if you have a small dog, you can carry the dog in his crate to different places, take him out and work him. if he doesn't respond within x seconds to your cue, you put him back in his crate.
the purpose of using the car is to utilize it like a crate that you can take everywhere. most of the people i work with have big dogs and small cars! it's a problem cuz they can't or won't crate in the car. so it's a similar issue.

if it's a big dog in the city with no car, then apartment doors are mostly what you have to deal with.
having said that, i'd consult with jolanta benal, who is in the city and deals with reactive dogs in the city. she cowrote the book with pam dennison 'how to right a dog gone wrong in the city'. of course, you could contact pam, too!
but it would be to do work, not, of course, for free suggestions.


Ali Brown, M.Ed., CPDT, CDBC
Great Companions
http://www.greatcompanions.info/
Neffs, Pa
610 737 1550
APDT# 2806 exp. 12/08
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Author of "Scaredy Dog!", "Scaredy Dog!" DVD, and "Focus, Not Fear"
10 yr old Can CH ARCHX Acacia (Belgian Sheepdog), HIC, CGC, TDI, R1 MCL, R2 MCL, RL3X, RN, RL1X, RL2X2
3 yr old ARCHX Bing (Belgian Sheepdog), HIT, RL1X, RL2X, RL3
At the bridge: Montana (BC mix), HIC, CGC, TDIAOV, R1 CL, R2 MCL, magic dog
Kim and Asher

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotionâ€
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