Sitting when meeting people

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Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:48 am

So related to impulse control i do have a question about greeting people. THERE WAS A TIME in the misty days of olde when bax was required to sit politely before anyone pet him. this was when he got his CGC.

I deliberately moved away from that because he was still fearful of being pet and i wanted him to freely choose to run up to someone and express himself (while on a leash so i can tug him away if the person isnt interested in snuggles)

So Bax's current MO is to tug towards people while i try to make eye contact and if they seem receptive or say hi i let bax go up for snuggles. this way bax gets practice saying hi to as many people as possible.

its worked swimmingly.

this also has the added advantage of if it's someone he DOESN'T like he can tell me by just not pulling over to see them and we just walk past.

im worried though that this is going to breed frustration if im essentially teaching him to pull to get what he wants? thoughts?
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

JudyN
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by JudyN » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:32 am

Ideally, I'd go back to the basics of lead training - i.e. pulling doesn't get you anywhere. Easier said than done, of course. Because of J's size, I had a real problem if he pulled towards a treat fairy - I could stay upright if I stood still but not if I tried to walk under control to the person, and he would even redirect his frustration onto me on occasion. He's still more of a handful if he sees a treat fairy than if he sees a deer. Particularly a treat fairy he knew when he was a pup - sometimes I think when he sees someone he knew as a pup he reverts to puppy-type behaviour.

But with Bax, it's different, as you can still be in control when he pulls. If pulling means he keeps moving towards his goal then I can't see him getting frustrated, but it will reinforce the pulling. And you do want to have the option of not going up to meet someone he wants to meet without him having a tantrum, so I'd work on this, with great rewards for focus on you rather than the person.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Shalista
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:57 am

im concerned though that if bax CANT pull he wont be able to communicate when he wants to meet someone and when hed rather not.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

JudyN
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by JudyN » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:27 am

If you train (or can already do) a 'walk nicely' on lead, then you could teach a 'walk nicely in the direction you want to go'? I often ask J to choose what direction we should go ('Which way?' or occasionally 'Make your bl**dy mind up').
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

jacksdad
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by jacksdad » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:06 am

I agree, don't rely on the pulling. teach another way to "ask" to greet someone. this way you can "say no" before there is an issue be it pulling or getting up to someone who would rather not have a dog greet them.

Shalista
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:35 am

@jacksdad do you have any commentary on helpful ways i can teach bax to "ask" without him pulling? I feel like its a really fine line for "going in that direction" and "PULLING in that direction"
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

Shalista
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:27 am

on closer inspection of bax's loose leash habits ive discovered why this may be a bit harder than anticipated.

he doesnt quite PULL (well yes he does but thats another story) but hes VERY aware of exactly where the end of the lease is. and he toes that line. for example on the duration of our half mile walk today he was at the VERY end of the leash for about 90% of it (not quite what i would call PULLING but def very slight tension) . the other 10% was when he pulled off to the side to go inspect a good marking spot.

for him to "go in that direction" it literally would be impossible for him to do that without pulling.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

JudyN
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by JudyN » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:58 am

I'd have thought slight tension is fine for indicating where he wants to go. But I'd work on walking with a loose lead for most of the time - maybe you could work on the slight tension to indicate where he wants to go, and then encourage a loose lead for while you're headed in that direction. When I was teaching J to walk on lead I'd sometimes shut my eyes and be guided by what tension, if any, I could feel. It sounds silly, and you obviously can't do this for any length of time or in certain places, but it did, I think, improve my responses.

I sometimes also work on how much my arm is pulled out of alignment by the lead - if I can sense the tension but it takes no effort to keep my arm down, that's fine. If my arm is pulled up, I tend to stop or say 'walk nicely' or similar.

The size of the dog probably makes a difference - Jasper pulling hard is presumably much more noticeable than Bax pulling hard, which in a way makes it easier - and essential - to deal with.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Shalista
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Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:46 pm

The size of the dog probably makes a difference - Jasper pulling hard is presumably much more noticeable than Bax pulling hard, which in a way makes it easier - and essential - to deal with.
my thoughts exactly. i think i put up with alot of behavior from bax that wouldnt work so well with a 100lb dog
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:53 am

switched the clip on his ttouch to the chest clip and there was a marked improvement.

its still awkward with the chest clip though. its constantly between his legs, eithr under just oen arm pit or between all his legs coming out his back like a second tail. i also am not happy with the fit of his ttouch in the neck. i tightened it when we got home but it still felt like its to loose.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

Shalista
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by Shalista » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:29 am

just rememebred why i took bax off the front clip.

he just had his first batch of frustration induced zoomies. he pulled and got turned around (cause its the frotn clip) so he went NUTS blitzing back and forth flinging himself from one end of the leach to the other running as hard as he could into the end of the leash so it would flip his back end around and then blitzing t othe other side. we litterally couldnt walk he just kept going for forever. finally i just started walking and he did it the whole. way. home.

no more front clip >.<
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

jacksdad
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by jacksdad » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:58 pm

Shalista wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:35 am
@jacksdad do you have any commentary on helpful ways i can teach bax to "ask" without him pulling? I feel like its a really fine line for "going in that direction" and "PULLING in that direction"
my suggestion was brief because how you do this is completely up to you and Bax. other than not pulling there is almost no wrong answer. a common one taught is to approach to a point, sit then the person comes to the dog to say hi. I have stopped teaching that one and rather teach...dog and handler approach person to say hi. At a distance the dog can be successful, dog sits, then is released to say hi. this seems to be working better. dogs can move and behave more naturally such as moving away if they decide no more and would rather not say hi after all.

the reason I say it is up to bax as well...because I am finding that sometimes if we don't get overly focused on "dog must do what I say...PERIOD!!!!" sometimes our dogs show us something that will work much better, being their idea they also are more likely to do it, train to it quicker and make everyone's life better. so don't be shy to follow bax's lead IF he just does something that actually is a good idea.

jacksdad
Posts: 4879
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Sitting when meeting people

Post by jacksdad » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:01 pm

Shalista wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:29 am
just rememebred why i took bax off the front clip.
.....
no more front clip >.<
sometimes tools can be a great help to training...tools such as a front clip harness. but I am becoming less and less a fan of them. which isn't to say I against things like front clip or that I don't believe they work. Rather I am finding that sometimes they get in the way. that training a behavior is much more reliable in the long run.

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