Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

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BFJ
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by BFJ »

Sorry this might be a bit long as i want to try and give the full picture. I would be grateful for any advice regarding toilet training our 15 week old standard poodle puppy. There just seems to be a mix of behavior and I don't know if we are giving him mixed signals or not reacting to him correctly or what.

- He is crated at night and if we leave him alone in the house, no accidents in the crate. He stays in the crate from 9pm - 6am no problems. When he needs out in the morning (or occasionally during the night) he will bark/yelp and we go out to the spot, i say "eliminate" and he does what he needs to do and then back to the crate or up for the day.
- During the day (as i work from home) he is in a pen in the living room/kitchen area for most of the time. Although we go out for a 15-20 min walk three times a day. Sometimes he will cry/bark and when i take him out he eliminates but then sometimes he will just pee in his pen without warning, usually when he does this i either miss it or am too slow to get his lead on and him out the door. Also sometimes the crying it just for attention and tricky to work out which one it is.
- When he is out of his pen for training, playtime or to try and get him used to being around furniture etc without biting he will just pee or poop, we try to get him out the door before he finishes but usually (especially with the pee) we are too slow.

What are we doing wrong? Can anyone advise anything we should change or try? I'm trying to use clicker training at the moment, which seems to be working well for commands such as sit, down, stand etc.

Many thanks in advance.
Erica
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by Erica »

Hi there! Congrats on your new puppy. :)

With potty training, it helps to set up a schedule. Depending on the dog, they may need to be taken out every 15 minutes or 30 minutes or every hour. See if you can figure out how long he goes between pottying and then take him out a bit sooner than that (eg, if he goes 45 minutes between potties, take him out every 30 minutes).

Additionally, when you change activities, take him out. So when he goes from sleeping to playing, take him outside. When he goes from playing to resting, take him outside. Usually, after a dog drinks or eats, they may feel an increased urge to eliminate, so it's good to take them out after that as well.

If you take him out and he doesn't potty, you can crate him for a few minutes and then take him out again. Crating will prevent him from pottying in the house. If he doesn't potty again, back to the crate. Only after he has pottied would I let him walk around.

If he does begin to pee or poo in the house, I would just let him finish. Many dogs link undesired outcomes to being watched rather than their location, so they may start to hide so they can potty in peace, whether inside or outside!

Clickers are fantastic for teaching behaviors! I wouldn't use one for potty training, but I would give him a few nice treats after he potties outside, to keep stacking the decks in your favor and help him build a strong positive desire to potty outside.

Does that all make sense? :) Let me know if you have any questions, and enjoy your poodle! I have one myself and he is the most wonderful dog.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
BFJ
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by BFJ »

Hi Erica,

Thank you so much for your reply it is very helpful. We will try to keep him on a schedule. I have had a puppy before but it was a long time ago, so i am unsure of a few things. Basically are we looking to limit the amount of opportunity he has to pee/poo indoors by taking him out, rather than teaching him that outdoors is where he needs to go?
Also the pen we have him in during the day is 4ft x 4ft, do you think that is too big/small? Obviously his crate is smaller and basically all bed, but he is growing so quickly i was reluctant to limit him to crate size throughout the day? Is that a mistake?

Thank you again!
Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by Shalista »

I'm unsure of whats changed with your situation between this thread and the one you posted previously besides the 1 week age difference. am i missing something? 1 week is awfully soon to be seeing a huge change in behavior.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
Lotsaquestions
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Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by Lotsaquestions »

BFJ wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:02 pm Basically are we looking to limit the amount of opportunity he has to pee/poo indoors by taking him out, rather than teaching him that outdoors is where he needs to go?
Both! If he goes to the toilet outside he gets praise and treats, basically throw him a bonanza of a happy well done party. When he's inside, watch for any hint he might be thinking about going to the toilet, and that does mean watching him in his playpen if he's going in there. If you can't supervise then a crate is the only way to prevent more accidents. A crate with a frozen kong for a little bit won't do him any harm if you need to nip out or do a spot of work, as long as he isn't shut in there for ages when he's not actively sleeping. If he does toilet in the house just let him finish, by that point its too late. You need to catch them during the warm up period, when they are sniffing the floor or circling, then happily say 'do you need the toilet?' or whatever you want to say and take them outside.

For my pup basically the only time I was able to get any work done to begin with was when he was sleeping, but thankfully they sleep alot. When he was up and about I was watching him.
BFJ
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by BFJ »

Thanks all, this is all really helpful. My apologies for the confusion in my post last week i mentioned that he wasn't peeing in the pen and i didn't think that he was. Either he has just peed a lot more this week or because we had blanket's down before i didn't notice it as much. Also i mentioned last week that we were taking him out every hour, which we were but Erica's comment made me realize that we had probably slipped with that due to routines changing with the Christmas break.
Thanks for the advice re: crateing him when we can't actively watch him. We might end up putting the crate from car into the living room in his pen in order to do this. Then he can go in his crate when we can't watch him and in the pen when we are around and out around the house for training. Unfortnately we can't fit his main sleeping crate which is in our bedroom, through the door without dismantling it.
Thank you again for all the advice.
Erica
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by Erica »

By taking him out to toilet as often as possible, and preventing chances to go inside, he will develop a habit and preference for going outside. :) It is all that a vast majority of dogs need in terms of guidance for house training. The dogs that need more help are usually dogs that have had a past that sets them up to prefer pottying inside, and your pup is a bit young for that! He is also young, and I wouldn't expect reliability on his own for a few months yet. That's not to be saying that he will be having accidents for that long. If you watch his schedule and are proactive about it, he could start to get the picture much sooner. But the strong preference to go outside, which involves feeling the need to go and waiting, may not be developed for a while yet.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
BFJ
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by BFJ »

Hi all,

Just wanted to say thank you again for all your advice. We have now had no accidents in his pen for nearly two weeks and he loves having his crate in the living room too. He is also always asking to go out to go out to eliminate. The only thing we are still having issues with are when he is out of the pen, we will be watching him closely and sometimes we can spot the signs, especially of a poop, and get him outside. But sometimes he just seems to pee all of a sudden. Also he doesn't seem to understand that he needs to ask to go outside then too? Is there anything we can do to reinforce this idea?

Many thanks!
Erica
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by Erica »

He is still little! Sometimes he may just not realize he needs to pee until it's really urgent, especially in the more exciting outside-the-pen area. It's great news that he's doing well in the pen! I would avoid having him wander outside the pen unless he is empty. If you can increase the area gradually, that's even better. So instead of the 30 sq ft pen to a 150 sq foot room, try going from the pen to a 50 or 75 sq ft room. You don't need to do math, just try to keep him to smaller areas at first and expand a little more as he gets better at housetraining.

Additionally, he may not know how to ask to go outside if he's not in his pen. It's easy in the pen - I'm guessing he sits or stands by the gate and whines a little? But out in the open, the door might be out of view. Keep building that habit, and as he ages, he'll start to remember the door outside exists even if he can't immediately see it, and he'll develop some way of communicating with you. You can train a behavior to ask to go outside, and if you're interested I can explain how, but often dogs will develop their own as they grow up anyways, so lazy old me prefers to just see what they choose. ;)
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
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Nettle
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Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by Nettle »

Erica is spot-on - just to emphasise YOUR routine:

Out of the pen-out of the door- eliminate - reward - allow to sniff around for the second pee or poo - reward if so - go indoors - move freely outside pen - after half an hour, outside again - rinse and repeat. When you want him back in his pen, take him out first, make sure he is empty, give him something nice to do in his pen when he goes back in. If you skimp on any of these, he will learn the wrong things.

It is YOUR job to anticipate and take him out, not to expect a baby to link all the sequences together and tell you what he needs :wink:
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
BFJ
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Re: Seeking Advice - 15 week standard poodle puppy toilet training

Post by BFJ »

Thanks Erica and Nettle, he is very good and barks and looks at the door when he needs to go out for a pee or poop when he is in the pen. We have an open plan room with a chimney in the middle so I will need to have a think about the best way to divide the room a bit and gradually expand it as you suggest.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it!
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