Resource guarding or what?

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popsicle
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:46 am

Resource guarding or what?

Post by popsicle »

Have just posted in Introductions about Ben, my border collie rescue. Ben has been with me for 10 months. He was picked up as a stray with some broken chain round his neck and is believed to have previously been a farm dog. He is around 8 years old, neutered (by the Rescue) and is almost blind. He can see shapes however and tends to be a bit spooked by something like a pushchair rumbling towards him - or a car parked by the roadside where there aren't usually cars!
Ben is very affectionate and always wants to please so it was a shock when I was settling him in one night with his usual bedtime treats and he took a chunk out my hand after I touched him! It was a serious bite to the palm needing stitches. There was no growling though perhaps I just didn't read other cues. I don't think there is any pain or discomfort. I can see now that he is unhappy about physical contact when on his bed so I avoid that situation. He is a lovely 'huggy' dog otherwise but it needs addressing.
His vision may be an issue of course and he may have had to be defensive and territorial in his past.
Is this a form of resource guarding? I know how to approach resource guarding when it concerns treats but have no idea what to do about beds! I saw some advice to 'claim the bed' so I went and sat in it one day :lol: . First he ignored me, then he tried to squeeze in alongside, then he left me to it. In retrospect I think maybe the point about claiming the bed was to wait till he is in it, then ask him to move so I can sit in it - not just to plonk myself in it in the middle of the day! Dohh... :roll:
He is probably posting on a dog forum right now saying 'my human has lost it'.
Any ideas?
JudyN
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by JudyN »

popsicle wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:04 pmHe is probably posting on a dog forum right now saying 'my human has lost it'.
Oh, I love your approach :lol: And that you clearly care for him so much and don't blame him at all for the bite :D

Can you describe your bedtime routine exactly, please? Does he go and settle on his bed and then you hand him his treats? Do you pet him as you do this or simply give them to him and go away? Also, is his bed the same one he relaxes on during the day, and how close is it to where you'd normally sit or sleep?

For petting in general, particularly given his eyesight, it would be a good idea to make sure that he initiates petting rather than you - there's a video about consent to petting here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTSCvLcq1nA
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Lotsaquestions
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by Lotsaquestions »

I don't think there is any need to claim the bed, but instead you should use positive reinforcement so he sees your approach to his bed as a good thing. Because he can't see very well he needs his bed to be a safe, quiet spot to sleep in without worry. If this is a routine you've done many a time without worry, then it could just be something about that particular night caused him to spook. Maybe you were particularly quiet when you went in to touch him? How did he act after the bite? Did he continue to be upset by your presence near his bed, or did he seem a bit confused and snap back to his usual self?

The not growling could mean he was punished for growling in the past, in which case his ladder to a bite might skip that step, or it could just be he was genuinely spooked and it was a spur of the moment reaction to being scared.
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Nettle
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by Nettle »

Yes - very important - do NOT claim the bed. You had some bad (but commonly given) advice there. Like Lotsa has said, very likely he has been punished for growling in the past so went straight for the bite.

The day he DOES risk growling - see it as a gift. He trusts you enough to tell you when he is feeling stressed.

His bed is HIS. The time will cone when you can approach him wherever he is, but 10 months isn't long seen against 8 years, and remember he is almost blind and with an unknown past. Take it easy, take it slowly, and he will tell you more as time goes by.

Sounds a really painful bite. I hope you feel better soon.
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popsicle
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by popsicle »

Thank you all and thanks for the link. Will take a look at it
Ben sleeps in my bedroom but it took a while getting there. First even a bed seemed alien to him and he preferred to rest in cold hard spots. So it was nice when he finally 'adopted' his bed in the lounge. Then it seemed he had never encountered stairs before so we had lots of games - me with the squeaky ball and him chasing - a few stairs at a time. One day he managed them all and was so pleased with himself. These days he careers up at full speed without a second thought. After he mastered the stairs I got him used to his night time bed. He sleeps soundly with hardly a fidget and stays there till he hears me get up on a morning. I'm just a few yards away.
We started off with me giving him a couple of biscuits after he got on his bed and I continued that at night time. Whoever had him before had trained him to take treats off the ground and not out their hand - probably so that he doesn't mistake a finger for a biscuit. So if he is expecting something, his nose is at ground zero in readiness. On that night he had had his biscuits and a pat and I was talking to him - then I touched his leg and the reaction was instant. Not an all out attack just one good bite. It was most definitely a bite and not a mistaken snatch at a treat. I'll admit I was shocked and in pain and annoyed and I sent him downstairs. Later I asked him back up and we sat on the floor together next to his bed and I gave him a good talking to! It seemed he knew he had upset me but wasn't sure why.
This was midnight and I spent two hours in the local doctors surgery the next morning while they figured out what to do with my hand. I didn't want it recorded as a deliberate bite so I lied and said he thought my hand was a biscuit. But I don't think they were fooled :roll:
Looking back I had probably missed warning signs when he was on his bed downstairs - just something about the body language but I had put that down to being uncertain about his new surroundings.
These days he still gets a biscuit but I don't pat him. I get into bed and tell him what a good boy he is from there. :D

Very rarely I have him up on the sofa with me (I know I know). He actually has to be persuaded to jump up. Then he gets all giddy with the excitement and daring of it and jumps off to find a toy to play with. If he does settle then there are no issues with body contact and stroking - maybe because he knows he is in my space?
Yes it did feel wrong sitting in his bed. I want him to have his own safe spot. With his vision issues I'm actually very conscious of his personal space. I once had to stop a family of strangers from running up to make a fuss of him. 'No it's OK' said the Dad. 'No it's not' said I. What sort of parent lets their kids run up to pet a strange dog?
JudyN
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by JudyN »

popsicle wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:14 pm'No it's OK' said the Dad. 'No it's not' said I. What sort of parent lets their kids run up to pet a strange dog?
Idiot ones, but there's a lot of them about :?

I agree with what the others have said. He needs to feel secure on his bed, and that means respecting his space. I give my dog a dried chicken strip when he goes on his bed but I don't pet him there as he can be a bit of a snarky pants.

Telling Ben off doesn't actually help matters, as it will just increase his anxiety.... though obviously in the heat of the moment it's almost impossible not to! There's no reason at all why he can't come on the sofa with you as long as he's relaxed. But do be aware that he may doze off, forget where he is, and then react if you move or touch him because his instincts tell him you could be an aggressor sneaking up on him.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
popsicle
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by popsicle »

Thanks Judy. Have posted some pics of him.
My last border collie was so laid back you could even rearrange her on her bed with no negative reaction.
I was probably lulled into a false sense of security!
Lotsaquestions
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by Lotsaquestions »

popsicle wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:14 pm What sort of parent lets their kids run up to pet a strange dog?
Waaay too many. Although my dog is stranger friendly, he is known to jump up at children to try and lick whatever is on their faces or in their hands since they are walking food machines. I've found that 'oh he's poorly' works waaay better than 'no he doesn't want to be stroked'. My mum, who has two elderly Yorkies, one of which hates children and is afraid of them, has taken to just saying very firmly, and very loudly 'No!' and marching off :lol:

With a resource guarder its good to toss them treats as you approach what they are guarding, but always at a distance they are comfortable with. Then slowly lower the distance when the dog looks up at you with a happy expression / waggy tail when you approach. Doing it at the dogs pace is key, they should always be relaxed about it. Although its good to let Ben rest in his bed, you still want to avoid stress on his part when you get up and move around him during the night since he's in your room. My own dog is a guarder of high value food, he went from growling at me even being in the room, to letting me pick it up and move it around, and be able to stroke him using this method. I don't do the latter things unless I have to (he puts his raw chewies on the sofa, eww!) because I just want him to relax. But with positive reinforcement he's perfectly happy for me to do so. A great book to read is Jean Donaldson's 'Mine!'.

Letting your dog on the sofa is fine! But its always good to teach a positive 'Off' command so you don't need to man handle them off when you need them too, especially with a dog who might get grumpy about it. And as Judy said be careful when he's dozed off until you know he's fine with it. Simply toss a treat on the floor and say 'off!' then call them back on the sofa, praise them, then toss the treat off again. With Ben being hard of seeing you might need to lure him off the first few times with the treat in your hand.

Lastly Ben is very lucky to have you, and he seems to know that!
jacksdad
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by jacksdad »

it is possible this is in part some "resource guarding", but with aggression I always start with health. is there pain, illness, injury...deteriorating eye sight...

do not under estimate the effect of dogs loosing their eye sight being a factor in aggression. combined with him being new to you, there is bound to be some friction from time to time.
Shalista
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by Shalista »

Lotsaquestions wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:22 pm
I don't do the latter things unless I have to (he puts his raw chewies on the sofa, eww!
Bax guards his high value food pretty aggressively and has nipped me in the past for getting to close. I've been lazy and haven't really worked on it cause its not an issue. (I throw him his food and then close the door. if i HAVE to move it ill just distract with something else)

this all backfired gloriously one night when he WOULD NOT settle (so hes even MORE anxious then usual) and i gave him a dinner just so i could try to get some sleep. no dice. he just carried it everywhere whining and trying to bury it.... including into my bed. and he would not be bribed off of it. so yes. i spent a night with a raw chicken thigh in my bed and YES i vigorously washed my blankets in the AM.

Moral of the story? dont be lazy i guess.

(also this story gets grosser the more i think on it)
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
popsicle
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by popsicle »

Shalista wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:28 am i spent a night with a raw chicken thigh in my bed and YES i vigorously washed my blankets in the AM.

Moral of the story? dont be lazy i guess.

(also this story gets grosser the more i think on it)
We have the mental picture... :shock:
In the very early days Ben once growled at me when I got a bit near his bone. I started him on a watered down version of 'no free lunch' and he has been fine since. Also in the early days he stole a large piece of raw salmon off a table and when he realised I wanted him to drop it, he swallowed it whole as quickly as he could. Cue call to vets - though it wasn't that salmon with the dangerous bugs in it. Not even a stomach upset. These days he can be trusted around food and he will drop anything he finds on request. Though I wouldn't go out and leave a roast beef dinner at nose level.... :wink:
Lotsaquestions
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Re: Resource guarding or what?

Post by Lotsaquestions »

@Shalista, I've read your posts, you're anything but lazy with Mr Bax. :lol: Sleeping with the chicken sounds like a dogs version of a Mafia threat.

@popsicle I don't think I would trust my partner with my roast beef dinner at nose level let alone a dog! :lol: Well, the dog would probably have more self control... :roll:
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