Blind dog now also deaf...please help

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chay
Posts: 352
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:58 pm

Blind dog now also deaf...please help

Post by chay »

Hello lovely people.

I am struggling to help my little dog Gypsy (10ish year old Pom / Chi rescue) - my last post here was when she went suddenly blind from SARDS (thread here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19396&hilit=blind+%2F+deaf#p138800)

Very quickly after this she also went completely deaf. She has now been blind AND deaf the better part of 3-ish years and is not showing any signs of improving or adjusting.

Aside from the deaf and blindness she continues to have random health issues - almost all her teeth have now been removed (despite us feeding her a raw diet up until we couldn't anymore), she has recurring ear infections (despite us cleaning her ears reguarly as instructed by vets and ensuring no water ever gets in her ears during baths etc) and repeated eye injuries (basically as a result of her constantly hitting her head on things). I feel like a failure and that she just keeps getting ill but I dont' know what / how else to do anything.

She has not adjusted to being deaf/blind no matter how much time passes - she will get 'stuck' in a corner just walking in a loop, or just stand in the middle of a room sort of staring as if she doesn't know where she is. Most of the time she will either stay on the couch with us (which is fine when we're home) or take herself off to bed (our bed - she has always slept with us, and we have had our mattress on the floor since the diagnosis so can still get up/down without falling off).

She is still very unsure on walks, we always walk with me on the right hand side of her and holding a bit of tension on her lead/harness so she knows I'm there, and we walk very slowly at her pace but sometimes she just freezes up. When this happens I just carry her around so she still gets some benefit out of the smells etc outside. She also often does not toilet outside anymore as I imagine she feels too vulnerable, meaning her toilet training inside has gone downhill extremely - we have bought a puppy training tray and use puppy pads, and reward her every time she goes there but when we're not home during the day that seems to go out the window and she just goes wherever.

Training wise things have also struggled, now that she can't hear the clicker OR see my hand signals she really finds it difficult I think to interact in brain training type exercises. I have tried games with food for her to use her nose but it just seems to overwhelm her and she will literally run in the opposite direction looking for the treat that was right in front of her.

Both my partner and I work full time, and while we are homebodies who spend alot of time at home with her anyway, I really do worry that she's just becoming more and more isolated and withdrawn with so little stimulation. We also have a little cat (Kali) who adores Gypsy, but Gypsy seems completely uninterested in interacting with her despite Kali's solicitations. I'm just not sure how else to help her.

We have had a full general health assessment and all her bloods / urine / heart / arthritis etc is fine. We have been in touch with a trainer and vetrinary behaviorist who both have said it is very difficult to help blind/deaf dogs due to the difficulties with communication - added to this her age means they say there also may be some dementia stuff starting to happen which is difficult to diagnose even in non blind/deaf dogs, and the medication for such is extremely limited. She has said that it just comes down to "a quality of life assessment" but I don't even know what that means.

I am desperate. She is such a gorgeous dog and despite all of this, all this stuff that keeps happening still is so trusting and sweet throuought every new thing. But she just seems so ...lost? ...old? ...isolated?? It breaks my heart and I don't know what to do.


So please - has anyone had experience or success with how to successfully re-integrate / re-orient deaf AND blind dogs? How do I assess "quality of life" for a dog that is so loved and cherished but also just by her conditions is probably struggling a lot every day?

ANY comments or advice will be welcome - thank you for reading (yet another) long post from me!
JudyN
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Re: Blind dog now also deaf...please help

Post by JudyN »

That's so sad, Chay :( A Yorkie I had growing up ended up deaf, blind and toothless (and diabetic & incontinent), but she seemed to adjust quite well and only bumped into things if they were left in unexpected places. But every dog is different and as you say, senility may be playing a part in Gypsy's behaviour too.

I haven't any answers, I'm afraid. I've looked at a few links, searching for 'deaf and blind dog' but I imagine you've already had a hunt on the internet. It may be that the best decision for her now would be to put her to sleep. If that's the case then you need to try to remove your sadness from the equation and see it purely from her point of view - though there's still no magic way of deciding when the time has come, you can only follow your gut feeling and make the decision as best you can.

I wonder if she'd enjoy a 'game' where you simply spread her food (or dry treats if she eats wet food) over a small area of floor for her to snuffle around and find? Or maybe snuffle mats? I'm thinking you need something which will occupy her brain for a little while without putting any stress on her. Hand feeding might also be a way of interacting with her through touch.

You can also get goggles for dogs to protect their eyes from injury - an internet search should bring up different choices.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Suzette
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:45 am

Re: Blind dog now also deaf...please help

Post by Suzette »

My heart goes out to you and your sweet pup! Quality of life can be difficult to gauge in another being. First, let me say this, if you Google Halo for Dogs you will find a product that helps blind dogs navigate safely and securely. This might be of great help to her.

But to address quality of life... my personal mantra for my animals is quality over quantity. We always hope for a life of both for our beloved pets, but many do not get that.

So... as unemotionally as I can possibly manage, I assess my pet. If I have done all I can for them in every way and they are still not happy, have no zest for life and I see no joy in their eyes (or heaven forbid, pain and/or distress), then it is most likely their time. We get to know our pets better than anyone and know how they are when they are joyful and how they are when they are not. It is the hardest decision any of us have to make with our pets, but when necessary, I see it as the last, loving, kind, compassionate, unselfish thing I will do for them.

I wish you all the best with your sweet dog. Hugs to you both!
My avatar is Piper, my sweet Pembroke Corgi. b. 5/11/11
jacksdad
Posts: 4887
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Blind dog now also deaf...please help

Post by jacksdad »

chay wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:24 am We have had a full general health assessment and all her bloods / urine / heart / arthritis etc is fine. We have been in touch with a trainer and vetrinary behaviorist who both have said it is very difficult to help blind/deaf dogs due to the difficulties with communication - added to this her age means they say there also may be some dementia stuff starting to happen which is difficult to diagnose even in non blind/deaf dogs, and the medication for such is extremely limited. She has said that it just comes down to "a quality of life assessment" but I don't even know what that means.
This is a gentle way of saying you need to consider that euthanasia might be right thing to do. I do not have enough information to even pretend to guide you across the internet so please do not take anything I say as advise one way or the other.

here are just a few things that would go into "quality of life assessment".

1. general health.

2. mental health, that would the possibility of the doggy version of dementia.

3. stress and/or distress. there is a difference so is your dog living in a state of never ending stress because she can't tell what is going on. is something about her current state or environment causing her to be in a sate of distress.

4. age

5. ability to function in life. can she play? play for a blind deaf dog is clearly going to be different. But she still has a nose. can she or will she eagerly participate activities that are possible given blind, deaf, age, etc.

6. is her eating and when she goes to the bathroom all normal.

7. is she listless, life is just laying around

8. does she seem able to engage with you

there are probably other factors to consider, but these are just a few. Each one them by it's self being the only negative may not be of any concern. even a couple together may not be enough to justify euthanizing. for example, old + diminished mental state + lower energy, yet everything else is good. most people wouldn't even think of euthanizing.

it is when you start going down the list of what make life worth living and more and more of those "check boxes" are showing a "negative" that the possibility that euthanizing the dog becomes something you have to at least consider.

Given the way you shared what the vet said, this is how I would take the comment. hopefully this helps understand what they were getting at.
Erica
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Blind dog now also deaf...please help

Post by Erica »

If you're having trouble assessing her quality of life, this document is a vet's evaluation of quality of life, looking at several factors. I think the Halo might be a good way to help her out if she can adapt to that. If she still has high-frequency hearing, I've heard of several dogs who gained a lot of confidence with BlindSight, though if she has cognitive decline she may be unable to adapt to it.

I hope whatever decision is made brings your family peace.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
chay
Posts: 352
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:58 pm

Re: Blind dog now also deaf...please help

Post by chay »

Thank you all so much for your prompt and compassionate replies.

JudyN, yes we have tried some various scent-based games with her but she seems to get overwhelmed / confused immediately and will literally run int he opposite direct of where the food is. I've tried keeping her on a harness / lead and she will just run in a circle on the spot :( just straight up hand feeding her though is a great option I hadn't considered, and I hadn't know about little goggles - thank you much I will try both of these things!!

Suzette, this is the hardest part for me (and obviously for everyone!) - I've never had to face this decision before (my heart-dog, Gremlin, was heathy as an ox until 17.5 and her heart started to go, thus taking the hard decision when it was time out of my hands). It's the no zest for life thing exactly as you describe - like she is just so detatched even when with us, she's not "there" if that makes sense. She is also needing more teeth removed and putting her through surgery after surgery when she doesn't really understand what's happening or "recover" to an actually improved state I just...it feels unfair on her to keep putting her through, if that makes sense.

jacksdad, your reply is so comprehensive, thank you so much. I think part of my apprehension in thinking of considering euthanising is that she doesn't seem "old" enough - she's only 10! I know that is still a very good wicket but I just really thought we'd have more time - little dogs usually live longer! My last dog lived until almost 18! etc etc. But in looking at the rest of the factors as you've suggested - it's difficult to acknowledge but there are a lot of 'negatives I do need to consider rather than just what I wish was the case, vs. what actually is'.

Erica, that is a fantastic reference document - thank you so much. I'll look further into the halo and I had never heard of the blindsight concept before, thank you! We're going to find a high frequency device just to test if she has a reaction and may be another way to get through to her - the more I consider things though the more I think the factors are poitning to dementia on top of the hearing/sight issues as well.


Thank you all again, so much, I really do appreciate it. It seems we have some very honest, difficult thinking to do.
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