Lying close to me

[JudyN]

Recently, Jasper has taken to lying right in front of me when I'm working, and often right in front of OH when he's on the sofa. Being as big as he is, he covers a LOT of floor space.

It's a bit of a pain as he has a tendency to snark if we get up suddenly, but as long as we move slowly and, if he lifts his head, raise a finger and tell him to wait '(or 'dead' which means put his head back on the floor) he's absolutely fine - he usually then gets a treat.

It would be tricky to train him to lie somewhere else as his reaction wouold probably be to sprawl out in front of me and then ask, 'What was it you were trying to tell me?' and if I did get him to settle elsewhere, he'd just get up a few minutes later when I wasn't paying attention and flop down in front of me again. A 'comfy bed' isn't much of a temptation now it's getting warmer - he prefers the carpet.

My question is, should I be concerned about him wanting to sprawl right in front of us? I think he may like the security of knowing that if we move, he'll know about it. He seems perfectly relaxed - apart from the snarky thing, but that's almost like a reflex with him - so would he actually be any better if I did try to get him to settle elsewhere? It's not that he's clingy round the house - he doesn't seem compelled to follow me around, he just has a preference to be near me, all other things being equal.

[emmabeth]

I think what you are doing is fine.. i suspect he wouldn't sleep somewhere else, and you are right, sprawling in front of you means you can't move without him knowing. That probably then means he feels able to TOTALLy relax and sleep, knowing no ones going to sneak off, sneak out, sneak in, etc!

[JudyN]

Thanks EB I find it odd that he can be stressed enough to feel the need to snark at me (usually jumping up and raaaring), yet be controllable with little more than a raised eyebrow. But if ever a dog was going to be odd, Jasper is that dog

I think he's more likely to snark if I haven't left him - I don't think he tends to do it if I've been out and come back. Which points to a smidge of SA, even though he doesn't seem in the slightest bovvered when I leave him nowadays. I think once he knows it (whether 'it' is me leaving or just me standing up) is going to happen, he just puts his big boy pants on and deals with it.

[jacksdad]

have you tried counter conditioning your movement of standing up to see if that takes some of the snark out of it. start at the speed he doesn't snark, the build till you are moving normal speeds.

Given your stories of Jasper and his genetic make up, movement and changes in his environment involving movement are probably things he is simply SUPER HYPER aware of. And to a point will always be.

[JudyN]

movement and changes in his environment involving movement are probably things he is simply SUPER HYPER aware of. And to a point will always be.

Yes - I'm not necessarily looking to eradicate the behaviour (nice as it would be), just to manage it so we're all quite relaxed. I have occasionally got up slowly and given him a treat if he hasn't reacted even if he didn't give me a dirty look - maybe I should do that more often. It's a good job his weight is easily managed

Of course, if it is a reflex (which may have different strict definitions), it may be fixed to a degree. I'm thinking of a war veteren who years later still dives under the table at a children's party if someone bursts a balloon. So I need to give him enough time to allow his 'thinking brain' to take over so he can control his automatic response.

[jacksdad]

I suspect it would be a long term project.

Classical Conditioning works on the more primitive parts of the brain responsible for how we react without thinking to changes in our environment. Even if you don't end it, you might be able to take some of the intensity out of it. just a thought.

[Nettle]

And had he been a worker, that hairtrigger reactivity would have put a lot of game in the bag. Not so useful in your circumstances though.

[JudyN]

I assume I should give him the treat as close as I can to actually standing up, or even just making my first move? There's a bit of a problem there in that I'd have to throw it and my aim's not that great - and when he's lying in front of me he often can't be bothered moving to the extent that if he can't get it just by sticking his tongue out, he'll just stare at it, as if waiting either for me to give it to him directly or for it to walk into his mouth

[jacksdad]

Nettle's comment has me thinking that going the "my movements predict food" approach may not actually be the right path....IF the behavior isn't fear and your movements are triggering him even briefly and just a little bit into hunting mode, which can be "self reinforcing", and if you approach this as fear based when it may not be...might not work out the way you hope.

It is possible this may need to be addressed more as a down stay type exercise. not literally, but a long those lines.

If fear isn't the underlying reason he jumps up, then going with a variation of the relaxation protocol might be a better approach.

in the official version Dr. Overall has us put the dog into a down or sit and we take a step away, step back. step to the right etc...then you clap, then do other things.

But in "your" version, maybe you invite Jasper lay next to you, then you make a movement to get up, click treat, make a bit more, click treat. also watch for signs of physically being relaxed, click treat. take a more operant (his behavior makes food happen) vs a classical conditioning approach (your behavior makes food happen to make your behavior less scary). in this case his behavior is a combination of holding a down while you stand up and take a step or two away and/or showing signs of physically being relaxed makes reinforcement happen. I wouldn't teach this on a cue, but make it default.

Pavlov is always on our shoulders so switching to a more operant approach will still have some classical conditioning riding along, so if there is any level of nervousness or comfortableness with movement while he is trying to relax, you will still get the benefit counter conditioning.

just thinking out loud.

[Dogglehand]

Yeah I would be careful with your movement meaning food for him, but other than that I think what you're doing is fine.