Lashing out without warning

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Bread
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:08 pm

Lashing out without warning

Post by Bread »

Hello all!

I have a corgi with a very short fuse. I see other dogs growling before lashing out as a warning, and if it doesn't work, they nip a little. However, my girl goes from a warning growl to an attack in a very, very short amount of time, often so short that other dogs have no time to react at all, resulting in a scuffle.

We live in a multi-dog household with five adult dogs and two puppies. The adults have adapted an approach of avoiding her all together, even if she's usually very calm and well-behaved, but because of her unpredictability. However, the pups don't know better yet.

I have come in terms with the fact that my dog will never be an overly social puppy who loves everyone and wants to play with them, but eventually I would like to add a puppy to my own pack (I have two of the five adult dogs in the household, both corgies and getting along great, because they've been together since they were 1), and for that instance I would like her to learn to warn other dogs properly before lashing out, giving them at least a chance to back off. Is there any way I could reinforce this idea on her?

Thank you for all your advices.
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Nettle
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Re: Lashing out without warning

Post by Nettle »

This is all about putting your dogs' needs before yours, and you sound a very caring dog owner so I know this isn't new to you.

So - no matter how much you want another dog, it isn't a reasonable ambition right now because your household dynamics and dogs are already under a lot of stress, especially your corgi. Is this a new behaviour or a recent one? What do you think is upsetting her to this degree?

A full health check is vital when a dog starts driving other dogs away. Ensure your dog has bloods taken to check thyroid levels and other organ function, has eyes, ears, teeth and skeleton checked out, and everything else your vet can think of - not just a quick shakedown and "okay" but a complete nose to tail check.

How old is this dog?

She WILL be warning the others but it is clear they are not respecting her warnings. We humans have to be taught how dogs warn, because a lot goes on before the growl and snap. Has she ever been punished for growling?

We need to know a lot more about your dogs' typical day, especially relating to food and exercise. We also need to know more about the other dogs - ages, genders, whether neutered or not, background (had from pups or taken in as adults) any ongoing health issues, other people in the home and their health issues if any. Then we can help more.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Bread
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Lashing out without warning

Post by Bread »

Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am So - no matter how much you want another dog, it isn't a reasonable ambition right now because your household dynamics and dogs are already under a lot of stress, especially your corgi.
Yes, I wouldn't bring a puppy of my own into this household with how things are now. I won't be stressing her out with another addition to the family, especially a puppy who might grow into being unstable due to the screwed up dynamics.
Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am Is this a new behaviour or a recent one?
It's been slowly growing since her first heat. Before that I could take her to a dog park and have her play with other dogs successfully, but afterwards she grew sort of more dominant and aggressive. Some big dogs would still allow her to jump on them and bark and nip at their heels, but smaller dogs would snap and my dog has never known when to back down, so things always ended in a fight. That's when I stopped bringing her to the park and instead, got her a friend from another corgi.
Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am What do you think is upsetting her to this degree?
I think the biggest factor is the sheer amount of dogs in this household. I used to live on my own with just the two corgies, and they got along together perfectly. Then I moved to UK, with my husband, into his parents' household. They had 2 male dogs to start with, neither of them neutered. Then they added one female dog into the group and soon one of the males got the newcomer pregnant and now we have puppies.

The thing is, this isn't my dog's only problem: she guards food very, very aggressively. Any instance with food involved, even if it's not dog food, has her on her toes and if there's a chance someone else might get something she doesn't, she'll fight for it. Only good thing is this doesn't apply to humans. She'd let me or my husband or anyone for that matter to pull food straight out of her mouth, but good god if another dog comes near a food source, it's absolute chaos. And this didn't start until I moved to UK into the multi-dog household. Back when I was living alone I could feed my dogs next to each other and they'd chomp their food in peace and move on. Now I have to crate her when they eat, because otherwise she'll chase the other corgi from his dish and if he doesn't budge, there'll be another fight.
Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am How old is this dog?
She'll be turning 6 in June.
Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am Has she ever been punished for growling?
This might've happened. I have since stopped correcting her from growling after learning this might in fact discourage her to give a warning before lashing out all together. However, I fear the accident has already happened and it's entirely my own fault for not knowing any better. Now I try to educate others about not correcting growling.
Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am We need to know a lot more about your dogs' typical day, especially relating to food and exercise.
They go out once a day for a long playtime in a park, where they can run off leash. In addition they have a free access to a big garden, albeit shared with the 5 other dogs.
They eat once a day, raw food, and she has to be crated for the duration of it. She doesn't mind. She voluntarily goes there and even sleeps there with the door open.
Nettle wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:14 am We also need to know more about the other dogs - ages, genders, whether neutered or not, background (had from pups or taken in as adults) any ongoing health issues, other people in the home and their health issues if any.
My other dog is a male, neutered since 2 years old, taken in as an adult home finder when he was 1,5. They have a couple of months age difference.

Other dogs in the household are 2 males, 5 and 6 years old, neutered since December; 1 female, aged 1 and a half, intact; and two five-month-old puppies. All of them have been with with my in-laws since they were at least 8 weeks old, the puppies since they were born.

One of the adult males is prone to yeast infections. Other than that everything is fine with both the dogs and people.

Hopefully this is enough information, and if you can think anything I could try with her, I'd appreciate it a lot.
emmabeth
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Re: Lashing out without warning

Post by emmabeth »

It does sound as if your dog has good reason to be a bit on edge and anxious about losing control of valuable resources in the household.

The thing that leaps out at me, she's food aggressive and she's only fed once a day... It takes dogs around 8 hours to digest their food so 8 hours after feeding, she's starving but she doesn't get anything else for another 24... that WOULD increase food aggression dramatically.

The general rule with any sort of resource guarding is, the scarcer the resource, the higher the value - so if she only gets fed once a day then that meal is SUPER valuable.

I would feed her twice a day, she already has to be fed separately from the other dogs anyway so that shouldn't be such an issue (I would actually feed all the dogs or at least, all your dogs, twice a day, so you are lowering the value of that resource for them all).

THe other thing that leaps out is there appears to be a lot of whizzing about and high energy activity but you don't mention any calming activity, training or one to one sessions with your dogs - so I would introduce that, take your two out for walks seperately and together and do lots of mooching, slow, sniffy type walks, scatter tiny food pieces for them to find (do this one dog at a time not both together!).

This should help to bring stress hormones down and give them time to chill out which should help them deal better with interacting with the larger group.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
carrie_02
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Re: Lashing out without warning

Post by carrie_02 »

emmabeth wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:04 am
THe other thing that leaps out is there appears to be a lot of whizzing about and high energy activity but you don't mention any calming activity, training or one to one sessions with your dogs - so I would introduce that, take your two out for walks seperately and together and do lots of mooching, slow, sniffy type walks, scatter tiny food pieces for them to find (do this one dog at a time not both together!).
Hi Emma, I'm not the OP and don't want to hijack this thread. I just wanted to say that I've heard many people say that scattering food on the ground is food mental stimulation for dogs, but if it's not inside the house I'm always worried it might be germy or they might end up eating something else poisonous/dangerous that was also on the ground, since they've learned eating off the ground is okay. Is there any truth to that? Thanks!!
emmabeth
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Re: Lashing out without warning

Post by emmabeth »

Really.. no.

My dogs can pick out a tiny weeny tablet from a bowl of wet meat, they can certainly avoid something poisonous on the ground!

A dogs digestive tract is short and fast acting, they are well designed to cope with eating off the ground, eating things that would make US sick, eating raw meat, eating faeces even, so unless a dog is already poorly AND you know the ground in question to be very dirty (for example, regularly flooded with raw sewage from a leaking drain, or a place other dogs routinely eliminate and it is not picked up ever) I really wouldn't worry.

I haven't noticed any increase in tendancy for dogs to scavenge, dogs do scavenge, its their basic biological nature - a good well trained 'leave it' works wonders!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
carrie_02
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:03 pm

Re: Lashing out without warning

Post by carrie_02 »

emmabeth wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:23 am Really.. no.

My dogs can pick out a tiny weeny tablet from a bowl of wet meat, they can certainly avoid something poisonous on the ground!

A dogs digestive tract is short and fast acting, they are well designed to cope with eating off the ground, eating things that would make US sick, eating raw meat, eating faeces even, so unless a dog is already poorly AND you know the ground in question to be very dirty (for example, regularly flooded with raw sewage from a leaking drain, or a place other dogs routinely eliminate and it is not picked up ever) I really wouldn't worry.

I haven't noticed any increase in tendancy for dogs to scavenge, dogs do scavenge, its their basic biological nature - a good well trained 'leave it' works wonders!
Oh wow, thanks for the quick reply, Emma!! That's helpful!
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