Need help with potty training!

[traderjane]

Hello,

We adopted a year old cockapoo. He was "supposedly" pad trained, but really is not trained at all. We have started crate training but Its been so difficult. He won't pee or poo if one of us is actively engaging with him or even just looking at him, however, when we turn away for a moment, he will pee in the house. I can't keep my attention on him constantly for very long at a time and so I am stuck leaving him in the crate for most of the day with small breaks. I feel terrible out this! What do I do? Can I leave him stuck in that crate for most of the day with frequent breaks? Is it cruel?

Thanks!

Jane

[JudyN]

There's a thread on toilet training here which should help: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6125

The important thing is to give him lots of opportunities to get it right - so take him outside very often (even every half-hour) and if he performs, praise him and treat him like he's the cleverest dog in the world. (Wait till he's finished - don't distract him mid pee/poo.)

If he won't poo & pee in his crate that's good - it's fine for you to put him in there when you really can't keep an eye on him as long as he's getting all the exercise & stimulation he needs when out of the crate. You could also try attaching him to you via a lightweight nylon lead to your belt, so you're more likely to notice any signs that he needs to go outside and respond to them in time.

Hope that helps!

[traderjane]

Thanks for the reply Judy! I'm really very frustrated. I love this dog but I don't know what to do. He never minded his crate before, but now that I am leaving him longer, he cries constantly to be let out. Also, if I tether him to me so that I can monitor him, he cries and pulls at the leash. I'm afraid that he will start to hate me.

But I can't have him peeing around my house.

-Jane

[JudyN]

Could you give a full run-down of his day, please? Include as much as possible about walks (how often, how long, on or off lead, etc.), times in the garden, training, games, times in crate, and so on. What sort of games does he enjoy? Does he understand a 'settle' command on a bed outside of his crate?

I'm not an expert, but the more complete a picture you can give, the more chance one of the experts will be able to come up with a solution that works for you.

[traderjane]

Hi Judy,

We have not been great about having him on a schedule because we didn't realize the extent of the problem. But this is I am doing now. It is impossible to do it exactly like this every day, but I am trying. Also, I will eventually need him to be able to stay longer times with out me but I can manage this for now.

7am - wake up and potty and a little brief playtime with me. Then back into the crate so I can get my daughters out to school.
8am - out of the crate for potty, playtime and a 30 minute walk and breakfast
9:30 - back in the crate so I can work (most of the time I work from home, but can't pay attention to him at all while working)
11:30 - out of the crate for pee and playtime/training
12:30 - back in crate so I can work
2:00 - pee break/playtime then tethered to me so I can do chores and other things. He may need to be crated again at some point during this time.
5:30 - 30 minute walk
6:00pm Dinner -
6:30 back in crate so I can make dinner for family.
8:00 potty and brief playtime Then back in crate
11: final potty and sleep for the night. He has no problem sleeping through the night in the crate and doesn't cry much at that time. The crate is in my bedroom.

He will happily sleep on a mat in the kitchen if I am with him but I am afraid to let him do that while I work or cook because he can get up and pee in the blink of an eye. I have not taught him the settle command, but he learns so quickly that it wouldn't be a problem to do it.

He will happily pee outside OR on pads so we are getting rid of the pads. He has had several mistakes in my house and although I have tried to clean them up with enzymatic cleaner, I'm afraid that he has learned some bad habits. We also took up all the rugs in our house because he definitely saw them as places to pee and poop.

He is always on leash when we walk, as he has a really strong drive to chase things and wants to greet every person he meets. He would be completely unreliable off leash. In the warm months, he can play with us in the backyard on a very long leash (we don't have a fence). But now there is lots of snow on the ground and its freezing so that is not an option. He enjoys learning tricks and chasing balls so we play a LOT of fetch around the house. He also really likes roughhousing with my five year old.

He is really smart and quickly learns any trick we want to teach him. He is gentle and tolerant of my 5 year old's antics. He is honestly perfect in every way except for the potty.

Thanks for all the help.

Jane

[jacksdad]

house training can be a frustrating process if things are not going smooth.

Some bullet points for you to keep in mind....

1. we MUST proactively take our dogs out before they have an accident in the house. if you dog can hold it 1 hour, we go out at about 45 min. if your dog can hold it 2 hours, go out 1hour 45 min etc. this is a CRITICAL step. don't expect your dog to "tell" you when they need to go. you NEED to be taking them out regularly BEFORE they have an accident.

2. no matter how well house trained, dogs have a biological limit they can "hold it". successful house training is a two way street. we ask the dogs to not go in the house and to hold it...in exchange we don't ask them to hold it longer than is reasonable.

3. being able to hold it overnight and being able to hold it during the day are two different skills thanks to biology. body slows down at night while asleep. don't let being able to make it all night fool you into thinking "dog makes it over night, should be able to hold it X amount during the day".

4. if your dog gets distracted and "forgets" what they should be doing...go back in. wait a couple minutes, go right back out.

5. when cleaning up accidents in the house...REALLY soak the area with the cleaner. don't just "spritz" it.

6. close off areas you don't want your dog to go into when you aren't looking

also, keep a log of in the house accidents. it is easy to loose sight of progress if a backward step happens. or to miss progress if progress is slow.

[traderjane]

Thanks Jacksdad,

I have increased the frequency that we are taking him out. If I am watching him constantly, or he is crated, he has no accidents. I can manage him by taking him out frequently but I'm confused about how I transition to eventually allowing him to have some freedom. I can't keep my eyes on him constantly for very long and I don't want him to spend his whole life in a crate.

How do I go from managing this (crating and frequent trips out) to teaching him to hold it when I'm not watching? I guess I'm asking how I teach him what NOT to do.

Thanks!

-Jane

[Erica]

Over time, the dog will get used to pottying outside and see it as the place to potty. Think of most people today -- in a modern city, someone will get used to peeing in a porcelain toilet. Give them the option of peeing in the woods and they might decide to just wait until they get somewhere more like what they're used to! It's building up a habit. "I only potty when I am standing on grass/dirt/leaves."

So as your dog gets reliable at pottying outside, you can, room by room, expand how much freedom he has. You may start with an ex-pen (like a baby's play pen, made for dogs), then a small room, then a larger room.

Your dog is likely "empty" after a walk, so that would be the time you can start giving him more freedom.

[traderjane]

THanks Erica,

I'm sorry if these questions seem too basic, but I feel like we did this wrong when we got him and I don't want to make any more mistakes. Are you saying that after we go for a while with this extreme monitoring, I then give him some time alone in a room without me watching and see if he makes a mistake? If he makes none, do I then start increasing the time?

If I leave the room and I find a mistake, do I go all the way back to square one?

Also, at what point should I start to give this freedom? After about a week with no mistakes with me watching constantly?

Thanks!

-Jane

[JudyN]

You should find that he begins to 'ask' to go outside - and of course when he does you want to reward him hugely. 'Asking' might be just looking at the door, or looking at you, or going to the door, or whining... Watch him very closely so you can pick up on the slightest sign, and then encourage him. (My pup got to the stage of standing by the door silently, even if I was in a different room, but I managed to teach him to bark to be let out.)

It's a LOT of hard work now, but the more time & effort you can put in now, the sooner and more reliably he'll be trained. I'm not sure it's possible to put a timescale on it, but I think I'd want to see some sign of him 'asking' to go out before expecting too much when he's unsupervised.

[traderjane]

Thanks Judy,

What happens if he asks to go out and I'm not home?

-Jane

[Shalista]

Also, keep your expectations modest. I have a 4 year old rat terrier that i've had for 3 years and he RARELY asks to go out. so i just take him out every 2 hours like clockwork while I'm home and if I cant be watching him he's locked in a room i know he wont go in.

[JudyN]

What happens if he asks to go out and I'm not home?

Then either he'll cross his legs and try to hang on till you get home (if he's got to the stage of realising that outside is the place to go), or you'll come home to a puddle!

It's not the end of the world - you can only do so much, you can use the crate if he's content in there and is reliably dry in there. But even with the odd accident, he should get there in the end.

[traderjane]

Thank you so much Judy and Shallista,

This is what I really needed to hear. I have been getting a lot of judgment from people around me about how I'm not being strict enough and how I should use more negative reinforcement. I have felt a little like a failure. My aunt tells stories about her dog who could hold it for two whole days if asked too. Its good to know that its not the end of the world if he never gets to the point where he can stay alone for hours without leaving me a little puddle. I honestly, can live with that no problem. I love this dog and if thats the way it is, I'm fine with it. I will do all you say, and taking him out more frequently is already a huge improvement. But if it turns out that when I'm gone longer, I have to just leave him in an easy to clean room. so be it.

I really can't thank you all enough.

-Jane.

[JudyN]

My aunt tells stories about her dog who could hold it for two whole days if asked too.

Can you imagine how stressful (as well as unhealthy) that would be for the dog? Presumably the dog was really worried about what would happen if she weed in the house. Personally if my dog was left too long I'd rather he did a puddle in the house without getting too stressed and could then relax than panic about needing to go!

Punishing a dog after the event would serve no purpose as the dog wouldn't associate the punishment with the accident, and punishing the dog when caught in the act won't teach it what it should have done - it might well just teach it not to wee/poo when you're looking and so it will go & hide behind the sofa instead. Also, some people will tell you that you must never let your dog have an 'accident' - well, I was a bit too laid back/lazy for that and there were the occasional accidents, but they didn't stop my (albeit still young, and quite clever) pup from getting there pretty soon. They're all different though, as Shalista has pointed out.