Reactive Collie

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Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

First time dog owner. Learning lots in the past 4 months. Previous owner reassured me Tuxedo (what I'll use as his "screen name") was a great apartment dog. I thought, "Well, individual personality matters more than breed." I was naive.

(Breaking in to chunks so safety feature don't block me.)
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

I live in an urban apartment.
Border collie mix, 5 years old.
Pedigree kibble
All food is fed through training.
Daily training, mostly in the moment. Tuxedo starts to huff and walk towards the (now blocked with film) window, I either click my tongue to mark the early signs or calmly call out "check it" followed by "watch" and treat=kibble. I notice Tuxedo laying unusually calm, he gets a piece of kibble.
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

50 minute walks one to three times a week. (Needs more physical exercise.)
Initial process of leaving apartment (and any short elimination runs) involve seeing other dogs about 60% of the time. I attempt vigilance and we hide behind cars, run other direction, etc.
Private lessons with trainer twice a month (What I could financially afford.)
Group lessons start this Friday. (Trainer thinks he's ready. Incidents with apartment neighbor dogs--off leash dogs rushed him--set him back. I am considering talking with trainer about an explicit treatment plan. I really am less interested in obedience than calmness.)
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

Almost always pacing back and forth between the window (less so when I placed an ugly wooden room divider over the window. Not as bad as before with clear window, but increased since I placed the window film) and me or door. Very talky. I want to teach "settle." Very overwhelmed (both Tuxedo and me!)
Ordering a Lickety Stik so I can increase rewards without gaining weight.
I work a 3--10 hours a day. At previous residential basement apartment, he had run of a bedroom and no windows within eye reach. New (3 weeks ago) urban 5-story apartment has more commotion, more dogs, and windows (although covered as described.) The film has cut down on his attention to 2 windows, but not to the balcony sliding glass doors (because that's where he's walked out and seen other dogs?) [Okay. I just stood and replaced the room divider in front of the balcony doors. We'll see if that helps. I will need to paint them so I don't feel resentful every time I look at them!]
New apartment is a 10 minute bike ride from work! So, I can break up those ten hour work days better, now.
Borrowed from library: Feisty Fido (inter library loan, will have to buy if need to reference again), Click To Calm (just got yesterday), emotion in you and your dog by McConnell, other end of leash and a McConnell DVD on request and are within my library system and should arrive this week.
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

In the few moments that Tuxedo is calm, it is very difficult to treat him without him becoming excited. I've found a calm low "Yes" works better than a click in those moments. And if I am carrying the kibble around in my hand because he notices and becomes excited when I reach for the bait bag that is almost always on when I am at home. I try gentle pets and massage as an alternative "settle" reward. Sometimes works, sometimes I notice lip flicks and I stop.
I find routine very difficult to establish for myself, personally, and establishing my own routines in a more predictable manner is part of my human-therapy treatment plan that I am working on with professionals on. I am certain that as my own routine settles, the will be benefits to Tuxedo as well.
I am sure there is more. While he is reactive on walks, that is less difficult to manage than the constant hypervigilance in the home. And then there is the catch-22 of set backs every time he sees a dog, while leaving in a setting with lots and lots of dogs. I have considered rehoming. However, I have seen a lot of progress over the past 4 months. I would never suggest this experience for a first time dog owner and regret my naivete. And, well, it is what it is. I look forward to the positive moments we do share.
I have two cats. The more high strung of the two is living with my partner while I work on the high strung dog. I really miss her. And, I know it's best for now. My partner is open to learning about training but has a more laid back personality and doesn't dig into things as much as I do. I have found Pam Johnson-Bennett's many books, John Bradshaw's Cat Sense and Bradshaw & Ellis's The Trainable Cat very helpful both over the past several years, and since adopting Tuxedo.
Lastly, my trainer read Tuxedo's frustration as being more of the "I want to be best and okay with all the everything all the time" variety rather than the "please stay away from me all the time" variety.
Thank you to everyone that maintains these forums. Reading over various threads has already been immensely helpful.
JudyN
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Re: Reactive Collie

Post by JudyN »

Caesg wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:02 pm50 minute walks one to three times a week. (Needs more physical exercise.)
I'm not an expert, and I'm running out of steam for today, but this is the bit that screamed out loud at me. He needs to be walked more than 50 minutes every day. He also needs much more structured training and mental activity (I'm guessing a bit here as I'm assuming you haven't listed all of the training/games you do) - I'm not sure this is even feasible if he's being left for 10 hours a day. Border collies will go loopy if not given the physical exercise and mental stimulation they need and you'll have little chance of fixing his issues if you can't fulfil these.

I'm sure others will come along with more suggestions to address his issues, but if you can work out a way of fitting in more walks, with opportunities to sniff & investigate & explore, and mental stimulation, this will go a long way to improving his reactivity.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
emmabeth
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Re: Reactive Collie

Post by emmabeth »

Hi Caesg (btw you shouldn't need to break your post up like that, if you are going to write a long one, write it in a word doc and copy and paste that way if hte forum eats it you still have it).

Whilst I agree with Judy that normally a collie needs more exercise than that, a stressy reactive collie is unlikely to benefit from lots of long periods outside being over stimulated.....

Stress hormones (cortisol and adrenaline) take around 48 hours to drop back down so if a 50 minute walk winds him up, and you do another one the next day, that stress is never coming down.

Better would be multiple very short trips outside to do some training, some watching the world go by and counter conditioning and reserve walks for physical exercise to quieter times/after dark even or when you can get out to somewhere else (if you drive).

THat plus an increase in stress reducing activities indoors, sniffing out food, using snuffle mats etc, scent games where he has to find a scented toy, should really help.

Also... Pedigree kibble? Is a really poor food - look at changing the diet to a grain free kibble (one thats not crammed with high sugar carbs though, some are!).
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

Thank you for the replies. I am on the train and only have a moment, so this will be very brief:

I spoke with a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist today. The closest to me are all away 8 hours away in various directions. She was very helpful and I will post more on that.

Today's walk he got pretty agitated twice. Recovered pretty well. The second time I was approaching a busy street so I circled back rather than rounding the block.

I like the idea of short sessions watching the world go by. I think we could even try that from the balcony.

He got a second skirt walk at lunch. Didn't leave the complex, lots of sniffing thigh.

Those that share my nutrition philosophy seem to prefer Royal Kanin and Purina One. I am working on figuring that piece out.

This is my stop. More later. Thank you again.
JudyN
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:20 pm
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Re: Reactive Collie

Post by JudyN »

I wouldn't recommend Royal Canin or Purina - have a look at this site for reviews of just about all commercial dogfood: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

In regards to "watching the world go by"--any suggestions on this? Tuxedo and I are spending more time in the "bunker" now. Bunker= the interior room of my apartment, where there are less sounds and shadows to react to. So, step 1 will involve training sessions in the main room. How will these sessions differ from what I already do? Already, I keep an eye and bait bag on at all times and click/reward early calming signals. What might a more structured training session in the main/more distracting room look like? Thank you!
emmabeth
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 pm
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Re: Reactive Collie

Post by emmabeth »

I would pick the quietest location you have where he can still hear or hear and see stuff going by.. for most people thats a back yard or garden, or maybe a balcony or a room wtih a view outdoors (but not the front room thats usually too much).

Sit and chill and any noise you hear, any thing he sees moving, mark it (click the trigger) and reward him for just seeing it - basic counter conditioning.

Do these sessions in really short bursts, and stop before he has had enough so hes left wanting more!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

Thank you, EmmaBeth! I will practice and report. ^_^
Caesg
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 am

Re: Reactive Collie

Post by Caesg »

Tonight's potty break Tuxedo became dysregulated when a man came out for a smoke. We ran further away, hid behind a car, and worked on calming down with treats between barks and some very challenging “watch” practice. I was able to hear the door close when the male neighbor went inside. Later a female neighbor came out. That wasn't as hard for him. Before going back in for the night, we practiced a longer “watch” and a micro-“stay.” i feel like we were able to send the outing on a good note.

In the house, now, he is having a moderately hard time. We're in the bunker room. He is staying in one place and maintaining direct physical contact with me. No barks, lots of panting, some whining/whimpering, and looks back at the door fairly often. While writing this we've been practicing “watch” and “touch” for treats. If we were in the main room, I am sure he would be pacing around. We’ll spend some time on trick training before going to bed. Today was a long crate (9 hours) and short outdoors (45 minutes:15 morn 30 night) day. We had about 5.5 hours together this morning while I cleaned house and prepared for the day. My next two dog training items have shipped and should arrive at my library in the next two days--a book and a video.

Now, Tuxedo has curled up at the end of the chaise--head tucked in, still maintaining contact with me. Breathing has slowed enough that I don't hear it. While cortisol levels are still high, it is good to see some slight signs of recovery.

Note: instead of being crated while I am at work, Tuxedo will have run of the bunker room, shortly. I am still working my way out of boxes post-move. So, the room is not reliably dog-proof, yet.
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