We just got a new female Boxer puppy, Lucy. SHe is 12 weeks old and I have been working with her for about a month now. I am seeing some progress with house breaking her, but I can not get her to calm down with my 11 year old Chihuahua. Lucy is just playing with him, but she is starting to get bigger than him and I am afraid that she may hurt him. Any attempt I make at telling her to stop is ignored and I have to pick her up and seperate them. She bats at him and he is just angry.
Any advice on correcting this behavior??
Thanks,
Lucy's MOM
New Puppy harrassing older dog
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Lucy's Mom
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:42 pm
- Location: Chesapeak, VA
In all honesty, given the age difference and the size difference, and that the Chihuahua is not getting any respect from the puppy I think you are going to have to manage this.
If you try to punish her out of this you are going to wind up making her life plain miserable, shes a puppy, she wants to play and shes a Boxer, so she wants to play bouncy paw slappy bitey rar-rar-rar games - whats more, shes going to want to play those games for a good 18 months or more.
These things are not her fault, any more than its the Chi's fault for being old and small and not enjoying these things.
These things are of your making - when you choose a new puppy you should take into consideration how your existing dogs will feel - right now I have a 13 year old Saluki x *****, *I* would like another Deerhound pup, but she most definately would NOT.... so we aint getting one. (I would also like a Saluki pup and given the size difference and temperament differences, she probably would like that, i will find out and that may be an option for us.... IF shes happy with it).
So - whats done is done, but you cannot train your Chi to stand up to her and tell her to get knotted, hes too small and hes too old.
Whilst you can (and ill get on to how to do this in a minute) stop her from having a go at him all the time, you CANNOT and more than likely will NEVER be able to have them play nicely together, especially unsupervised. Their ages, size difference and temperaments prevent this being a particularly achievable goal (if he was fiestier, and younger, if she was less of a bouncy girl and if she was smaller... maybe.)
So you will have to accept that there is going to have to be some degree of seperation and management between these two dogs, this is just being realistic because to be unrealistic about this, you will risk the health and well being of both dogs, primarily the Chi.
If you dont have babygates (double height if she can jump single ones) and at least one indoor crate/kennel... go get.
Using these they can be in one anothers company but without her being able to bash him, because even if its play he is enjoying, shes MORE than capable of injuring him, and boxers are not noted for being calm, thoughtful dogs.
Teach them both that being either behind the gate away from you, or in the crate (have this in a room you spend a lot of time in, like the living room, not hidden away out of sight of everyone), is a really REALLY fun place to be, treats happen there, toys happen there, its a place for quiet time... a sanctuary for bouncy puppies, a sleepy place for tired puppies...
Do not leave them together unattended, it will not be fair on him to do this if he cannot cope with her behaviour.
Have several sessions a day, and instead of thinking of correcting behaviour htat is already happening, you want to be looking to distract her BEFORE it happens. That will probably mean carrying really tasty treats around all the time, having easy access to a variety of interesting and fun toys (squeaky ones, rope ones etc), for the time being.
When she gets silly and looks like she might like to jump on his head, you distract her, say her name high pitched and nicely (not angry!) and then a recall command will do for this so Lucy Come! and wave the treat around or the toy, squeak the toy if its a squeaky one... whatever it takes to get her to come to you.... not have a go at him.
IF you mess up, and she gets to him instead of coming to you, theres two things to do.
Firstly immediately deal with the situation, I would probably say 'too bad' and take her for a time out, out of the room for just a couple of seconds. If going to get her to take her out of the room makes her think this is a game of chase, then you will have to take the Chi and yourselves out and leave her in there instead. Eitherway it doesnt matter the idea is IF she gets to him and is bullying him, then she gets NO fun at all. She will then learn that pounding the Chi == end of fun.
Second thing to do is, evaluate why she got to him in the first place. Did you ignore her, did you give the command too late after shed already decided to go to him, are the treats you have boring and not tasty, did your recall sound angry rather than inviting?
So - when you are not there, seperate them, when you are but cannot be watching like a hawk, seperate them.
When you are watching, distract and redirect her when she gets that look in her eye but BEFORE she goes to him to be bouncy on his head...
If you do it too late then time out, for just a few seconds.
Finally - because they will now be spending time seperated from each other and from you, you now need to add back in more time for them. Make their walks individual, spend time clicker training (read the sticky thread at the top of the forum), and playing games or problem solving stuff ('which pot is the treat underneath?... find the toy, etc) with them. If you make them spend too much time isolated to manage THIS issue... you will surely create another certainly with the puppy who has a serious need to be doing things most of the time.
If you try to punish her out of this you are going to wind up making her life plain miserable, shes a puppy, she wants to play and shes a Boxer, so she wants to play bouncy paw slappy bitey rar-rar-rar games - whats more, shes going to want to play those games for a good 18 months or more.
These things are not her fault, any more than its the Chi's fault for being old and small and not enjoying these things.
These things are of your making - when you choose a new puppy you should take into consideration how your existing dogs will feel - right now I have a 13 year old Saluki x *****, *I* would like another Deerhound pup, but she most definately would NOT.... so we aint getting one. (I would also like a Saluki pup and given the size difference and temperament differences, she probably would like that, i will find out and that may be an option for us.... IF shes happy with it).
So - whats done is done, but you cannot train your Chi to stand up to her and tell her to get knotted, hes too small and hes too old.
Whilst you can (and ill get on to how to do this in a minute) stop her from having a go at him all the time, you CANNOT and more than likely will NEVER be able to have them play nicely together, especially unsupervised. Their ages, size difference and temperaments prevent this being a particularly achievable goal (if he was fiestier, and younger, if she was less of a bouncy girl and if she was smaller... maybe.)
So you will have to accept that there is going to have to be some degree of seperation and management between these two dogs, this is just being realistic because to be unrealistic about this, you will risk the health and well being of both dogs, primarily the Chi.
If you dont have babygates (double height if she can jump single ones) and at least one indoor crate/kennel... go get.
Using these they can be in one anothers company but without her being able to bash him, because even if its play he is enjoying, shes MORE than capable of injuring him, and boxers are not noted for being calm, thoughtful dogs.
Teach them both that being either behind the gate away from you, or in the crate (have this in a room you spend a lot of time in, like the living room, not hidden away out of sight of everyone), is a really REALLY fun place to be, treats happen there, toys happen there, its a place for quiet time... a sanctuary for bouncy puppies, a sleepy place for tired puppies...
Do not leave them together unattended, it will not be fair on him to do this if he cannot cope with her behaviour.
Have several sessions a day, and instead of thinking of correcting behaviour htat is already happening, you want to be looking to distract her BEFORE it happens. That will probably mean carrying really tasty treats around all the time, having easy access to a variety of interesting and fun toys (squeaky ones, rope ones etc), for the time being.
When she gets silly and looks like she might like to jump on his head, you distract her, say her name high pitched and nicely (not angry!) and then a recall command will do for this so Lucy Come! and wave the treat around or the toy, squeak the toy if its a squeaky one... whatever it takes to get her to come to you.... not have a go at him.
IF you mess up, and she gets to him instead of coming to you, theres two things to do.
Firstly immediately deal with the situation, I would probably say 'too bad' and take her for a time out, out of the room for just a couple of seconds. If going to get her to take her out of the room makes her think this is a game of chase, then you will have to take the Chi and yourselves out and leave her in there instead. Eitherway it doesnt matter the idea is IF she gets to him and is bullying him, then she gets NO fun at all. She will then learn that pounding the Chi == end of fun.
Second thing to do is, evaluate why she got to him in the first place. Did you ignore her, did you give the command too late after shed already decided to go to him, are the treats you have boring and not tasty, did your recall sound angry rather than inviting?
So - when you are not there, seperate them, when you are but cannot be watching like a hawk, seperate them.
When you are watching, distract and redirect her when she gets that look in her eye but BEFORE she goes to him to be bouncy on his head...
If you do it too late then time out, for just a few seconds.
Finally - because they will now be spending time seperated from each other and from you, you now need to add back in more time for them. Make their walks individual, spend time clicker training (read the sticky thread at the top of the forum), and playing games or problem solving stuff ('which pot is the treat underneath?... find the toy, etc) with them. If you make them spend too much time isolated to manage THIS issue... you will surely create another certainly with the puppy who has a serious need to be doing things most of the time.
Re: New Puppy harrassing older dog
Boxers, puppy or not, are full of energy-- she's not really in need of correction, she's living up to her breed and being a dog. She doesn't really understand her size (I have Great Danes that insist they are tiny lap dogs) or that she could hurt a much smaller dog.Lucy's Mom wrote:.
Any advice on correcting this behavior??
One of the things you can do is to teach her to play laying down when she's playing with a smaller dog, if the smaller dog wants to play. You do that by taking her for a nice long energetic walk when she's at her most playful, then coming home and giving her constant feedback during playtime. Praise her for laying down, praise her for being gentle, remove the other dog (no punishing, no fussing, no seething, no talking to her) for being too rough-- wait 30 seconds, then start over. Repeat, over and over again.
You can continue on and give her lots of new venues to play with dogs her size, and giving her frequent mental and physical stimulation so she doesn't have the inclination to spend all of her energy trying to play with the smaller dog.
Puppies have what is known as a puppy license. Older dogs will allow them to do thing to them that they would not let other adult dogs do. As your pup matures your older dog will let him know when he is out of line.
If your older dog has any medical condition like arthritis, I would refrain from having them interact and play with each other.
I would also have him tethered to you around the house (you should be doing this for house trianing anyway). Your older dog should give very clear body language when he does not want to play....not returning a play bow, looking away and avoiding eye contact wih the puppy, or trying to walk away.
With your pup tethered or leashed to you, lead him off. The moment pressure releases (from his desire to stay, and the pressure of the leash from having him walk off with you) mark and reward with a yummy treat...not a biscuit or cracker, but real chicken, venison jerky etc...
Do not jerk or pop the leash and use only a harness, martingale or buckle collar on the pup....no choke or prong.
Interact and enage your pup in play with toys. This will serve to re-direct his energy and focus from the older dog.
Do not punish, or correct as you are teaching your dog to respect your older dog's body language.
If your older guy wants to play let them. They older guy will let you know when he wants the games to end...ending games is matter of fact and not an emotion deliver "stop".
If your older dog has any medical condition like arthritis, I would refrain from having them interact and play with each other.
I would also have him tethered to you around the house (you should be doing this for house trianing anyway). Your older dog should give very clear body language when he does not want to play....not returning a play bow, looking away and avoiding eye contact wih the puppy, or trying to walk away.
With your pup tethered or leashed to you, lead him off. The moment pressure releases (from his desire to stay, and the pressure of the leash from having him walk off with you) mark and reward with a yummy treat...not a biscuit or cracker, but real chicken, venison jerky etc...
Do not jerk or pop the leash and use only a harness, martingale or buckle collar on the pup....no choke or prong.
Interact and enage your pup in play with toys. This will serve to re-direct his energy and focus from the older dog.
Do not punish, or correct as you are teaching your dog to respect your older dog's body language.
If your older guy wants to play let them. They older guy will let you know when he wants the games to end...ending games is matter of fact and not an emotion deliver "stop".
I have two Shih Tzu's the older dog Shelby is 10 yrs olds and the new puppy Bella is 4 mths old.
I am having the same problem except Bella the puppy is jumping and biting [nipping] at Shelby constantly. When Shelby gets down for water or go out the doggy door Bella chases her so Shelby winds back up on the furniture. Shelby would stay up on the ottoman or sofa where Bella could not reach her but now she is 4 mths old she has learned to climb up on the furniture.
I have a trainer but she is really new and we have not been able to get Bella to stop her behavior. We have tried putting pennies in a can and shaking it the minute she looks like she will chase Shelby. That distracts her for a second and off she goes again. I am trying to teach her off and reward her with a treat.
What do you suggest? I have a crate and a doggy door but Bella whines when I put her in or behind them. I feel like it is punishing her but then at the same time I think poor Shelby needs some resprite too. She used to love to lay on the wood floors for their coolness but lately she just stays on the furniture and now that isn't even safe for her.
WHAT DO I DO NEXT?
I am having the same problem except Bella the puppy is jumping and biting [nipping] at Shelby constantly. When Shelby gets down for water or go out the doggy door Bella chases her so Shelby winds back up on the furniture. Shelby would stay up on the ottoman or sofa where Bella could not reach her but now she is 4 mths old she has learned to climb up on the furniture.
I have a trainer but she is really new and we have not been able to get Bella to stop her behavior. We have tried putting pennies in a can and shaking it the minute she looks like she will chase Shelby. That distracts her for a second and off she goes again. I am trying to teach her off and reward her with a treat.
What do you suggest? I have a crate and a doggy door but Bella whines when I put her in or behind them. I feel like it is punishing her but then at the same time I think poor Shelby needs some resprite too. She used to love to lay on the wood floors for their coolness but lately she just stays on the furniture and now that isn't even safe for her.
WHAT DO I DO NEXT?
Kim
When the older dog is looking for a rest, provide it. Its not a time to "correct" the puppy, but a matter of re-direction. That's the time that you need to play with your puppy, perhaps play a training game etc...
You may want to segregate a safe zone for your older dog with an xPen. Put a nice cushion in their and reward him heavily for going in there. When he goes to the pen, its a place that puppy cannot follow.
You may want to segregate a safe zone for your older dog with an xPen. Put a nice cushion in their and reward him heavily for going in there. When he goes to the pen, its a place that puppy cannot follow.
My solution is like ckranz... I have a room at the top of the stairs the pup is not allowed to go into. The older two can retreat there without the pup disturbing them. I do have to put up a gate to prevent him from going up when I am not watching, but I have also been consistent in not letting him go to that room. I also have crates in the main room they can retreat to escape from his exuberance. My sheltie isn't very meek and will give the boys (large dogs) a what-for without them retaliating, but she still needs a place to go to escape from the obnoxious pup. 
Don't know if that helps, but giving them a place to escape was my plan before I got the pup.
Don't know if that helps, but giving them a place to escape was my plan before I got the pup.
Well I have always found the older dog will put a puppy in it's rightfull place within the pack, thats how they learn to respect there elders, by removing the puppy all your doing is removing the puppy not the problem, I have many puppys here as I quarentine for travel from Europe to UK and all puppys are brought up in the home with my adult dog's and usually after they have pushed there luck with one of them and have been put in there place they know not to push it again( I'm not talking about an adult bitting or savaging the puppy) but just telling it off as there mother would when they get to much for her.
Bilclarie Dobermann's
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If it's not a Dobermann it's just a dog
www.bilclarie.com
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I thought Shelby the older dog would put the younger puppy in her place but she won't. I would say she is almost submissive to the younger dog due to not being around a lot of animals in the past.
After 2 months Shelby is finally barking and growing at the puppy but it just aggrevates the puppy into more frenzied jumping and biting.
After 2 months Shelby is finally barking and growing at the puppy but it just aggrevates the puppy into more frenzied jumping and biting.
Kim
All things being equal I would agree. The problem comes when older dogs may be suffering from arthritis pain or other medical issue which make it difficult for them to get the message across. What I meant by intervention was waiting until the older dog clearly expresses a desire to be left alone, then helping him to enforce it. This especially helps when there is a tremendous size difference between a smaller older dog and a much larger puppy.Bilclarie wrote:Well I have always found the older dog will put a puppy in it's rightfull place within the pack, thats how they learn to respect there elders, by removing the puppy all your doing is removing the puppy not the problem, I have many puppys here as I quarentine for travel from Europe to UK and all puppys are brought up in the home with my adult dog's and usually after they have pushed there luck with one of them and have been put in there place they know not to push it again( I'm not talking about an adult bitting or savaging the puppy) but just telling it off as there mother would when they get to much for her.
+1ckranz wrote:All things being equal I would agree. The problem comes when older dogs may be suffering from arthritis pain or other medical issue which make it difficult for them to get the message across. What I meant by intervention was waiting until the older dog clearly expresses a desire to be left alone, then helping him to enforce it. This especially helps when there is a tremendous size difference between a smaller older dog and a much larger puppy.
In my house the smaller dog is 1/3 the size of the other two. The older dog is a senior with a weak leg (not too weak, but makes things unequal). They still teach the pup, but also have an escape since they cannot properly discipline him as an equal.