8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

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Rippers
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8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Hi,
Quick intro, 8month old springer pup. Owned her 3 weeks after her first family realised they had bitten off more than they could chew. She was restricted to a small area by their back door, didn't get on with their other dog and was hyper and also nippy when overexcited, nervous peeing (usually around men) Impossible to walk as she pulled so badly .
I walked in to meet her and took her straight home. I wouldn't recommend it as a method of choosing a dog for your family but I couldn't leave her.

She is neutered (not sure of when though) I notice many of you recommend waiting for a few seasons first for them to mature, but doesn't waiting to neuter increase mammary cancer risk? Either way immaterial as that decision was taken out of my hands.(but this may explain some issues perhaps)

I will list the things we are having issues with and what we are doing to try and help her and us overcome these. I have looked up similar threads and saved lots of links so will add these so if they're wrong or you can recommend better please let me know.

I'm a relatively experienced dog owner, and spaniel owner but haven't had a dog in my house for 10 years due to having my children so firmly out of practise. And especially not a puppy who comes with issues.


1) she isn't house trained. She is in a crate, and won't wet in there. Outside of it she wees and poos with abandon. I don't want her in the crate at night a she she spends far too long in it, but with children in the house I can't have her mess all over when they're getting up etc.

I am using the following thread for advice and have started it this evening:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6125

2) pulling on the lead. This is much , much better. Except if she sees a bird or a shadow... I use a harness at the moment as I refuse to pull on her neck / throat and may move on to a halti type in time (not yet due to other issues that I will explain in a mo)
The main way her lead walking has improved has just been more walks. She gets 4 a day. Half an hour in the morning before work, a dog walker takes her out for an hour at lunchtime, 15-30 minutes when my husband gets in from work,and then a 30 minute walk with me anywhere between 7 and 9 depending on whether we have done any training in the house and how quickly our evening routine goes as a family ...

3) light / shadow reactivity. This is a breed trait, but she is addicted / obsessed by them, she will charge off at breakneck speed into walls to catch the shadows. Unfortunately her previous owners children had a laser pen and thought it was funny. Until it wasn't... she can't be in the front room with us as the reflections driver her up the wall, literally... she will jump on and over anything to get at them and has hurt herself already.

We are attempting to lessen this by rewarding calm behaviours and giving her chews to keep her occupied, this works in less exciting environments but the front room is too overwhelming, so for now we don't let her in.

I would be keen to hear any advice on helping her with this if possible

4) chewing, she destroys everything as she knows to use her back teeth to rip through anything ... I know this is in part an age thing and she has toys she can chew so she is a little better. The scariest of her things to try and chew is wires. I use a trade in method if I have something nearby, otherwise I have to choice but to remove them 'manually'. This is a Bad Idea and so now she is restricted to an area without any wires so further limited when not in her cage. Needs must for now.

5) defensive / fear biting.

If she is scared of something or gets over excited and then annoyed that you don't want to play the game anymore she will bite. Thankfully she doesn't have a huge amount of strength and a nice soft spaniel mouth so hasn't broken the skin but has bruised my hand and marked it. I have kids, this isn't acceptable. We look for cues and sometimes it's obvious (the ending of the game is one, we stand up to leave the game and she'll carry on the game with your feet. To try and get to safety if you have to push past her our perhaps push her back to get though a door she will go for you.
She has gone for me putting her harness on, but I realised quickly that I think at some stage she has probably had some pain around her spaying scar. I had to lift her into the car a couple of times and she went for me then when my hands were near that area. She's do t the same when stroking her, fine everywhere except there. I spent some time touching around it and treating over and over amd checking for actually pain (none at all thankfully) and she now realises it doesn't hurt but if I'm not slow enough she will remind me that I'm a fool!
When she is scared and I have no choice but to hold her it verges on dangerous. For example today, she has a crate for the car as she is too light reactive and will jump all over the car and wreck it. It's a leased vehicle I cannot have it damaged! The crate is one of those stretched fabric ones. She managed to rip it and escape whilst we were had to pull over and I sat nite boot with her (we have pop up seats. But they're for children,... I'm 6'2 ... I was trying to hold her to stop her jumping over and because I was holding on she's went for my hands. Even when I hid my right hand (she was on my left) she sought it out to bite. She sized up my face too but thought better of it. I had no choice but to hold tight and wait. Scary. She had her Kong with liver paste in it, but she was in such a state breaking out of the crate that she ignored it.
We will be buying a solid plastic crate but I don't want her to be in such a state in the car. We have some beautiful walks round here but you need to drive to many. She jumps in willingly now (we worked on that) but I need to find a solution to this.
So,times if she gets overexcited on a walk she plays tug of war with the lead. I ignore this but she will jump and try and get the lead out of my hand, the excitement is very close to aggression. I do not know the best course of action when this happens.

Edited to add - if I try to put anything over her head like a halti, she will go for me, it was the same with the harness at first but with treats and calmness from me she is over this.


There's probably more, but this is already the longest post known to man!

I have obviously highlighted the bad, but she is a lovely dog. Super smart, and have a few calm moments too (we groom and do some gentle massaging - this was started as part of desensitising her sides and belly to our touch) and she falls asleep on our laps. She adores the children, but hasn't got boundaries and goes too far so they are never alone together. They love her too.
She has so much potential.

If nothing else, I have to sort the biting. (Both the aggressive and the play) I cannot have a dog that bites around my children. As much as I love her they come first. But we are a long way from anything like that as I want to give her the best chance. It's up to me to give her the right training, I know that. And she's still very young and been with us for so little time.

She is fed a dry food that she came with, she has a sensitive belly so I'm getting the wet food right first. She is a tad underweight (she stresses it off) so Need something to pack calories in, without too much protein but also enough as she's still growing. I'm trying out 'Natures: Menu' wet puppy food, she gets 3 meals a day (1/3 of a pouch at each meal) and her dry food which is Arkwrights working dog ... this is going as soon as she settles onto this wet food (or an alternative, I am happy for advice on that matter too!) I will be moving her away from the dry onto something more suitable.


So. I'm sorry for that, I think I just chucked everything out of my brain onto this post.
Please excuse typos. I am on my iPad and it appears to hate me. I will go through and edit if I can!

I will not be offended, criticism, telling off and advice most welcome.

I have already learned loads from this forum and have loads of ideas but am going to be careful not to do too much at once.

Potty training is number 1 so that she doesn't spend so much time in the crate, and reducing the reactivity so again she spends more time with us.
Foxtrot
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Foxtrot »

Goodness, I don't feel equipped to help you but is there a professional trainer in your local area that could come on recommendation?
Suzette
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Suzette »

Welcome Rippers. One of our experts will be along shortly I am sure to offer you some advice. Please hang around until they do.
My avatar is Piper, my sweet Pembroke Corgi. b. 5/11/11
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Nettle
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Nettle »

Welcome. I'm only going to give short answers to begin with because I don't want to overwhelm you, and also the stupid Board times out with long answers. Thank you for such a detailed post and also for making it easy to read by using paragraphs.

First off - the misuse of the laser pen may have caused permanent damage, along with a very young puppy being made to run full tilt into the wall ha ha. Whether you want to commit to the cost of scans to see if there is brain damage I don't know. It isn't vital and if there is, there is nothing you can do to change it. BUT it may make a difference with whether or not you persevere with this poor animal. If she is badly damaged (laser pen use can alter brain development and cause illness such as epilepsy) it may be kinder to have her euthanased. You also have children to think of.

Chewing is not only typical of this age, it releases endorphins, which the pup badly needs. Keep your wires safe by enclosing them in wide cable tubes. Same with furniture legs. Use baby gates to keep her away from things you don't want chewed and give her loads of things she is allowed to chew - cardboard boxes, big raw vegetables etc.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
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Nettle
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Nettle »

Working dog food is inappropriate for her because she isn't working. Find a colour/additive free ordinary food for her. The high-octane stuff will only make her more hyper. Independent sites such as dogfoodanalysis.com will help with telling you which foods are better quality. Don't give her anything with maize in as this inhibits serotonin uptake and she needs all the serotonin she can get.


It's great that you have noticed she is sensitive over her spay scar. It may be a recent op or there may be an issue there. Something to keep an eye on. May be a big contributor to the fear snapping.

On walks, take a big soft toy that you can put in her mouth when she looks as if she wants to bite the lead or you. Spaniels are a very 'mouthy' breed and often feel calmer when carrying something.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Rippers
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:42 am

Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Thank you for the replies. Just about to peruse them properly but wanted to say thank you first as I wasn't sure if I'd completely bombarded you all!
Rippers
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:42 am

Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Nettle wrote:Welcome. I'm only going to give short answers to begin with because I don't want to overwhelm you, and also the stupid Board times out with long answers. Thank you for such a detailed post and also for making it easy to read by using paragraphs.

First off - the misuse of the laser pen may have caused permanent damage, along with a very young puppy being made to run full tilt into the wall ha ha. Whether you want to commit to the cost of scans to see if there is brain damage I don't know. It isn't vital and if there is, there is nothing you can do to change it. BUT it may make a difference with whether or not you persevere with this poor animal. If she is badly damaged (laser pen use can alter brain development and cause illness such as epilepsy) it may be kinder to have her euthanased. You also have children to think of.

I will be popping her to my vet for a check up soon so will ask him his advice regarding this. It is not something I had even considered. Gut feeling is that there isn't, purely due to the progress she has made with us BUT I'm no vet and will check.

Chewing is not only typical of this age, it releases endorphins, which the pup badly needs. Keep your wires safe by enclosing them in wide cable tubes. Same with furniture legs. Use baby gates to keep her away from things you don't want chewed and give her loads of things she is allowed to chew - cardboard boxes, big raw vegetables etc. she has lots of things she can chew, and I have started using the trading method to redirect her from things she shouldn't chew, so already seeing a way she can deal with this. She is gated off from the front room at the moment because of this but also because we have cats and whilst she doesn't bother with them when they're asleep on the sofa, when they jump off she wants to play. Either her or the cats will get injured as one of mine is not backwards about coming forwards with her claws and I know that dogs can kill cats so it's not a risk I'm going to take

Lots to think about, and worry about, but I'm doing lots of research and upping my game around her. I'm not shy of working hard and if she needs a chance, she's got it with us :)
Last edited by Rippers on Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rippers
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Nettle wrote:Working dog food is inappropriate for her because she isn't working. Find a colour/additive free ordinary food for her. The high-octane stuff will only make her more hyper. Independent sites such as dogfoodanalysis.com will help with telling you which foods are better quality. Don't give her anything with maize in as this inhibits serotonin uptake and she needs all the serotonin she can get.

i did know that the food was in appropriate and exacerbating her issues but wanted to wait and let her stomach settle before changing another thing, I think you are right and it neeeds to go now. I will check that site out now and find a replacement. I didn't know that about maize!

It's great that you have noticed she is sensitive over her spay scar. It may be a recent op or there may be an issue there. Something to keep an eye on. May be a big contributor to the fear snapping.
the worse of her snapping is always around that area. I have slowed down even more around her (I thought I had done But reviewing my actions around her I can see that I'm not consistently slow, I forget or get distracted or think she is okay and miss signs where she's telling me she isn't. I should know better, hopefully she will see the change in me )

On walks, take a big soft toy that you can put in her mouth when she looks as if she wants to bite the lead or you. Spaniels are a very 'mouthy' breed and often feel calmer when carrying something.

i literally just started doing this this evening, it works! She adores her soft toys WHY didn't I think of it before. Thank you
Last edited by Rippers on Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Rippers
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

On a different note, does everyone else have to verify they're not a robot before any post will go though?
Rippers
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Foxtrot wrote:Goodness, I don't feel equipped to help you but is there a professional trainer in your local area that could come on recommendation?

I have a dear friend who is a good trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods, sadly she lives a way away from me now (we're both forces families) but we are planning a trip for her to visit.

For now I am watching 'it's me or the dog' from the very first episode as it's all on demand on my sky box so have already seen a couple of things there that I could be doing.
JudyN
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by JudyN »

Rippers wrote:On a different note, does everyone else have to verify they're not a robot before any post will go though?
Yes, though it tends to only happen with longer posts - or possibly posts you take a long time composing. Sorry about that - it's a ruddy nuisance and the powers-that-be have been informed we could do without it.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Rippers
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:42 am

Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Ah okay, was wondering if it was just me, i shall put up with it :)
Foxtrot
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Foxtrot »

Rippers wrote:
Foxtrot wrote:Goodness, I don't feel equipped to help you but is there a professional trainer in your local area that could come on recommendation?

I have a dear friend who is a good trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods, sadly she lives a way away from me now (we're both forces families) but we are planning a trip for her to visit.

For now I am watching 'it's me or the dog' from the very first episode as it's all on demand on my sky box so have already seen a couple of things there that I could be doing.
You sound like me. The number of you tube videos I've consumed.

She sounds a challenge but it's amazing how small things help so much, that soft toy, who'd have thunk it?
Rippers
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Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

Tiny update, she's fast asleep and not in her crate (usually if out of it she'd be chasing shadows and can't relax) and we've had no accidents this evening yet either.

Baby steps :)
Rippers
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:42 am

Re: 8mo springer puppy - huge post requesting advice please

Post by Rippers »

She was out of her crate all night last night with no accidents!
We are managing the excited nipping better and have only had one 'get off me' attempt at a nip - which I now see was my fault as I saw the signs that she wasn't happy and I didn't recognise them quickly enough.

She has got a bit worse with the light / shadow reactivity last night and today but I feel like it's redirected because she's doing better with the other things. I'm attempting to claim the space when she goes for the walls, sometimes it works, sometimes she then gets excited about my feet! :roll: :lol:

Giving her lots of things to chew (she has some ice at the moment, and a carrot is in pieces all over my landing but she seems happier I think. Long road ahead but I feel that we have had a small step forward and that's really motivating!
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