Mouthing?

[Shalista]

Hey so, back story, I've been feeling guilty that I'm away from home so much so i always try to get in at least a 10-minute snuggle session with him in bed before i go to sleep and another when i wake up. I think that's part of the reason why he has improved so much on his love of being pet.

Now, bax has never been the whole, sit quietly and be pet, type. he's, in a word, awkward. He kind of wriggles all over, climbs up to wuffle your face, and generally tries to smoosh himself into your personal space while you pet him. this has been getting progressively 'worse'. i put 'worse' in scare quotes because tbh i don't really mind. i think that's part of his personality and if he wants to wiggle around while being pet (and that's how he enjoys being pet) so be it.

Last night was incredible though. he was smooshing himself around me and rolling all over as i pet him and he actually rolled onto his back a couple of times for belly pets. i was thrilled!!!!!!!!!!!!....but then he smooshed his snout against my hand and chattered his teeth. my question is... does that count as mouthing? he hasn't mouthed in literally years. He was clearly happy but I can't tell if i should have stopped play/pets then or not. He didn't even really open his mouth, he just smooshed his lips against my hand and chattered his teeth. i think I recall reading somewhere that greyhounds do something similar? Was it mouthing? should i have stopped play? a few minutes later he humped my leg twice, both times i pushed him off and THEN i stopped play, gave him a cold shoulder, and went to bed. (i don't think he's EVER humped me before.)

So, thoughts? Should i try for calmer petting sessions? should i insist that he DOESN'T wriggle like an eel when i pet him? Should i have stopped petting him when he chattered/mouthed? Was i right to give him a cold shoulder and go to bed when he started humping? SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT A SIMPLE PETTING SESSION!!!!!!!

[Shalista]

Brought bax in to get his nails trimmed and mentioned the chattering to the vet tech. she doesn't know why dogs do it but apparently her bichon/poo mix will chatter against fabric of the faces of other dogs when he gets to excited

[Erica]

It sounds like he was getting overexcited, yes - the humping is probably from excitement and stress (though not all stress is bad stress, it still was stressful). I might try taking breaks during petting sessions if he gets overexcited and trying to get him to calm down again. Maybe something more like a massage would help him relax? We also teach dogs in our class that specific handling means "be calm and stay relatively still," and it can be really helpful for calming dogs down when they're juuuust on the edge of overexcitement. We use a "chin rest." Edit: just found that Kikopup has a video on it here!
Step one, hold left hand out flat with nothing in it, treat in right hand, lure dog to place their chin on your left hand, feed the treat. When they've eaten the treat move both hands away. Practice for several days.
Step two, hold left hand out flat with nothing in it, lure dog to place their chin on your left hand, withhold treat (6" or so away) for a second or so, mark with "yes" or click, remove left hand, wait half a second, THEN feed treat. If the dog starts ducking their head away or wiggling away from your left hand, go back to step one for a while longer. Once you get to this step, and they're comfortable with it, you start looking for moments of calm. If the dog has dancing feet, or is wagging their tail furiously, wait for even a split second of reduced excitement. Especially at home, it would help to work with low-level treats on this (for most dogs, kibble instead of hot dog) so the dog is just like, "ooh, a treat" and not "OH MY GOD!!! HOT DOG! OOOH IT'S MY LUCKY DAY I GET HOT DOG!!!"
Then work on duration and when the dog is more amped up, ask for a chin rest and see if they calm down. You can also work with your hand on the side of their face, or on the top of their head, or on their chest or shoulder or whatever.
(You can also switch left and right hands if that's easier for you, but I wanted to make it clear which hand is doing what, as that's the trickiest part of this!)

If he humps, again, probably was from stress so would redirect him to something else (pillow or dog bed?) and/or give him something to lick/chew, as those are also stress-relieving activities.

[Shalista]

yeah i wasnt super concerned about the humping, im more curious about the teeth chattering. Is that stress to? Should i have given him a cold shoulder then?

[Ari_RR]

Assuming it is - I would try to figure how to avoid him getting stressed, rather than give him a cold shoulder when he does. Would he really be able to draw the cause-effect conclusion between him getting too excited and your cold shoulder? AND then figure himself a way not to get so excited?

My 2 cents - perhaps stop earlier, before it's too much for him....

[Shalista]

Yeah im just wondering cause thats how i handled his mouthing as pup was to stop play when he mouthed. I'm just wondering if i should have employed a similar philosophy here? or is this different from mouthing?

[JudyN]

Jasper does this. It tends to happen if he's a bit whingy on his bed, wanting some attention, but as he can also be protective of his bed I'll offer him a fleecy toy to nibble on which I hold. He'll them progress to a little nibble/chatter on my sleeve. I don't have a problem with it at all (unless he catches my flesh!) and I think giving him the cold shoulder would actually be stressful for him, as in his mind this is a 'special mummy/doggy moment'

So based on my own personal experience, I'd say don't reject Bax for this, though you might want to distract him.

[Shalista]

So based on my own personal experience, I'd say don't reject Bax for this, though you might want to distract him.

that's what i was looking for =P It was so sweet i didn't know if i should translate it as "mouthing" or something else.

Thanks for the input all. I'll try to double down on looking for calmer ways to teach bax that petting is nice. i think i'll cancel the evening and morning pets until we can do it in a calm way (thought it kind of breaks my heart) i don't want him to start and end his day all stressfully.

[Erica]

I wouldn't say you have to cancel them altogether - I'm sure he enjoys spending time with you! - but maybe break them up into shorter sessions, or an alternate bonding activity.

[JudyN]

OH has just described the chattering/nibbling as 'comforting' - i.e. Jasper using us as a comfort blanket

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. I remember a clip on youtube about 'asking' a dog if it likes being pet. Towards the end it shows some dog appeasement signals. Cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cGDYI-s-cQ

[Shalista]

I have trouble with those to be honest. Bax will do some of them and i stop petting and then he comes towards me and nuzzles under my hand for more. so i pet, and then he does more of those signs. lots of yawning and lip licking from him.