Counter Conditioning question w/ Surprise encounters

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RangerBeaut
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:46 am

Counter Conditioning question w/ Surprise encounters

Post by RangerBeaut »

Hello all - If you need to know more about my dog, i talked about, Ranger, in a post called fear aggressive lab.
I have a question regarding counter conditioning. I have be doing this with Ranger since this summer and it seems at times its getting better and other times it he isnt getting it. I have been reading non stop about it since I started this process and understand the basic principles. I have been giving him treats when we see strangers at safe distances or when he hears a noise he might react to. All of this is before he reacts or is over threshold.
when guests arrive I usually have them give him a kong or a treat to give him regardless if he is barking. He seems to settle much quicker when doing this.

my question is what do you do when you encounter a surprise stranger on walks or when you are out in your yard and your neighbor stops by unexpected and they are above their threshold?
do you start feeding him treats whether he is barking or not? Wait for him to stop barking and treat? I have been saying "thank you" whenever he barks. In my opinion it doesn't work that well or settle him down enough - maybe i need more training with that. But i am little confused on what to do when he starts barking. I have read a lot that when your dog does bark out of fear of a person or noise and you give him a treat it will not reward him for barking. It is just a little confusing to me.
Any advice? thanks.
JudyN
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Re: Counter Conditioning question w/ Surprise encounters

Post by JudyN »

RangerBeaut wrote:my question is what do you do when you encounter a surprise stranger on walks or when you are out in your yard and your neighbor stops by unexpected and they are above their threshold?
In that situation on a walk I would smartly turn around and walk briskly in the other direction - and in the garden, I would take Ranger out of the situation and then work out a way with the neighbour to stop them getting close enough to upset your dog (e.g. calling you from a distance at which point you put Ranger in the house and then go & be neighbourly.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Erica
Posts: 2697
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Counter Conditioning question w/ Surprise encounters

Post by Erica »

If he is over threshold, move him away or otherwise get him to where he feels safe - this Kikopup video goes over how to teach an emergency U-turn, which you might use on walks when you see a stranger suddenly in your path. In the yard you might take him into the house then come back out without him to have a chat.

Once the dog is reacting, they're not learning much good - they're only practicing that unwanted behavior. If you can head it off before it happens with treats etc, that's a good learning experience. If they've started reacting, you're too close and need more distance.

If he accepts treats and that quiets him down, though, that can be okay. I'd still try to get a little more distance from the scary monster, but continue feeding even if he had started barking. Dogs who are very scared are unlikely to take treats.

Edit: Whoops, Judy beat me to it :)
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
Erica
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Counter Conditioning question w/ Surprise encounters

Post by Erica »

I have read a lot that when your dog does bark out of fear of a person or noise and you give him a treat it will not reward him for barking. It is just a little confusing to me.
This is one of the hardest things to understand. When a fearful dog starts barking, feeding treats isn't working on Operant Conditioning (operant conditioning is "sit!" > dog sits > dog gets treat, and is more likely to sit in the future when they hear "sit!"). Once they are seeing something scary, we want to work with Pavlov. Pavlovian conditioning is just "thing + consequence = changed feelings." In our case, we want "Scary stranger + treats = stranger isn't so bad after all!"

We aren't focused on the behavior - we want to change the way the dog feels about the thing.

The dog is barking because they want the stranger to go away, because the stranger is, to the dog's mind, scary and dangerous. Once the dog feels like the stranger is safe and fun (because stranger = food! yum!), they won't bark to make the stranger go away.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
RangerBeaut
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:46 am

Re: Counter Conditioning question w/ Surprise encounters

Post by RangerBeaut »

thanks so much for your replies. The neighbor surprise happened the other day and once he started barking i thanked him and threw treats at him. i gave her some treats to throw and he quickly calmed down but was hesitant to go up her. I must say in most stressful situations, whether its a stranger on walks or guests arriving, he always accepts the treat. i dont remember the last time he wouldnt accept treats (cheese)in situations - recently. if he accepts the treats should i still avoid being too close to the scary object. I know the last thing we want to do is go over his threshold and have him bark but if he quickly calms down with a treat is it okay?
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