Hello there
This might be a complex issue, or it might be easy (I hope ...):
I've recently started fostering a very lovely crossbreed from a rescue. Her story (that I know so far) is that she was imported as a rescue from Romania as a young pup, with her siblings. Whilst her brother and sister found homes very quickly, she has very sadly spent her whole life in kennels (aside from the odd week/weekend here and there). So, to start with, I imagine she has some interesting socialisation issues ...
She takes to some people reasonably quickly, and bonds strongly with them (I'm one of these lucky ones), but others she's indifferent to, and some she's anything from wary to terrified of (men in particular). She seemed to get on with my partner (male) whilst at kennels, and showed more interest/lack of fear than she has done for many men, which is a large part of the reason why we're fostering her. However, since we've got her home, she won't let my OH near her, and has snapped at him a few times (and nipped too, but luckily without injury). We've had her for less than a week, so it's very early days yet I know, we just want to make sure that we're doing the right things with her to avoid exacerbating the problem.
Day 1: brought her home from kennels without incident - no barking/distress in the crate in the car at all. Short walk near the house - she was understandably a little timid, but otherwise showed no unusual behaviour. Back at the house, she now growls in a very low level when my OH is near (ears back, shrinking away) - he is careful to move very carefully around her, and not approach her, but let her approach him. She follows me everywhere (very closely) and sits outside the door when I visit that bathroom! When I return from having left a room, she jumps up excitedly (though noiselessly) and 'hugs'/licks/paws keenly. That night, we attempted to leave her in the crate in the kitchen. She was happy to go in there of her own accord, and fine when I shut the door, and when I then spent some time pottering before leaving her, but as soon as I turned the light off and left the room, she started barking anxiously, and pacing the crate. We took the decision to move the crate to the living room (where she'd spent most of the evening) which is nearer our bedroom, but she still became anxious after leaving, so in the end I slept on the sofa whilst she moved from sofa to crate to floor.
Day 2: we took her for a nice long, slow walk around the local area. OH kept his distance, she gradually moved from walking as far away from him as possible, to allowing him to walk her (this was over a period of about 5 hours). She was perfectly happy to lie near him in a pub beer garden, and wasn't anxious at me leaving them alone together to visit the bathroom, which makes me think perhaps some of her issues have to do with territory? We decided that OH should be the high-value treat-giver (sausages), which she takes hesitantly (he always offers them from a crouched position, hand low to the floor, and waits for her to approach). Back at home, the low-level growling continued, but on a slightly lesser scale, she's now happy to stay sitting on the sofa with him (albeit at opposite ends). That night, we're unable to leave her again due to the barking (OH needs to sleep in order to function at work!, as do the neighbours ...), so I stay on the sofa again. I spent some time encouraging her into her crate - we have glass panels in the lounge door, so every time I left the room, she came to the door. I only entered again when she went in the crate. When she left the crate, I left the room. Repeat about 20 times, and then she remained in the crate. I then shut the crate door to test the water. She pushed it open after half an hour or so, I left the room (etc.). Next time I locked the crate (not with a lock as such, but just used the catch). She paced a little to start, but then settled. I (at last) managed some sleep on the sofa, uninterrupted by paws and licks (from the dog of course, not OH).
Day 3: OH now is the official food-provider - he is the one to dish up all meals, and is still delivering the occasional high-value treat. We all go for a morning stroll (which end up being rather longer than intended due to finding a stray pup - long story, irrelevant to this one right now). She's now a little happier walking nearer him, but he's largely ignoring her to allow her to make her own mind up. On the rare occasion he forgets to move like a cat, she snaps at him as he passes her. Her ears don't go back now, nor does she shrink away, so her confidence appears to be building. During the day, I go upstairs for a nap, leaving her in the room with him. She's anxious at first, but doesn't bark and soon settles in the crate/floor. She seems to be happier to sit nearer him on the sofa now, and even lies with a paw touching him. That night, I leave the room first, and OH stays on the sofa. She paces at first, and is clearly unhappy that I'm gone, but doesn't bark, and chooses to sleep in the crate herself. Needless to say, OH is not disturbed by licks and paws.
Day 4: VERY happy to see me in the morning. Jumping up, pawing, panting, puppy-like nibbling and clumsiness towards me. She does manage to obey 'sit' commands during this excited state, but is still pawing whilst trying to sit obediently. OH tries to move past her carefully, and she nips him again, so perhaps we're not making progress at all!
Additional info that may be relevant: Virtually all of the kennel staff were female, so she has had little contact with men. She is unreactive to other dogs (quite the opposite, she actually seems to calm them down, and is very aloof with them!). She's uninterested in her Kong (although perhaps this is because she doesn't like peanut butter or carrots?) and generally uninterested in other toys we have (squeaky rubber thing, wobble/treat hiding plastic thing) but did eventually attack with relish a long furry monkey thing with a (now defunct) squeaker. I've recorded her (Manything app for iOS devices - genius) when leaving the room and she shows instant signs of anxiety apparently - whimpering, pacing, apparent disorientation, dashing about, barking), and then is overjoyed when I return (mere seconds sometimes later). Oddly, I left her in the crate in the car (large car park) for approximately 15 minutes whilst at a shop recently, and she seemed unperturbed. I certainly heard no barking, nor saw any pacing.
So, I appreciate there is no 'quick fix', and indeed there may be no complete fix as she hasn't had the easiest of starts. However, we're prepared to do whatever we can to help her/us. ANY help at all is appreciated - ideas for training/toys/food? I should add that neither of us have lived with a dog as adults, so we're totally inexperienced!
Looking forward to some responses .... thank you in advance.
Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
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Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
Wow, I think you've made a lot of progress in very few days! I wouldn't push anything - don't try to get OH to do more, just let them peacefully coexist. Any time she nips or growls at him, think about how it could have been avoided. If it's on the sofa, this might be a reason to avoid 'sofa sharing' for the time being. If he needs to walk close to or past her, either you could call her to move her out of his way, or he could throw a treat for her to go & get. With other men on walks, don't let them approach her, but you could treat her when she sees one - she needs to become accustomed to them from what feels to her to be a safe distance.
Normally we would suggest letting her sleep in your bedroom, but as she's a foster I can understand it might be important for her to be able to sleep downstairs to give her a better chance of adoption. Don't be in too much of a hurry to leave her alone at night, though with the progress you've made so far it might not be long.
There's a thread on separation anxiety here which might help: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20143
Overall, rather than being in a hurry to give her new experiences, you want her to realise that the world, after all, is a safe place - and then introduce her to new experiences.
How old is she now, and how long was she in kennels for?
Normally we would suggest letting her sleep in your bedroom, but as she's a foster I can understand it might be important for her to be able to sleep downstairs to give her a better chance of adoption. Don't be in too much of a hurry to leave her alone at night, though with the progress you've made so far it might not be long.
There's a thread on separation anxiety here which might help: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=20143
Overall, rather than being in a hurry to give her new experiences, you want her to realise that the world, after all, is a safe place - and then introduce her to new experiences.
How old is she now, and how long was she in kennels for?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
She's been in kennels for over 4 years. So very sad, and she's remarkably well-adjusted surely given that length of incarceration! So, she's around 5 years old.
She seems to only growl at my partner, oddly! Not a full-on one with teeth bared, but a closed-mouth throat rumble, accompanied with very still eye-contact. It happens sometimes when he enters a room (at some distance from her), or sometimes when he passes close by. Being close is kind of unavoidable as all of the rooms in the house are very small. She observes him carefully at all times, usually with head to one side. Has she placed herself above him in the house hierarchy perhaps? Should I be more aloof with her to avoid making the problem worse? I feel terrible for my OH, as he was very much looking forward to participating in the whole fostering experience (and was especially looking forward to walks) but he now feels rather rejected and marginalised! Especially given that she had shown him attention in the kennel, and had approached him easily there.
She's generally not interested in other humans when we're out on walks, and whether they're male or female, she stays away, eyeing them suspiciously. The most obvious reaction she had was to a man with a hat and a fishing rod, who was at least 10 feet away from her and didn't make any eye contact.
OH is very reluctant to allow her in the bedroom, as am I I suppose. We're trying to be careful not to become too attached to her, nor vice versa, and don't want her to get used to behaviours that might be unacceptable for other homes. However, both of us need sleep in order to be patient with her, and I'm a terrible sleeper at the best of times let alone on an uncomfortable sofa ...
She has a very large crate (we got the largest from the rescue in order to accommodate any dog in it) but I've since read that a crate that is too large may not be seen as safe? The crate is 47 inches and she's around 35 inches from nose to base of tail. It is covered with a blanket on all sides apart from the door, in the corner of the room, and is lined with a furry blanket, padded dog bed and she has her food bowl in it.
I'm wondering also if she's having enough stimulation; she's come from a very noisy kennel environment to a VERY quiet home. As it's firework season, I'm unable to take her out for a late night walk to tire her before sleep, so was looking to get some toys/training aids to help exhaust her. I've got a clicker and pointer on the list, are there any toys/games that are recommended? As I said, she seems very disinterested in a Kong, has NO interest in the rope tug-of-ware toy I have, doesn't care for the rubbber squeaky, but did like the furry soft toy-type squeaky, the fussy thing!
Luckily for us, there is a dog park nearby which doesn't charge for fostered rescue dogs. They also have a quiet room which we can hire for free to enable her to run around without being bothered by other dogs (as she's a foster, she has to stay on a lead at all times to comply with insurances) so we're hoping to find a toy that will help her along with this.
She seems to only growl at my partner, oddly! Not a full-on one with teeth bared, but a closed-mouth throat rumble, accompanied with very still eye-contact. It happens sometimes when he enters a room (at some distance from her), or sometimes when he passes close by. Being close is kind of unavoidable as all of the rooms in the house are very small. She observes him carefully at all times, usually with head to one side. Has she placed herself above him in the house hierarchy perhaps? Should I be more aloof with her to avoid making the problem worse? I feel terrible for my OH, as he was very much looking forward to participating in the whole fostering experience (and was especially looking forward to walks) but he now feels rather rejected and marginalised! Especially given that she had shown him attention in the kennel, and had approached him easily there.
She's generally not interested in other humans when we're out on walks, and whether they're male or female, she stays away, eyeing them suspiciously. The most obvious reaction she had was to a man with a hat and a fishing rod, who was at least 10 feet away from her and didn't make any eye contact.
OH is very reluctant to allow her in the bedroom, as am I I suppose. We're trying to be careful not to become too attached to her, nor vice versa, and don't want her to get used to behaviours that might be unacceptable for other homes. However, both of us need sleep in order to be patient with her, and I'm a terrible sleeper at the best of times let alone on an uncomfortable sofa ...
She has a very large crate (we got the largest from the rescue in order to accommodate any dog in it) but I've since read that a crate that is too large may not be seen as safe? The crate is 47 inches and she's around 35 inches from nose to base of tail. It is covered with a blanket on all sides apart from the door, in the corner of the room, and is lined with a furry blanket, padded dog bed and she has her food bowl in it.
I'm wondering also if she's having enough stimulation; she's come from a very noisy kennel environment to a VERY quiet home. As it's firework season, I'm unable to take her out for a late night walk to tire her before sleep, so was looking to get some toys/training aids to help exhaust her. I've got a clicker and pointer on the list, are there any toys/games that are recommended? As I said, she seems very disinterested in a Kong, has NO interest in the rope tug-of-ware toy I have, doesn't care for the rubbber squeaky, but did like the furry soft toy-type squeaky, the fussy thing!
Luckily for us, there is a dog park nearby which doesn't charge for fostered rescue dogs. They also have a quiet room which we can hire for free to enable her to run around without being bothered by other dogs (as she's a foster, she has to stay on a lead at all times to comply with insurances) so we're hoping to find a toy that will help her along with this.
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
Dogs don't have a strict social hierarchy, so that won't be the problem.Has she placed herself above him in the house hierarchy perhaps? Should I be more aloof with her to avoid making the problem worse?
Your earlier observation - that she was not used to being around men and was afraid of them - is correct, I would say! Being more aloof may make her even more worried about things. After so long in the kennels, there will definitely be an adjustment period. The best thing to do is let her move at her pace and adjust to the changes she's experiencing.Judy's advice is good - don't pressure her into interacting with your OH more, and have him give her space.
The crate sounds like a fine size, and covering it with a blanket is a good idea.
For mental exercise/stimulation, check out this thread. It's got a lot of ideas
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
No, the whole idea of there being a pack hierarchy in the family has been shown to be wrong. There's much more on that subject here: https://positively.com/dog-training/myt ... -debunked/ Almost certainly, she's simply nervous of men, or of something specific about your OH (which could be his height, voice, anything). Note that a growl isn't aggression - it's the dog's way of saying 'I'm not happy in this situation.' I caan understand how your OH feels though!evilsheep wrote:Has she placed herself above him in the house hierarchy perhaps? Should I be more aloof with her to avoid making the problem worse?
I hear ya - originally our dog was going to sleep downstairs and OH and I took it in turns to sleep on an old mattress with him - he ended up in our bedroom before long! Hopefully she'll be comfortable sleeping on her own very soon.However, both of us need sleep in order to be patient with her, and I'm a terrible sleeper at the best of times let alone on an uncomfortable sofa ...
If she looks relaxed in it, it's probably fine for her - they're all different. You could try blocking off the far end with a cardboard box draped in a blanket if you think she's not too happy in there.She has a very large crate (we got the largest from the rescue in order to accommodate any dog in it) but I've since read that a crate that is too large may not be seen as safe? The crate is 47 inches and she's around 35 inches from nose to base of tail. It is covered with a blanket on all sides apart from the door, in the corner of the room, and is lined with a furry blanket, padded dog bed and she has her food bowl in it.
There's a thread on exercising your dog's mind here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1135 Depending on your budget, Nina Ottoson toys (easily found online) are excellent, though if you're creative you might be able to make something similar. One of my favourite games is 'Hide and seek'. I'll show Jasper a toy & say 'hide & seek', ask him to wait, hide it in another room and then call him. When he finds the toy he brings it to me in exchange for a treat. It works on a lot of different skills, some of which have to be trained individually, but he picked it up very quickly. Of course, your girl could be completely different. And it will take a while for her to come out of her shell and be her real self.are there any toys/games that are recommended? As I said, she seems very disinterested in a Kong, has NO interest in the rope tug-of-ware toy I have, doesn't care for the rubbber squeaky, but did like the furry soft toy-type squeaky, the fussy thing!
ETA: Cross-posted with Erica!
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
She was absolutely fine with him at the kennels though? Admittedly not as welcoming as she was with me, but more than happy to approach him and touch nose-to-nose, offer paw etc.JudyN wrote:Almost certainly, she's simply nervous of men, or of something specific about your OH (which could be his height, voice, anything). Note that a growl isn't aggression - it's the dog's way of saying 'I'm not happy in this situation.' I caan understand how your OH feels though
I attempted to 'train' her into the crate again last night, but she seems to have cottoned into my plan and instead started to move towards the crate obediently before dashing back onto the sofa and pretending to sleep! I was laughing too much (and too tired) to pursue it, so let her sleep on my feet for a while before she eventually took herself off to the crate.
Even though I was in the same room, she was very excited to 'see' me when I woke up (licks/paws/jumping etc) again. The postman arrived early and brought her new toys - Kong Snugga Wubba (big success!), a Trixie puzzle toy (the treat hiding kind - she discovered all within seconds), clicker, pointer and - the most successful toy - the cardboard box it all came in ...
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
One more thing - she will not play with toys/games/respond to clicker at all when he's in the room.
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
She's one smart cookieevilsheep wrote:she seems to have cottoned into my plan and instead started to move towards the crate obediently before dashing back onto the sofa and pretending to sleep! I was laughing too much (and too tired) to pursue it, so let her sleep on my feet for a while before she eventually took herself off to the crate.
The Snugga Wugga is one of Jasper's favourites too. I'm not sure why she would have been different with OH at the kennels and at home, but dogs can be very situational. A 'visitor' to her kennel may be very different in her mind to a permanent resident in new home. It really is very early days. A friend of mine has a Romanian street dog who, when she arrived, barely left her open crate for days, only slinking out in the middle of the night to eat. It was a few days before my friend even spoke to her or looked at her directly, because she was so traumatised. A couple of years on she's a normal happy dog, if a little timid. Time really is a great healer 
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
So, today's update:
I attempted to leave her alone last night (same relaxing classical music playing as all other nights, night light on), and she paced for a bit, then seemingly settled on the sofa, and then paced, sofa, then barking/distress. So another night on the sofa for me. I think we're going to try a smaller crate in the bedroom tonight as my back can't take more of this. How small is too small for a crate? I was going to use the car one as the large lounge one won't fit in our bedroom.
We took her out for a short walk yesterday, and OH clicked and treated with cheese (she LOVES cheese it seems). She's timid around him, but will walk near him and takes treats. The problems start when we get into the house; only then does she growl and snap. He literally passes her backed against the wall, hands in, no eye contact, yet she still goes for a snap (she usually catches clothing not skin). Understandably, OH is concerned about sleeping in the same room as her!
Anything more we can do? He's not encouraging her to play as we're trying to move at her pace, so as soon as she growls, he backs right off (out of the room if needs be). We're off out for a walk with a ball and a frisbee now to see if she'll play outdoors with him. However, we're expecting the growler will return as soon as we get home ....
I attempted to leave her alone last night (same relaxing classical music playing as all other nights, night light on), and she paced for a bit, then seemingly settled on the sofa, and then paced, sofa, then barking/distress. So another night on the sofa for me. I think we're going to try a smaller crate in the bedroom tonight as my back can't take more of this. How small is too small for a crate? I was going to use the car one as the large lounge one won't fit in our bedroom.
We took her out for a short walk yesterday, and OH clicked and treated with cheese (she LOVES cheese it seems). She's timid around him, but will walk near him and takes treats. The problems start when we get into the house; only then does she growl and snap. He literally passes her backed against the wall, hands in, no eye contact, yet she still goes for a snap (she usually catches clothing not skin). Understandably, OH is concerned about sleeping in the same room as her!
Anything more we can do? He's not encouraging her to play as we're trying to move at her pace, so as soon as she growls, he backs right off (out of the room if needs be). We're off out for a walk with a ball and a frisbee now to see if she'll play outdoors with him. However, we're expecting the growler will return as soon as we get home ....
Re: Fostering a Rescue: separation anxiety, man-fear, nipping, where to start?
Ideally, he needs to avoid eliciting the growl in the first place, but it's not always possible. Would it work if he threw a bit of cheese to the far side of the room so she'll go over there, giving him room to get to where he wants to be? He could try dropping cheese close to her on a regular basis. Or you could teach her that when he appears, a treat gets thrown into her crate, so she will move into what hopefully she's coming to see as a good place to be.
There's a guide for crate sizes here: https://apdt.com/pet-owners/crate-size/ I can't vouch for its accuracy, and it might depend on whether your dog likes to sprawl or curl up in a ball, but it should be a good starting point.
Some rescues have links with behaviourists. If yours does, and if it's a positive behaviourist (who won't suggest you or OH need to reduce her status, or correct her when she growls), it might be worth arranging a meeting, as they would be able to see the body language (yours, OH's and the dog's), see the layout of your house and maybe suggest some management strategies.
There's a guide for crate sizes here: https://apdt.com/pet-owners/crate-size/ I can't vouch for its accuracy, and it might depend on whether your dog likes to sprawl or curl up in a ball, but it should be a good starting point.
Some rescues have links with behaviourists. If yours does, and if it's a positive behaviourist (who won't suggest you or OH need to reduce her status, or correct her when she growls), it might be worth arranging a meeting, as they would be able to see the body language (yours, OH's and the dog's), see the layout of your house and maybe suggest some management strategies.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
