Regaining puppy's trust

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btr323
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Regaining puppy's trust

Post by btr323 »

TLDR: My dog has recently become afraid of me. What can I do to regain her trust? How can I continue her training without resorting to methods that require leash-tugs or other forms of discipline?

I need some help with my dog, Gypsy. Gypsy is a 6-month-old lab mix who has been shy and anxious since I took her home from the shelter. (The first thing she did when we got to my apartment was hide under my bed!) Regardless, she's learned to trust me and to look to me when feeling anxious, and everything has been remarkably smooth sailing until a few weeks ago.

I have been training Gypsy on my own, using some techniques in a couple of dog books that my friend gave me. They're mostly based on positive reinforcement--clicks and treats galore!--but with a few elements that I think might have been too aversive. E.g., when I was teaching Gypsy not to climb up on the couch, I would wait until she started trying to get up then yank her off with her leash. Regardless, she's been a quick study and has all of the basic commands except for recall down pat, and hadn't really shown any fear towards me.

Things changed a couple of weeks ago, and the only turning point I can think of was a nighttime walk gone wrong. I was taking Gypsy out for the last walk of the night--she's house trained by now, but I don't want to push anything--and had her poo bagged up to take to the apartment dumpster. Gypsy has always been on edge around the dumpster, and this time she heard or saw something and just *bolted*. She literally ran out of her collar--pulled it right over her head. Gypsy was panicked, off-leash in the parking lot, and might as well be invisible at night, so I tried to walk to her as calmly and quickly as possible to corral her. She kept running away from me (I think in fear--I've tried to make sure that whenever we play chase, it's her chasing me and not the other way around), but I eventually cornered her. I managed to snag her ankle. I was holding it too tightly and she was yelping but I was more afraid at the time of her getting loose again and getting hit by a car.

Since that night, we've had some high points, but her demeanor towards me is much more hesitant and fearful. She'll have episodes where she's absolutely terrified of me--turns her head from me, tucks her tail, licks her lips, shows the whites of her eyes, and will even try to stay on the other side of the room from me or recoil when I reach down to pet her. But oddly enough, these are just episodes. She'll still greet me happily at the door after I've been gone, and is always good for a snuggle in my lap after I let her out of her crate in the morning. At the same time, when she hears certain commands like "Down" that I've only ever enforced gently, she'll tuck her tail and lick her lips and avoid eye contact. I've cut out almost all leash tugging and corrections other than a verbal "ep," but even a stern "ep" sometimes scares her! What's more, What's more, I'm afraid that her fear of me is slowing the learning process to a halt. We've been working on the "Stand" command for about three weeks--she picked up on the basics of "Come" in about a day, by contrast--and I've had to give up on it because it seems to scare her rather than actually register as a command.

So I have a few questions for any kind souls willing to help: First, how do I regain her trust? I've been feeding her treats like I'm a Pez dispenser; we've reached the point where I'm halving the amount of food in her bowl and feeding her the difference as treats throughout the day. I've also gotten a diffuser of some dog appeasing pheromone that I've plugged into the wall. These seem to have helped a bit, but she still manifests fear if I look at her the wrong way. Second, is this just a puppy phase, and I'm overreacting? And third, how can I continue to train her without physical discipline? It seems like I need to cut out any physical contact that isn't both loving and initiated by Gypsy. But then how do I correct her for breaking rank when we're practicing "Stay," or for dashing away when she's in Heel?

Much thanks for any help. I'm really at my wit's end here.
JudyN
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by JudyN »

Ah, the poor girl. You did what you had to do when she slipped her collar, it couldn't be helped. Though I would make a point of avoiding the dumpster for now - leave the bag by your door, and return to the dumpster when you're on your own.

Honestly, you can train her with no corrections whatsoever. Don't enforce anything. If she breaks a 'stay', you're trying to get her to stay for too long. Shorten the time, and then reward her. If she does break stay, just ignore it and don't reward (and go for a shorter stay next time). Praise and treat when she's walking nicely to heel, but again, only do it for as long as she can. I'm not an expert, but if there's anything else you're not sure how to deal with 100% positively, do ask - we will find a way!

I'm sure you know, you need to take all the pressure off her for now. If she's worried about 'down' (which can put a dog in a vulnerable position in their minds) then simply 'capture' the behaviour - if she goes into a down naturally, say 'down' and treat her.

Clicker training can also be great for building confidence. There's some threads on clicker training in this post: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11503 Also, look on YouTube for '101 uses for a box' - this gets the dog thinking, and discovering that there is no 'wrong'.

I really like the book The Puppy Primer by Patricia McConnell - it's very detailed, and will show you how to teach all sorts of skills without corrections.

Hopefully others will have more ideas for how to help her regain her trust. Good luck!
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Sanna
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Sanna »

Couple of thoughts in addition to Judy's answer: Bear in mind that there's also often a second fear period around 6 months old, on top of the fact that you already have a shy and sensitive dog, and combined with a really unfortunate incident. Ride it out gently. Don't push her. Give her time and make her feel safe.

As for training it might not be a bad idea to take a complete break for a few weeks. 'Formal' training sessions may just be too much pressure for her, especially right now. Focus instead on just being with her; or do nosework (great for building confidence), play games, explore, have fun, sit&watch the world go by together- basically strengthen your relationship with no pressure.
At the same time still reward her for all the things she does that are good :D so she'll still be learning just as much (if not more- it's very hard to learn when you're stressed).

The 2 absolute best pieces of advice I have been given by trainers are:
Priority number one: bond with your dog- obedience and tricks can always be taught later ;)
When we want to teach a dog something- is the dog having fun?
Last edited by Sanna on Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
btr323
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by btr323 »

Thanks, Judy. I'd been using a clicker to supplement the training, but looking through some of the links on the thread you referenced I'd like to exclusively train with the clicker from here on out. (The "101 Uses for a Box" game looks like great bonding time / confidence building too!)

My biggest clicker-related question is this: How do you dissuade the dog from behaviors that you don't want and might not be able to just ignore (e.g., stealing trash from the garbage bin)? Gypsy isn't yet tall enough to counter surf, but she certainly loves going couch surfing--how do I keep her from performing these behaviors that are otherwise self-reinforcing?

Sanna, I think that's a really good idea. I've already scaled back on our training times, but I imagine it would help to fully remove those sorts of situations where she stresses about what I want from her. I've read a lot of recommendations for nosework to build confidence and bond with your dog, but it's a completely novel concept to me and a few Google searches have been a little overwhelming. Do you have any recommendations on where to start? Can I just set out a few boxes, hide treats in one or two of them, and then let Gypsy go to town?

Finally, you mentioned how important it is to make sure that the dog is having fun during training sessions. Gypsy sometimes does, but sometimes doesn't. How can I liven things up for her? I've tried increasing my excitement level (in voice, demeanor, etc.) but that often over-excites her to where she's not in a mindset to be trained. Would it help to increase the "value" of her treats (e.g., upgrading from store-bought treats to bits of hot dog or cheese)? Or should my focus be more on making training more like playtime?

Thanks a million to both of you, I really can't overstate how much I appreciate it. I love this dog so much--Gypsy is the first dog I've ever had sole responsibility for--and it tears me up to see her develop this fear and anxiety.
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Sanna »

Argh I just typed up a long reply and got timed out and lost the whole post :evil: sorry! Will try again in brief points, please ask if anything's unclear!
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Sanna »

Firstly, you sound like a wonderful and dedicated owner :D

Re unwanted behaviour- prevent&manage wherever possible! How does that help you may ask? The more a dog does a behaviour, particularly something super rewarding like bin-raiding or sofa-surfing (regardless of whether it is 'good' or 'bad' behaviour) the better the dog gets at it. And once the behaviour becomes learned/ habit it is really hard to un-learn it (I know this from personal experience..). So prevent access to the bin. Block access to the sofa when you're not there. Keep counters clean so there's never anything rewarding to be had from there.

Then teach a positive interrupter- here's a great tutorial https://youtu.be/TBvPaqMZyo8

And redirect- if your dog is doing, or about to do, something you'd rather she didn't- get her attention (in a positive way) and immediately give her something else to do. Makes sense? :)
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Sanna »

For nose work, this is how I was taught to start off:
Hold dog very gently by the collar and toss 1 piece of tasty treat 1-2 feet in front of you, then immediately release dog with the cue 'find it!' The dog of course already knows pretty much exactly where the treat is so will run straight out, and you praise like mad as she's eating the treat- at this stage it's really just about teaching the dog that 'find it' means there's yumminess to be found, and give the confidence to go out from you to find it.
Gradually make it harder by tossing the treat further away, hiding the treat under a box/ cup, hiding the treat under 1 of 3 cups, having your dog face the other way when you hide the treat, waiting in another room etc etc. So much fun for both of you :)
If you then want to teach her to find objects/ toys just go back to step 1.
Sanna
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Sanna »

With regards to training being fun, I think you've said it perfectly: training should be playtime :D Not in a run riot let's all go wild way, but have you ever watched a dog training class? Most people get super serious when they train 'serious' stuff like down-stay or recall- then somehow when they're doing silly tricks like roll over or bow they just loosen up and start having much more fun and the dogs have so much more fun too- I guess my point is it's good to examine our own attitude and demeanour when we're training, and always aim to not take things so seriously ;)
I think with very sensitive dogs it can be especially hard, and it's not necessarily about livening things up, as you've realised ;) I'd give her a complete break; then start really short sessions, like 2 minutes maybe, using a really good reward and doing really easy stuff so she can just enjoy getting it right- the idea being that she will have a good time, won't be pushed too far, and you'll leave her wanting more. See how she does with that maybe?
Otherwise, what are her favourite things to do? And what is she fed?
btr323
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by btr323 »

Wow, thanks so much for the detailed responses, Sanna! (I lost and had to re-type the entire original post for this thread :evil: so I feel your pain.) The compliment means a lot too, since this has been something of a crisis of confidence in my ability to raise a puppy.

The management-positive interruptor approach looks great, I'll have to start working on developing such an interruptor. I'd been doing the redirect approach, but with an "ep" or what I guess you'd call a negative interruptor. So it shouldn't be too hard to switch that out for a positive interruptor, and I'm sure Gypsy will appreciate it. My question about the management, though: what happens when those barriers are taken down? At some point, just for convenience's sake, I'd like to not have my garbage can roped off; how do I keep her out of it when she gets more free reign? Will she just stay out automatically, since she hasn't been able to get in there until I open it up to her?

Thanks for the nosework primer, it looks like that could be something that she'll really enjoy.

As for feeding and the things she enjoys: I've got Gypsy on dry food--Hill's Science Diet for large puppies, for whatever it's worth. I think her single favorite pastime is playing with a stuffed kong. That seems to trigger both the reward centers for food and for play, haha. She also really likes a good game of tug-of-war. She'll play fetch too, but loses interest after a few repetitions. She also loves swimming, but that's a difficult activity to use as a reward, haha. She's not incredibly food-motivated, which I find really surprising for a puppy of her size (she's already 55 pounds!). I've been using store-bought treats and dog biscuits, and the occasional kibble, as training rewards. They do fine if she's really hungry, but I've had instances where I clicked and Gypsy turned up her nose at the treat that followed.
JudyN
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by JudyN »

btr323 wrote:My question about the management, though: what happens when those barriers are taken down? At some point, just for convenience's sake, I'd like to not have my garbage can roped off; how do I keep her out of it when she gets more free reign? Will she just stay out automatically, since she hasn't been able to get in there until I open it up to her?
It's really not going to work, unless you make her really, really scared of the consequences of raiding the bin/worktops, which isn't a good idea. Dogs are natural scavengers, driven to seek out 'hidden' food for survival, and just one reward will lead to them repeating the behaviour. There are exceptions, whose owners tell you never 'steal', because all dogs, like people, are different. These owners will tell you that it's because of the way they trained them, but it's more likely that their dog was just that way inclined.

With careful management, the urge will diminish, but a dog's nose will tell them when there's something delicious left out for them - it will in effect be in full view, and far too tempting.

Hills Science Diet isn't a great food. This may not relate to your issues with her, but you might want to consider alternatives - check out discussion about food in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22061 There's a US dogfood review site here: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
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Nettle
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Nettle »

RE: her freaking when you said 'down' - did you say 'down' when you used to pull her off the sofa? This may have made it a scary word for her.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Erica »

Keeping the trash bin in a cabinet or getting one with a locking top is a pretty simple solution. It's one I'd do for any dog - they might not go after most foods, but maybe one night the sauce you had on some not-dog-safe food was irresistible to them and suddenly your dog has eaten something bad for them! Personally, not a risk I want to take. (Also, my dog is an unapologetic scavenger so it's something I'll need to do for him anyways :lol: )
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btr323
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by btr323 »

Man, that's frustrating regarding the Hill's. My vet had recommended it and everything!

As for the garbage can, I keep it inside a kitchen closet and Gypsy will still lick at the doors; I don't need much convincing that it's a behavior you can't just train her out of, haha.
RE: her freaking when you said 'down' - did you say 'down' when you used to pull her off the sofa? This may have made it a scary word for her.
No, I had just given her a verbal correction--"ep, ep"--and then pulled her down. "Down" is a command that I've only ever enforced gently, so I'm on board with Judy's suggestion that it's just a vulnerable position for her. I'm 6'6" tall and a former (American) football player, so the size discrepancy would point in that direction too.

I really appreciate all this advice y'all are offering. While you're all here, I was hoping one of you could address a question I've had for a while regarding clicker training: How do you keep the dog from becoming clicker-reliant? I've heard stories of dogs who just ignore their owners unless there's a clicker in their hand. How can I increase clicker use while keeping Gypsy from developing that sort of reliance on the thing?
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by Sanna »

I'm 6'6" tall and a former (American) football player
Aah- I did wonder if you were possibly a tall and/or loud person :lol: that reminds me of something I forgot to mention: Aim for all training to be completely hands free- challenge yourself to not touch your dog or the lead ;)
(if you're in a safe area, work off lead. If you have to use a lead for safety, you could use a long line and just stand on the end.)

And be very mindful of your body language- I bet it will make a big difference to her if you make a concious effort to not lean into her space/ lean over her/ reach down/ loom etc. Train yourself to lean back rather than forward, crouch down, turn sideways on to her- basically try and compensate for your big intimidating size :lol:
btr323
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Re: Regaining puppy's trust

Post by btr323 »

Aim for all training to be completely hands free- challenge yourself to not touch your dog or the lead ;)
Got it! That'll be a big change--to date, I've positioned her manually to enforce a command. (E.g., light squeeze just below her ribs to get her to sit.) What about non-training situations? I have her sit before we walk in or out exterior doors, or off of a curb onto a street. She almost always complies, but what do I do when she doesn't? Just wait for her to do it? Or would it work to give her a positive interruption followed by a repetition of the command?
And be very mindful of your body language- I bet it will make a big difference to her if you make a conscious effort to not lean into her space/ lean over her/ reach down/ loom etc. Train yourself to lean back rather than forward, crouch down, turn sideways on to her- basically try and compensate for your big intimidating size :lol:
That makes complete sense to me. What about times when she's initiating or seeking out contact? She often licks my legs as a sign that she wants some attention. In those situations, should I just move back, crouch down, and let her come to me?

On a related note, when I sit on the ground with her she often will sit down between my legs, facing right towards me (often licking my face too, haha). I've done a ton of reading on dog body language since Gypsy started acting more fearful, and almost everything I find says that facial proximity of that variety is really intimidating for dogs. At the same time, this is something that she initiates, and seems to enjoy as physical affection. Is that sort of behavior something I also need to cut out?

Thanks much!
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