What should I use as a reward?

[dancingbygonecircles]

My dog absolutely cannot have food rewards because of a chronic issue with his pancreas. Unmedicated food makes him very sick, and the medication is extremely expensive so it is reserved solely for meal times. It is also extremely difficult to balance the medication in small doses, and if he has too much with too little food, he will also get sick, so it is safer for him to only have it with carefully measured quantities of food.

My problem is he's large and leash reactive. He also doesn't respond to praise, petting, or toys. He's an 8 year old German Shepherd with hip and elbow dysplasia, who is still very active and walked twice a day. We have another dog, which is a younger Akita, and they get along fine except when the German Shepherd redirects onto the Akita during walks.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what reward I can use to positively train my dog?

[master2]

Hi

Im not entirely sure as normally it's either food, toys or praise.

Would veg be OK I have a male GSD named Sherlock and he loves veg as a training treat his faves are carrots and spurouts?

[Sanna]

Ok so what does he like? What are his favourite things to do?

Or, if he would work best for a food reward but because of the medical issues you can't give extras- would it work to take his meals out with you (rather than feed from a bowl at home)? So he'd still get the correct and safe amount but he would be having it during walks as rewards instead?

Also, don't underestimate the value of distance for reactive dogs If you create a safe space for him every time he sees another dog; by turning around, crossing the street etc., that will be rewarding to him as well.

[Nettle]

GSDs normally like to carry things. Try him with different mouth-friendly items such as a rope tugger. Just let him carry it as part of his walk - and as Sanna says, if you manage the distances, he won't need to get defensive and reactive. He may also be better walked separately from your Akita, remembering that a good short walk is better than an unhappy longer walk.

[dancingbygonecircles]

He can have absolutely no unmedicated food, vegetables included. The entirety of his meal needs to be given within half an hour of his medication but because of his size and breed, I am not comfortable feeding him so close to exercise in case of bloat.

He does not work for tuggers. I do possess them, but they are a low value item that he has very little interest in.

If the Akita is not there, he tends to redirect onto me instead.

He likes walks. That's it. He paces and screams until he goes for a walk, and then he settles down after. He used to also be very fond of biting people, but biting people was generally regarded as somewhat unpleasant by everyone involved except for him, so he had a lot of time outs in another room and he no longer bites people. He feints a bite sometimes when I irritate him still, like if I mess with his feet too much when I'm trimming nails, or when I find a snag when I'm brushing him.

I can manage distances all right if I see the other person coming, but sometimes they sneak up behind me and I don't know they're there until the dog is lunging and snarling.

[Sanna]

He can have absolutely no unmedicated food, vegetables included. The entirety of his meal needs to be given within half an hour of his medication but because of his size and breed, I am not comfortable feeding him so close to exercise in case of bloat.

I understand your concerns and how this complicates things for you. I'm not a vet but with regards to bloat I do think that if you were to use his food on short and sedate on-lead 'training walks' that'd be fine (I believe bloat is associated more with eating/ excessive drinking just before or after more vigorous exercise like running or play). It might be worth weighing up the risks/ speaking to your vet if you think the food would be a strong reinforcer for your dog and could be an effective reward.

He used to also be very fond of biting people, but biting people was generally regarded as somewhat unpleasant by everyone involved except for him

sounds like he has a lot in common with my dog.. If he likes to bite it might work to use a bite pillow and teach him it's great fun to bite that (rather than your other dog or yourself), then once he's keen on that particular and more appropriate biting game you can whip it out as a training reward. I def agree with Nettle that I would walk them separately though, it will make things easier for everyone involved

I can manage distances all right if I see the other person coming, but sometimes they sneak up behind me and I don't know they're there until the dog is lunging and snarling.

Does that mean he's reactive to people as well as dogs?

If you can give more info (background, typical day, training etc, lots of detail is great) we'll be in a better position to brainstorm with you- I guess it's a question of looking at what you can do as opposed to what you can't

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. A big reward in general can be relief from stress, and access to SAFELY sniff and explore the environment. I'd double/triple endorse a very fine awareness of safe (from the dog's point of view) distances away from possible triggers, including to the front, behind, and to the sides (an extra pair or two of eyes would be handy for this ) . The goal for everyone is, or should be, zero over-reactions during a walk.

With such a reactive dog, walking two dogs at once could definitely be contributing to the GSD over-reactivity. Try walk one dog at a time. Walk at quieter times of day, in quieter places, less often, shorter distances, avoid dog parks, whatever it takes to reduce the number of stressful events (from the dog's point of view). If your dog is biting you and other people, seek a good Positive Reinforcement based behaviourist/trainer to help on site, in person.

Could it be pain related? It sounds like the GSD stress levels are chronically high, and need to be lowered ASAP.

It would help us to know your dog's typical daily 'diary' like food, play, games/toys, free time, regular training (what type, how much, how often, examples?), walks (how often, how far, how long, what activities), sleep/rest, time left alone, over-reactions at home, etc.etc.etc. Is there tension at home between the dogs? If so, do they both have a safe place to retreat to?
Stay safe.

[Erica]

I would also suggest looking into BAT training ("Behavior Adjustment Training"). It does require being aware of your surroundings and able to read basic body language, but both of those skills are invaluable when working with a reactive dog anyway. BAT doesn't *require* food to work but isn't as helpful as counter-conditioning can be, in my experience.

Short (5-10 minute) and slow (dog walking, not trotting) should be fine to use food for. Train for short time, then feed the leftovers at home? Look At That style games were extremely helpful for my reactive GSD. We used those in combination with BAT and counter-conditioning with great success.

I would grab you a link for Look At That but my phone is currently cracked and I have difficulty getting it to copy/paste or do much of anything, really.

[dancingbygonecircles]

His day looks a little like this, and to be honest, mine is largely structured around it for medical reasons on both sides of the leash.

He starts screaming to go out somewhere between 7 and 8am, so we go out. This is his major piece of exercise for the day and if he doesn't have it, help us all, he'll drive everyone up the wall. He's a nightmare when he's underexercised.

We briskly walk about 3km, and go to one of the local parks, where he has off-leash time to run around and sniff. He's perfectly all right off leash and his recall is fine, so the only thing I need to look out for are cats in the park, which he will chase but will also be called off of.

After, we come home and he has down-time for at least half an hour, and then I feed him. Feeding is bit of a rigmarole. I once went on a dog sledding adventure tourism thing where you stay out overnight and help with the huskies, and it's easier to feed 20 huskies in the snow at -8 degrees than it is to feed that German Shepherd one bowl of food. In the morning, he has 6 pills. Two are porcine pancreatic enzymes and are arguably the most important because without them he cannot digest food. One is a long-term antibiotic to keep chronic small-intestinal dysbiosis at bay. Three are B12 with intrinsic factor, which are very important because he doesn't get B12 in the way a normal dog does and it must be supplemented rigorously or he will get sick. One of the first symptoms of low B12 in him is increased aggression, which is common.

He's currently eating Taste of the Wild kibble, which is one of few grain-free foods both available in this country and which has less than 4% fibre. He can't digest grain even with assistance, and fibre increases risk of SID, so we've got to be very careful with it. Once his SID got out of control and he got haemorrhagic gastroenteritis and almost died. Blood was coming out both ends. So I really, really cannot do anything risky with food because it could be life threatening and has been in the past.

After he's eaten, I brush his teeth, then leave him to have a rest.

I take him back out for the bathroom at about 1pm. He and the Akita will play in the yard together.

At 5pm he has another quick bathroom break with no play, and then dinner.

At 9pm, we go for our final walk, which is about 20-30 minutes. We do not go to the park because it is dark and it is not safe for me.

I trim nails twice a week. Every three months he goes to the vet for a long-term pain relief shot. He gets quite bad topical allergies at some times during the year.

If we're going to do training, we do it around midafternoon. I usually focus on the Akita when I'm training because he's quite biddable, and he can also have treats, so we're making good progress on all sorts of things with the clicker. Training the GSD is a bit of a chore because he has nothing to work for except praises which he doesn't care for. If I try petting for a reward, all I get are stress signals from him, so I've been using praises, but he just doesn't really respond to high excited voice or enthusiasm, or even just being told "Good." He's got no play drive and if I try and engage him with toys, he'll often just turn away or only get into it half-heartedly.

He isn't people aggressive, but people here with dogs are very rude and will come up and invade your space something wicked.

His problems could be pain related, but he would've been in pain from a very young age. He had advanced osteoarthritis in both elbows by 18 months. I personally think the aggression is a habit he picked up when his B12 went low. Before we had him diagnosed with his pancreas problem, his behaviour was in a bit of a trough. Although his B12 is now up, I think he got used to reacting.

[ScarletSci]

Is there a safer area where you can walk him at antisocial hours while you work on this? For example, I find there are almost no people around at 6am, when I often walk my two (not because of reactivity in our case, just when we're all up!) Perhaps someone who could go with you for a second evening walk?

[JudyN]

I've no advice, but just want to say kudos to you for putting so much effort into caring for him when it's such a challenge I'm sure few people would be so dedicated.

[dancingbygonecircles]

I can't really get up that early myself because of personal medication issues, so 6am is out. So is any time after 10pm.

The evening walks are tolerable, after a certain point. There's almost no one on the street then except for drunk people, and they leave us alone, and never any other dog walkers, so that's quite nice. My only issue with the evenings is to get to the end of our driveway, we have to go past this one house where this guy ties an aggressive Papillion out on a long line on his yard, and it's often there in the evenings between 5 and 11pm, but there's no way out of our street except past this dog. It always goes beserk at the end of its line when I walk past it, regardless of whether I have a dog with me or not.

Unfortunately, my GSD finds going past this dog enormously stressful, but he has a good time once we're past until it's time to come back again.

I am sadly very epileptic and cannot get in a car and drive him past it to a safe point, or I would. Everywhere I take him, I have to walk there from home, and we've had a few setbacks involving lunging and barking at the Papillion as we try to leave our property.

Occasionally someone can come with me or walk the other dog, but it is not guaranteed and I must usually do them both myself.

[dancingbygonecircles]

I've no advice, but just want to say kudos to you for putting so much effort into caring for him when it's such a challenge I'm sure few people would be so dedicated.

Thank you. I suspect most people would've put him down once they realised the bill they were facing, regardless of the fact that his quality of life is still good.