Male shouting at other males

[katej215]

Hey guys,

so I've had my rescue dog since the end of July. I would say he is a generally well balanced dog when it comes to other dogs however the number of incidences where he has ended up in a row with another dog seems to be increasing at the mo and it would be good to have people's thoughts...

I would have said until recently that he would have been more likely to shout at another dog when on the lead, but lately we haven't had any incidences (but they do tend to come in bouts)...he will focus nicely on me with a treat in my hand, and we will walk smartly by with a ton of praise when we are past. However when we in areas where there are off lead dogs around he is off lead too (his recall is great, so no reason not to be, unless there are folks chucking balls, but that's another post! ). I think it would be more stressful for him being on lead being approached by an off lead dog (which would happen, as most dog's recalls are not very good around here! And of course in most people's minds their dogs need to 'play' with other dogs...grrr). So I would be worried that by him getting hassled on lead would make things worse overall.

We have never had a problem in off lead encounters with large males or entire males, even when they have been a bit rude, he usually has a look on his face which says I'm not enjoying this, but I know I need to put up and shut up and move on as fast as possible, or dogs that are shouty and nervous (he'll give them a wide birth), and will handle himself amazingly well females or puppies no matter how OTT they are. In fact he does seem to enjoy encounters with some dogs, his whole back end wags, and he will happily have a chase about with some dogs BUT some males he will take an instant dislike to and this has happened at least once each time we have been out over the last few weeks. He never goes looking for a row, they always come to him, or we are passing from opposite directions, there is literally a few seconds of greeting, then I see him freeze, and before i can say anything a row erupts. I wouldn't say it was aggressive behaviour, there has never been any biting and he has never been bitten. It usually lasts about 30 seconds, then he will come away.

I am always trying to read ahead, my eyes are on stalks watching out for people with balls for a start and I know with these situations I need to manage them better, but if he is a short distance from me and a dog comes running over there is little I can do.

Is this a case of the more he gets to practice the behaviuor the worse it may become? Is there a risk of these situations becoming aggressive? The other thing to mention is that Hattie, my other dog has been due in season for weeks now, she's not there yet, but wondering whether males are interacting differently with him because they smell her?

[JudyN]

I can't remember, how old is he now? He may be still in the process of settling in with you and feeling more relaxed so he's ready to flex his muscles. Or he may be coming to see Hattie as 'his' (possibly influenced by her being on the verge of coming into season) and wanting to keep other males away from her.

Jasper can take against other dogs - he's got much better, but surprised me this morning by lunging (on lead) at a neutered golden retriever, but the goldie was with a girl dog. Sometimes I think there's a detailed communication between all parties that is just too fleeting for us to spot (partly because we're busy trying to distract our dog).

I would say that yes, the more this happens the more he's likely to kick off, and it may well become aggressive. Keep going what you can to manage the situation so it doesn't arise and keep working hard on the recall so if it does happen you can call him away.

Also, make sure that when you see another dog, you don't freeze up and communicate your worry to him. Try to communicate 'Lalalalala, it's a dog, nothing to worry about, that means you get chicken' while being ready to tighten your grip on the lead or run in the opposite direction calling 'CHIcken' (or whatever works for you ).

BTW, when Jasper made do with simply putting a paw on an entire dog's back and giving him a filthy look the other day I told the two men with the other dog that he used to try to kill unneutered males. Then I reassured them that I meant dogs, not humans, much to the embarrassment of my friend who said she'd never walk with me again

[katej215]

thanks Judy

I can't remember, how old is he now? He may be still in the process of settling in with you and feeling more relaxed so he's ready to flex his muscles. Or he may be coming to see Hattie as 'his' (possibly influenced by her being on the verge of coming into season) and wanting to keep other males away from her.

Don't know how old he is, he's young, but definitely an adult not a teen and don't know when he was neutered. He certainly dosen't seem bothered by Hattie, in fact apart from zoomies together, they pretty much ignore each other. I was wondering whether males might be sniffing him more intently because of her and thus perceived by him as rude?

Sometimes I think there's a detailed communication between all parties that is just too fleeting for us to spot (partly because we're busy trying to distract our dog).

I agree. Mostyn was pretty shouty as soon as he saw a girl rottie at a working trials session I did with him on Saturday. However all the dogs were super hyper at the prospect of doing some tracking, and she herself I was told was reactive with other dogs, tho she didn't shout back at Mosty...so you do wonder what communication passes between them!!

BTW, when Jasper made do with simply putting a paw on an entire dog's back and giving him a filthy look the other day I told the two men with the other dog that he used to try to kill unneutered males. Then I reassured them that I meant dogs, not humans, much to the embarrassment of my friend who said she'd never walk with me again

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. I think there's probably much more communication going on than I can sense, between dogs leading up to and including greeting. Barking and lunging is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stress and fear behaviour. Try google something like "how adrenalin and cortisol affects dog behaviour". The more often stress events happen, the more likely they'll happen more often in the future.

In addition to training appropriately, try avoid potentially stressful places or times and stressful interactions as much as possible, at least for now.

One of my dogs can 'play' at the dog park if up to two or three dogs are there, but not at all if a stressful event has happened that day. I take my other dog to the dog park only if it's empty.

[Nettle]

Are you walking them together? Some dogs (either gender) can get very possessive of the other dog when 3rd party dogs appear.


Communication between approaching dogs starts way back. It's a good exercise to go to the park or similar without your own dogs and just watch when two approaching dogs start to signal to each other, what they do, how they react.

For the rest - some dogs are more reactive than others, and we don't like everyone we meet either.

[JudyN]

I also suspect that when dogs seem to be ignoring each other, there's a relationship we don't see, so he may be more interested in how other dogs are responding to Hattie than you think. I've noticed when walking with friends that even if our dogs seem to be ignoring each other, their movements seem to be subtly linked.

[katej215]

thanks for your replies guys.

Hi. I think there's probably much more communication going on than I can sense, between dogs leading up to and including greeting. Barking and lunging is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stress and fear behaviour. Try google something like "how adrenalin and cortisol affects dog behaviour". The more often stress events happen, the more likely they'll happen more often in the future.

I think on stress generally, it always rocks me back at how quickly and how intensely stress triggers can change a dog's emotional state. Mosty is teaching me well in this respect. Sometimes I think , wow he's really starting to trust me (and I'm sure he is), but then something will happen like now, we just got back from a 3 hr walk, lots of great interaction etc etc....I started to unclip his harness , postman appears through the glass of the front door, he erupts, now I can't get near him to remove the harness that is hanging round his neck until his stress levels come down again.... Putting on /taking off his harness happens several times a day , every day and normally he is very relaxed about it, happily coming over when I ask him!!! I could give you a hundred examples of scenarios like that.

Are you walking them together? Some dogs (either gender) can get very possessive of the other dog when 3rd party dogs appear.

I do walk them together, just because they get a big walk (to get the quietest and most interesting countryside for them we need to head out further)..My gut feeling is that possession isn't the issue here...BUT I am aware one's judgement can be biased based on our preconceived idea's of how things are in a given situation...

I also suspect that when dogs seem to be ignoring each other, there's a relationship we don't see, so he may be more interested in how other dogs are responding to Hattie than you think. I've noticed when walking with friends that even if our dogs seem to be ignoring each other, their movements seem to be subtly linked.

I'm sure you're right Judy. What fascinates me is how males recognise another male from a mile away. An approaching male will hone on Mosty from far away, completely ignoring Hattie, even if both my dogs are just standing still watching the approaching dog. Is it smell, it is subtle body language...?? It's very interesting. I love watching them

[Nettle]

At that distance, gender identification is chiefly about body-language, and with practice you will be able to do it too. I have a regular student for dog body language lessons, and she is always fascinated as I say the gender and entire status of an approaching dog. I'm not always right! but almost always.


I know it's another job, but do try walking the dogs separately as well as together. It doesn't have to be every day, and it doesn't have to be all that long (though those are the ideals) but you will be amazed at how different the dogs will be when apart. Also Mosty will then have to rely on you for support rather than on Hattie, and so that helps with trust and bonding.