Noise

[Shalista]

She wanted to remove him from the room because that's "his" space so it would be more effective then just taking me out? Idk....

And yeah she warned me about the extinction burst

Also talked to dad. He thinks its crap advice to since he still thinks bax is barking AT something. specifically something in our north wall (he only barks facing that wall). but he's willing to give it a shot on the condition that i kong bax when he's in a meeting.

So far Bax hasn't seemed to phased by it but he's also being unusually good today. spent the day so far snoozing on the bed. I've kicked him out a couple f times but tbh i don't think hes noticed being gone so much as being excited that the door is open? if that makes any sense. Like I'll shoo him out the room, close the door, he goes charging down the north wall of our house barking like normal but as soon as i open the door he comes running back super excited. sigh... oh bax, what am i going to do with you......

[Fundog]

Rule #1: ALWAYS listen to your dog. If he says there is something living in your north wall, then there is something living in your north wall. Have you seen any signs of infestation? Such as droppings (mouse) or even insect activity (cockroaches)?

Investigate this. Dogs are never wrong about this sort of thing.

[Shalista]

I know with 100% certainty that there are mice in our walls but our efforts to trap them have so far only rendered a single corpse. In the absence of better traps.... I'm doing the best i can

[Nettle]

Rule #1: ALWAYS listen to your dog. If he says there is something living in your north wall, then there is something living in your north wall. Have you seen any signs of infestation? Such as droppings (mouse) or even insect activity (cockroaches)?

Investigate this. Dogs are never wrong about this sort of thing.

I know with 100% certainty that there are mice in our walls but our efforts to trap them have so far only rendered a single corpse. In the absence of better traps.... I'm doing the best i can

AAAAHHHHH how LONG has it taken to get this vital bit of information?????

I'm off to beat my head against a hard surface.

Shalista I KNOW you are doing your best, but we could so have done with knowing this weeks and weeks ago........

[Shalista]

I thought it was irrelevant given that I cant hear the mice so i cant reward for him ignoring them and i cant get rid of them. He also tends to bark at me now rather then the wall. Or at least he did, first day of kicking him out of the room went fabulously.

[Nettle]

Ah, but if a dog is doing something you don't want, the first obstacle is to find out WHY. Because dogs don't do things for no reason. Though we managed (you are included in the 'we' ) to find several reasons, the chief one was only known to you.

All this time, he was barking at you to alert you to the mice.

Ask your Dad if there is anything else you as a family can do about the mice. Can you get someone in to deal with them?

[Shalista]

nope, we've tried a couple different traps and bait and got a few of them but it's a huge old farmhouse, we've always had mice (we know because we find their droppings, half eaten food, and the occasional dead on courtesy of the cat)

Even if we got an exterminator they'd just come back.

My general train of thought was that Bax had an unusually high level of... something... that was making him more sensitive to sounds. There are also trees that scrape their branches on that side of the house and at his worst me tapping my fingers on the table would set him off. Mice were one of many things that could be making Bax bark.

Lots of houses with dogs have mice. Not all dogs bark at them. I figured Bax barking at mice was a symptom of a deeper unrest. I was more interested in fixing that then fixing him barking at mice... only to have him bark at something else.

[JudyN]

It makes sense that a rat terrier would be upset/aroused by the sound of mice. It could well be that because he's been aroused so much of the time by the mice, he will have become sensitised to other sounds as well.

Fixing it still ain't easy though - have you ever tried having background noise, e.g. music, to dull the sounds that set him off?

[Shalista]

Yup, i have a noise canceling machine i use to sleep. cranked it up all day for a couple of days running. No change.

Given the fact that we've had mice in the walls his entire time here (almost 2 years) and he's only now taking offence i figured mice weren't the problem, rather a symptom of his overly upset/aroused state

[Fundog]

Let's take a minute to review everything we've learned so far:

* You started this thread in December. How long had this barking problem/unsettled behavior been going on before that?
*From what you've written in this thread and others, Bax has always been rather high strung and unsettled.
*Bax lives in a stressful environment to begin with-- people who deliberately do things to rile him up, another dog in the house he doesn't care for, people coming and going frequently, small children visiting often, etc.
*There are natural prey infesting the walls of the house. He can hear them and smell them.

You say he never took notice of the mice until just recently, and so you always chalked up his behavior to being stressed. Well, even hunting dogs who are allowed to hunt can be distracted and unable to focus on finding prey if the environment is too stressful. For example, my Dottie Monster, bred to hunt birds, loves to watch the birds at my feeder in the backyard. She will watch with great intensity. But if someone walks past (we live on a corner lot), she will forget all about those birds and start barking her fool head off! In summary, I'm thinking that all your work in helping Bax to cope with his stressful household environment is paying off, and now he is able to focus on his "job"-- alerting you to mice, so you can enable him to seek and destroy (which is what he was bred to do).

You also mention your dad having meetings and needing Bax to be quiet at those times. I take this to mean your father works from home? Honestly, this is not unreasonable at all. And you've just mentioned that your dad has also just cottoned on to the fact that Bax is barking "AT SOMETHING," and not just barking to be a nuisance.

The mice infestation: you've also just tried to discount it, saying Bax's barking is not always focused on just the walls. Well, the walls are connected to duct work and pipes in the house. The scent can be wafting out of the vents. You humans have been smelling it for so long you don't notice it anymore. It just smells like home to you. Mice who live and breed in the walls also die in the walls. I'm really surprised you haven't mentioned/noticed a foul odor yet. I guarantee you Bax smells it, and it will be worse on certain days, when the wind blows just right, and I be his barking/unsettled behavior will be worse at those times. Am I right?

I know you feel at a loss as to what to do about the mouse problem, and it sounds to me like you don't even want to pursue it, but would rather work on getting Bax to ignore it too. Firstly, you cannot take the drive out of a dog that has been bred to do a specific job. Surely, after all the time you have been reading and participating on this forum you have learned this. Secondly, this mouse problem poses a health threat to you and your family. Even if you don't live in an area where Hantavirus is prevalent, it is still a health risk. It's time to talk to an exterminator, and find out what other options you have. You may have to plan a weekend getaway and have the house fumigated. Traps are not the only way to treat a mouse infestation.

Yes, I know the mouse just come back from outside. That's where natural predators can help. Do you only have the one house cat? Do you have any barn cats that live outside? Maybe you could get some. Just get them all spayed/neutered and build them a shelter from the elements. Another predator-- one that most people are not too keen to have around-- would be a non-venomous snake, such as a gopher snake. *If* you did that, don't get more than one. You don't need them to breed and create a snake problem.

Shalista, you've done amazing things so far. It's time to expand and get an even bigger picture, needing even bigger solutions. Don't give up!

[Shalista]

Interesting point about him only just now being able to focus on the mice.

We have always had at least two indoor cats and a fluctuating number of outdoor ones. We've tried a couple of things to get rid of the mice in the house but they always come back in. Even if we fumigated they'd just come back eventually. It's not a good long term solution =( this house was built in the early 1800 and its more crack then house

[Nettle]

We never get rid of pests for ever. Just isn't possible.

Fleas. Your dog/cat has fleas, you treat for fleas, the fleas die off and in time they come back so you treat for fleas again. It's ongoing. Same with mice, just the next size up.

[Shalista]

That's why i was hoping to explore other options besides just treating reactions to mice

[Shalista]

Time to shut this thread down i think. It's been a crazy ride but i finally have peace.

I followed the behaviorists advice and that very day i noticed a steep drop off in barking. He now only barks when someone comes to the door.

Not only that but he's much calmer, preferring to snooze the day away on my bed rather then pacing and whining. I now have a dedicated reading partner (previously he wouldn't sit with me.)

It's only been a week but i hear the trumpets of victory!

[JudyN]

Phew!!

Don't be surprised or disappointed if there's setbacks - any established behaviour is likely to re-emerge from time to time, for pretty much forever. But hopefully they'll only be temporary!