Noise

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Shalista
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Noise

Post by Shalista »

So Bax (2yr old rat terrier) barks. I am fine with this. a few barks here or there when someone comes to to the door is expected and appreciated. That being said sometimes he sees something outside and he starts barking even when no one is there. No matter, says I, I'll train him to bark a few times and then stop.... I think I'm actually teaching him to bark for treats now >.<

The way this works: He sees something, gets three barks, then i call him over, say "thank you", and give him a treat. He then starts barking again. This will continue as long as i'm handing out treats. if i stop handing them out he'll eventually tire of it on his own. Have I just not been doing it long enough? I'm not home all the time so it's hard to be consistent.

Additionally: Bax whines and growls when he's upset and between barks, sometimes this can be almost as loud as his barks. Is it possible to train him out that the same as the barking? If so would i just count his growls as a "bark" and treat or not accordingly?

To be perfectly honest Bax's barking doesn't bother me at all but my dad will storm into his room and yell at him to be quiet when he's barking so if i can save my dog a telling off......

EDIT: further note, when he's upset alot of the time he'll just run around half whining half growling occasionally punctuated by a single loud bark. Teaching him to only stop after three barks won't help for this will it?
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
dog_lover48
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Noise

Post by dog_lover48 »

He starts barking when he see's something, even when no one is there? This is a bit confusing. Is he barking at people and dogs or just movement in general? In regards to teaching quiet, try saying quiet and then prolonging the time in which you deliver the treat. Start with 5 seconds and gradually build up the time to the point where you only have to occasionally reward. But it sounds like the barking goes beyond you're typical excitement barking. If he's growling and getting agitated, he is most likely territorial guarding. In this case, you would want to change his emotional response and teach him that there are other ways to act besides barking and growling at people/dogs walking by. In this case, I would recommend hiring a certified R+ trainer.
Shalista
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

sorry, to clarify he barks even when i cant see what hes barking at. we live out in the country and his spying window doesn't face the road anyway. He could be barking at squirrels or birds I guess. I lowered the shade to block his view which i feel bad about because he does like to look out. Unfortunately while its definitely helped this hasn't stopped his barking. I do try to wait longer and longer, he'll wait a solid thirty seconds and then the moment i put the treat in he goes back to whining and growling and then full scale barking.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
Erica
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Location: North Carolina

Re: Noise

Post by Erica »

Could you play white noise or rain noise to help deaden the sounds?
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
dog_lover48
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Noise

Post by dog_lover48 »

How much exercise is Bax getting? Rat Terriors are very energetic and they were bred to hunt rats, therefore they have a high prey drive. He probably see's the squirrels and the birds and just wants to chase them. To help overcome this, make sure he's getting plenty of exercise. I like the way you've taken the initiative fix the problem by using the shade to block his view. Although, if you're leaving the shade closed all the time so he can't look out, then it won't work as effectively as if you only shut it when he barked. For instance: Bax barks at a squirrel, you immediately run over and bring the shade down until he stops barking. Whenever he's quiet, it can go back up. If he starts barking again, repeat the same process. This way, you're teaching him the only way to see out is if he's quiet. If you've tried this and are struggling, is there any way you could provide us with a video of him barking? You can put the video on YouTube as unlisted (this way only people with the link can view it) and then post the link on this forum. This might help us get a better understanding of the situation.

Some general questions:
1.) How often does he rehearse this behavior in a day?
2.) What's the intensity of the barking?
3.) Does his barking elicit some type of reaction from the stimuli (birds, squirrels, ect.)
4.) How much and what type of exercise does he receive in a day?
Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

The frequency and the intensity of the barking doesn't really bother me so much as the duration. He will bark for a very long time once he gets set off and on the floor above us is another dog who will also start barking and they will feed off of each other. I'm trying to create a way so that he'll only bark a few times and then stop.

the shade unfortunately is extremely difficult to raise and lower (old farm house) so lowering it only when he barks really wouldn't be an option. Since this isn't my house I couldn't easily replace the shade either.

Bax gets a roughly 2 mile power walk every day plus a scattering of stop and sniff moseys around the farm. we also do training inside the house several times a day.

The barking doesn't seem to ellicit anythign from anyone except me chain feeding him treats. (BAAAXXXTTERRRR :evil: )
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
dog_lover48
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Noise

Post by dog_lover48 »

Yes, I completely agree that if he's not barking in an aggressive manner then it's fine to let him bark. (As long as it's kept under control)

Here's what I would do: Allow him to bark a few times, then say quiet and reward. (Just like you've been doing) AND THEN AFTER that play his favorite game or do some training in the presence of the distraction. This way you re-directing his behavior onto something that's more productive. You're also not allowing him to practice the behavior of getting the treat and running off again.

The only dilemma with teaching "QUIET" is that it can be unclear to the dog how long you want them to be quiet for. The dog might think he only has to be quiet until he gets a treat, or he only has to be quiet for 10 seconds and then he can bark. Because once you signal him to stop barking, how will he know when he can bark again? An hour later, the next day, never again? It's a very generalized cue. It may be more effective to put the barking on cue as he can only practice it when you tell him he can. But, I'm just thinking out loud here.

Here's an article written by Karen Pyror on how to stop unwanted barking in case your interested. It's very informative http://www.clickertraining.com/how-to-s ... ed-barking

Let me know how it goes and if you have any success :D
Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

interesting article but not super helpful =( i allready que him to watch me, sit, down, or play guessing games and he'll just go right back to it. especially in the case of someone coming to the door we have quite a walk from the driveway to the house and he'll cheerfully bark the whole time regardless of how often i distract him.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
dog_lover48
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Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Noise

Post by dog_lover48 »

It's not about distracting him so he doesn't notice the distractions, rather teaching him to choose YOU over the distraction. The only thing I can think of is increasing your rate of reinforcement after you cued him to stop. If you've built tons a value for what you do want and he still makes a poor choice, then you must create some type of consequence. If you can't block the window, then remove him from the area until he stops barking (may take a while) It may be negative punishment, but he has to understand that there are consequences for his actions. Again, it's hard to get a full understanding of the behavior without actually seeing it. From my understanding, he understands the QUIET command but he starts barking again after receiving a treat.
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Nettle
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Re: Noise

Post by Nettle »

I wonder if it would help with using a longer sequence rather than bark-quiet-treat? For example bark (allow four barks or whatever number you allow) quiet, go to mat, sit on mat, get reward, lie on mat, get reward, cue get off mat, play short game or give a rippy-up toy like a cardboard tube. This way you would avoid the repetition of the bark to get the reward, and you have a longer and pleasant distraction which gets him attention and releases the same feelgood hormones that barking does.

Try it and let us know. :) Obviously you will have to plan ahead and have rippy-up items hidden above terrier-finding-level.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

oooo nettle, i like that idea! it would allow us to practice going to the 'mat' to. (he's supposed to go there every time someone comes into my room to avoid the inevitable jumping up) i have quite the stash of paper towel tubes built up from all the peeing to so that wont be a problem :?
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

Bax has picked up the concept of 3 barks, then mat and down, super well. He even did it on his own with no prompting from me once. (I think he's smarter then i give him credit for)

Since decreasing duration of barking is going so well i was wondering if you had any advice on decreasing the frequency of barking? He won't even be standing near a window and he'll just go off. My dad thinks he's hearing something and for once i agree with him. There was a thump upstairs from my mom and that was enough to get him going.

Once again, I'm fine with his barking, I don't think it's excessive or an unhealthy amount but he'll get told off by other members of the house for even a single bark and I'd like to decrease any stress he may have from that.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
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Nettle
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Re: Noise

Post by Nettle »

In all justice, you would be unreasonable to try and stop your dog from barking at sudden noises. But by decreasing the number of barks in each bark session, and by your success with your mat training :D well done both of you bark-mat-reward can now be proofed in every family room. Bax could well progress to the stage where he 'mats' himself automatically when he needs to bark. Of course that does mean either getting a few more mats or bringing his mat with you when you are in the family parts of the home.

Terriers are super-smart. Think how much Bax has taught you already.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Shalista
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

That's very hopeful, thanks!

and yeah, bax has taught me way more then I've taught him :lol:
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
Shalista
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 pm

Re: Noise

Post by Shalista »

I'm trying to be more aware of what upsets bax when and how he reacts to it and i'm coming to the conclusion that its rooted in his general fear. he treats every little sound like it's the end of the world. he was on my lap when something set him off and i just sat and pet him and kind of loosly prevented him from jumping off. (if he really pushed i woulda let him, he did eventually jump off) and he was like spazming. his muscles were rock hard, he had a ridge all down his back of fur and he was just growling. this is consistent with how he greets people at the door (charge them with a ridge down his back growling and barking). ive also noticed that most of the time its not really barking, just growling interspersed with low whines, lots of running around and pacing.

so i think im coming at this all wrong. i need to not stop him from BARKING but make him feel secure enough he doesn't feel the need to. am i barking up the wrong tree here? thoughts on helping him feel more safe?
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13
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