Thoughts on Off-Leash Walking

[belle989]

Hi everyone,

This is the first time I'm posting here, so thank you in advance for any thoughts and/or suggestions on my off-leash walking question.

To give you a little background on myself and my husband, we have had 2 dogs prior to our current dog. So, we have had a decent amount of experience with positive training and dog behavior. I have read a lot of posts on here and we've read a ton of books. I also have my MA in Clinical Psychology, so I don't necessarily require explanations of principles, terms, theories, etc., but, of course, appreciate all thoughts and opinions. I know many of you have loads more experience with dogs.

My question is about off-leash walking. When I let my dog off leash, he starts walking ahead of me and walks a lot faster. He also sniffs a lot more, but not in an obsessive manner. Also, he generally walks straight- meaning he pretty much stays on the road, but behaves as though he's following a scent trail. When he gets too far ahead of me for me to be comfortable, I make the "ahhh" sound and he actually responds to that pretty well. Just out of habit, I make the sound two or three times and, like I said, it gets his attention and he will stop, turn around, and walk back to me. He'll walk by my side for around 10-15 seconds then he starts walking ahead of me again. The cycle pretty much repeats itself. However, sometimes, he might just walk back a little bit, but not all the way back to me. On the other hand, especially if it's me and my husband, sometimes he will come back and walk by our sides for a couple minutes. When he walks by me off-leash, I provide positive reinforcement. In my opinion, the more I provide, the longer he stays by my side. But of course, that only "holds" him for so long.

So, what I'm curious about, is how you handle off-leash walking (This is around a neighborhood, but it is a rural one). Also, I only do this after we have been leash walking successfully and, for now, typically only around 5-10 minutes. Do you think it is okay that he walks ahead of us/me? Or, do you think that he should continue to walk by my/our side(s)? A lot of reading I've done suggests that a dog should always walk by your side, so when it comes to this, I feel a little torn on how to handle it. For what it's worth, I do think I could (eventually) get him to walk by my side off-leash.

FYI: Sometimes, I put a regular clip on leash on him and let him walk "freely". He's corrected if he pulls me at all and responds very well to that. Mostly, because he doesn't like the pulling sensation, in my opinion. He earns this though after walking well by my side on the slip leash. When I let him do this, he also walks ahead of me- as far as he can get on the leash without pulling. He sniffs a lot, but basically does the same thing when off-leash: keeps walking straight like he's following a scent. He stays on our path and ignores people. He's more interested in sniffing. Once the time is over, I put him back on the slip leash and he walks perfectly by my side. I wanted to add this because it shows how well he can adapt to different types of walks.

A little background on my dog, Zen.
-lived with us around 2.5 months
-approx. 5 yrs. old
-very low energy/couch potato
-back of the line dog: very submissive & never appears to want to be in charge
-can take or leave people
-bonding with him is essential to him following any commands, rules, etc.: he's sensitive and will not follow any commands, rules, etc. for a day or two if there is an incident where he feels we were too harsh- he simply shuts down (what I mean by "too harsh" is raising our voice a little or using any sort of punishment like taking something away). We have learned that we need to give commands in a low, soft speaking tone. Our previous dog was working dog high energy and we needed to give commands in a more authoritative tone- not mean or harsh, but firm. This dog, Zen, is too sensitive for that tone.
-does not like typical training, like training sessions
-doesn't like to perform tricks, but does follow basic household rules (sit before going outside, sit and wait to be fed until given the okay, etc.)
-won't chase a ball or engage in any games
-doesn't like to chew on things, not even tasty things
-walks, food, petting, car rides are his preferred rewards; however, he's not extremely motivated by anything- those are just the only things that have ANY value
-has excellent manners: never tries to take food, walks away while you're eating, gets out of your way if you're walking by, sits by you when he wants pet but is never pushy about it (if you don't pet him, he'll just go back to his bed)
-walks very well on a leash- we use a slip leash- he's very sensitive to corrections on the leash
-can be skittish, especially on walks: jumps out of the way if a car goes by, startled by loud noises, wants to walk away quickly if a dog barks at him- things like this are his only weakness on walks and the only time he will ever pull. He doesn't necessarily pull every time though, but is still startled/anxious by all of it
-was rarely walked by previous owners
-history of fear/anxiety around men
-alarm barks when my husband comes home (perhaps another question coming soon)
-doesn't like baths
-smacks his licks, gulps in an almost obsessive manner- we say "enough" to help him stop & it works for the time being.
-doesn't mind paws being touched or anything else
-prefers to lay on his bed when in the house
-doesn't follow me around the house
-hates being left outside after he's gone to the bathroom: the fastest he ever moves is when he comes back inside and practically runs back to his bed

Sorry this is so long, but I'll probably post other questions too, so I thought it would be best to include a lot of information in my initial post so next time I can post a shorter question.

To repeat my question, what is your opinion on where a dog should be walking when off-leash? Do you think it's okay for my dog to walk ahead and sniff freely or should he continue walking by my side? We are walking in a neighborhood that is rural and very small, but houses are still close together. The off-leash walking is usually at night so there's rarely any person or dog out. I don't do it in the daytime when there are kids and other people walking dogs. I know that if I was out on a big stretch of land, like a field, then he could definitely run around and sniff, but I feel this kind of walking we're doing is a little different because it's still our walk, but with a little earned freedom. Although, if you're walking on a trail off-leash, I would still wonder how other people handle it- we might go on some trails soon so I wouldn't be sure if I wanted him by my side or not when he's off-leash.

Thanks again!

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. It sounds like your dog is doing well while walking off-leash in a quiet environment. For walking I'd prefer to have your dog in a comfortable harness, with or without a lead attached to the harness. Rather than correcting/jerking the dog for behaviour you don't like, positively reinforce (Positive Reinforcement) behaviour you do like (with rewards/treats/toys/play/praise/etc.) There's a growing pool of information 'out there' (including the Positively website and forum) about Positive Reinforcement training, and principles.

From your question/s, I gather walking your dog off-leash on trails will be happening in the near future. Excursions to sniff and explore the environment is a good thing, and should be allowed and encouraged if it's safe. Is it an open field or a narrow trail/corridor? Is it legal? Are there fences or other obstacles? Can you see your dog at all times, or not? Could you and/or your dog encounter (strange) people and/or dogs on the trail? If so, is there ample (think many many metres seperation) safe room to pass or overtake or be overtaken? Would you safely encounter wildlife?

I'd suggest sharpen up the dog's recall with Positive Reinforcement, especially if it's likely to wander or harass wildlife. Walking in a new area can be arousing, scary, stressful.

Cheers and good luck . PS. What kind of dog do you have? Is it a greyhound? If so, more care/training is needed before off-leash on trails could be considered.

[Nettle]

Specifically in answer to your question, for my dogs, offlead is their chance to explore, sniff, enjoy their environment, and on-lead is for walking on a slack lead by my side. As your dog comes back when you tell him, I see no reason to worry about him walking ahead. I like them ahead because then I can see where they are, what they are doing, what they are about to do, what is coming towards them that I need to do something about. My dogs are trained to go only a certain distance ahead unless given a specific command that tells them they may range out. We exercise on trails.

It would be interesting to know your dog's breed/mix, which would go a long way to explain his behaviour at home. Also you have not had him for very long at all, and he still has much baggage to unpack. You may be expecting too much of him, and you may be wanting him to do things he doesn't like doing (eg tricks).

Can you tell us more about his typical day and especially those parts of it that he really likes best?

[JudyN]

PS. What kind of dog do you have? Is it a greyhound?

I spotted the sighthound traits too, MBF

I'm not sure why you are concerned about your dog's position relative to you when offlead. Is it safety, so you have more control over him, or do you feel that his position will have some influence on his relationship with you? There is an old idea that if you let your dog go ahead of you he won't recognise you as 'leader', but this is based on 'pack theory' which has been shown to be completely wrong. Similarly, there is no point making your dog sitting before being let out or fed, unless it serves the purpose of stopping him running out through an open door before you've got his lead on, or diving into his food bowl before it hits the ground.

I prefer to let my dog have as much freedom as possible off lead, but I'm lucky as he naturally won't stray far from me. It's his time, so I'll often hang around if there's a smell that needs thorough investigation.

You also mention using corrections quite a lot, which isn't recommended in positive training. There is a thread here on loose leash walking which should give some ideas on how to drop the corrections. As raising your voice or taking something away can affect his behaviour for a day or two, he is clearly a very sensitive dog who needs to increase his confidence. He may well have an abusive background (even if the 'abuse' was something like being shouted at, or net being let back in the house after toileting).

[Ari_RR]

Yeah, ought to be a sighthound

My 2 cents on off leash walking - off leash walking is free for the dog to move around as he pleases, provided that he doesn't wonder too far away and has a good recall.

But then it's also a question of where it is appropriate for the dog to be off leash.... I would not have mine off leash in populated areas (people, dogs, children, etc)

[belle989]

I appreciate everyone has their own opinions, but for this post, I really just wanted people's thoughts on the off-leash walking. He walks nearly perfect when on a leash so why would I change anything? I rarely have to give a correction on the leash so if this works then why change it? He simply needs time and exposure to decrease his sensitivity to things that make noise. Walks are his favorite and is excited and happy every time. It is a very positive experience.
I really wanted some feedback on the off-leash question, but I feel, instead, everyone provided unsolicited opinions. I was hoping this was a place that people could freely, without judgment, ask questions. To clarify, I most certainly do use positive reinforcement. As I have my MA in Clinical Psychology, this comes very naturally to me and I know how successful it is with human behavior and dog behavior.
I think some of you missed that he is 5 years old and I have only had him for 2.5 months. Him sitting before eating was something he was trained on previously and has always done here, so, again, why confuse him? During adjustment periods, it is helpful to try and keep some things familiar instead of shaking his whole world. So yes, I continue to have him sit while I put his food in a bowl. He's comfortable with this. And yes, I do have him sit and wait to be told he can go out the door because we live in a neighborhood with close houses, lots of kids, and lots of dogs. This is a safety issue as I do not want him running out the door when it opens. Additionally, this is something he has always done here because his previous owners trained him to do this. So, for those of you that think I'm asking too much of him too soon, this is definitely not true. Most of his good behavior is pure luck on our part. It's how he's always behaved since living here.
A lot of the things I listed about him were things that I learned from his previous owners. The tricks, for example, are something I learned from his previous owners. I haven't tried anything like that with him, but they had him for 5 years so they know him better. Is it possible the not liking tricks was because of their training methods? Yes, I understand that. I didn't think everyone I put was going to be so scrutinized. I think it's hard for any of you to know the full picture because I can't write it all here without taking up way too much of this forum.
As a therapist, I understand that providing excess knowledge makes people feel powerful and important. However, it is a critical fault for people to judge others so quickly and criticize their every action. I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on what type of leash I should be using. I'm not really sure I want to provide any of you more information about me or my dog, if this is the welcome I receive.
It sounds like most of you are asking way too much. Asking people to follow everything you do exactly. Positive reinforcement mostly relies on providing positivity, so why is it so many of you don't provide that same positivity to us humans?

[Erica]

Tone is difficult to convey through text alone - I assure you nobody here was being rude or judgemental! This is a pretty amicable community, so it's fairly safe to assume that a post is friendly. Knowing the people posting, I did not get any inkling of disdain from their posts.

With many behaviors, it's not just the immediate situation that needs to be considered - the way the dog is treated throughout the day may affect his behavior during a five-minute stretch at night, as does age, gender, breed, health status, etc... It's habit to ask for this information because it does impact the single issue that's the topic of discussion - not just in your case but in most of the situations we're asked to help with. We're trying to get as full a picture as we can, because that helps us understand and offer the most correct and helpful advice. What's right for one dog is a terrible idea for another - for example, my dog is happy to be guided out of the way with a hand on his neck, but for another dog this would be terrifying. While we can't know the full picture without being there, it really does help to get as much information as we can.

This article should help explain why many of us recommend harnesses over collars. In short, collars of any sort have a higher risk of injury; even small tugs build up over time and can cause injury or disease in the dog. Slip leads/choke collars are the most likely to injure. It sounds like your dog doesn't pull on the leash, which is good when you're using a collar, but if a loud noise startles him he could panic and jerk away; or maybe he's about to step on a venomous snake and there's no time for "Delta, come here!" but you have to pull him quickly away instead (yes, this has happened to me - I don't walk at twilight during the summer anymore!). It is your choice, but I wanted to explain why this suggestion was offered.

As for off-leash time - personally, I don't see the point of the dog being off-leash if he's always asked to stay in leash-range anyways. When I walk my pup off-leash, he's allowed to range about 50 feet away from me; if he gets out of this range I call him back. He tends to walk ahead of me or off to the side of the trail. If you're unsure about your dog's recall at first in a new place (dogs don't generalize what they learn in one place to every other place without a bit of practice; I use a long line in new off-leash areas even though Delta's recall is pretty dang good), I'd suggest getting a long line. Because of the momentum a dog can build up on these, though, I really strongly suggest using them only with a harness. The potential for injury with a collar or headcollar is pretty high on a long line.

[JudyN]

I've drafted and rejected several replies - nothing said here is judgemental, it is giving information and suggestions based on what you tell us and what that leads us to assume, and asking for clarification. We have the well-being of the dog at heart and will suggest anything that may help that. Sure, we may be teaching granny how to suck eggs or you may simply disagree but I'd rather risk saying something possibly helpful that you already know than not say it.

So... to help with walking off leash, what we really need to know is what do you want him to do, and why? Why are you concerned with whether he is in front, alongside, or behind you? If it's a question of keeping him safe, the answer would very much depend on the environment and on his recall.

[emmabeth]

Post moved to Advice section at the posters request.

I'd just like to comment on the 'why change it' thing..

Combining correction or, punishment, with reward, is actually not as effective as you may think - if your dog is thinking, even mildly, about how to avoid punishment, then he is not in a position to be thinking about how to achieve reward. To be actively seeking reward you have to be willing to try things out - to avoid punishment you have to be really unwilling to try things out.

As someone else said, it might seem like this isn't causing a problem and maybe you are right, but everything we do, everything your dog experiences, has an effect on everything else - all these things do not happen in isolation, they are related.

Back to your original question.

My dogs do not go off lead on the streets - they only go off lead in open spaces, fields, public footpaths in rural areas, no where that there is access to traffic really.

Off lead they are free to do what they want, whether thats go ahead, or lag behind, run about, sniff etc - I recall them regularly for reward and try to do so before they get more than a certain distance away so that it is now their habit to check in at that distance (I think if you swap your 'ah ah' correction for a positive interruptor you may find he will start to do this). I also chuck in games and short training sessions at random intervals so they never really know for sure whats happening, which makes me more interesting than the environment.

They generally DO walk ahead of me, thats purely because they walk faster than I do, and they tend to have their heads down, not following a particular trail but just taking in the scents around them which will change on a daily basis.

[elisa]

Answer to original question:
Off leash to me means the dog can be "wherever" - as in within a certain distance ahead or behind or to the side.

Of course it all depends on the place, but we often walk next to fields or on forest trails - on fields I prefer her not to go in the woods to the side because of possible wildlife and for the same reason I prefer her to stay on the trail or near it in the woods.

Additionally we have cues like "wait" and of course "come here" and then one I find very handy on trails is "I'll walk first". Also of course "let's go" and "this way", and hand signals for choosing the right trail ahead.

We only go off lead on the trails or fields when the sun is up and mostly never in the neighbourhood due to safety. (On lead my pup also walks ahead as long as she doesn't pull. Sniffing is good for the brain cells. Our walks are very stop-and-go, but then we mostly aren't really going anywhere but the long way back home. )

[Nettle]

Mine never go off-leash anywhere there is the possibility of traffic or other risk to them. That isn't what you asked either, OP, but many people read these questions, and one has to clarify certain points.