Marking in public

[Shalista]

Hi, (sorry for the two threads in a row) I have a 1.5yr old rat terrier named Bax that I got in September. He was neutered when he was about 8 months old. We had a rough start potty training. My sister has a 3ish year old Chihuahua that she never potty trained and the smell of his urine saturated the carpet in our living room. (disgusting.) When I got Bax he was surprisingly good about potty training. he never pottied in the house... except in the living room. Months after I got Bax we tore the carpet out and refinished the floor and he is now 1 month accident free. (yay!)

My problem is this. I'm trying to take Bax out to see people and socialize but he potties in stores. Alot. He went poo twice and peed three times in the garden store the other day in the space of thirty minutes or less. AFTER he had all ready gone both outside the store. He also marks bushes, telephone poles, and building, (just a casual leg **** and tiny little bit of pee).

I talked to my trainer and she thinks it's marking, she also says there's no way to train him out of this. Is she right? She recommended that I carry him when I take him out and that's fine but he's a bit bulky(13lbs) and i need both hands to carry him.

He has his CGC and I'd someday like for him to be a therapy dog but I'm not sure that's possible if he's peeing and pooping his way down the hospital hallways.

[Erica]

It's not possible (or really humane) to teach a dog to never mark, but here's how I taught my dog that "on by" means "don't pee on that." I do have to keep a close eye on him in pet stores, where other dogs have peed before, but he's fine in houses. We're hoping to do therapy work too so if he does try to mark somewhere he's not supposed to, I can use "on by" to communicate he's not supposed to do that. Let me know if any of this is confusing!

First I got his self-control working with exercises like It’s Yer Choice (link), working on Stay, and Drop the toy.

Once he had decent self-control in general, I used Kikopup’s style of teaching Leave It (link), which incorporates moving past the object of attention (though my brain separates a moving leave it from a stationary one, so I have two leave it cues - “leave” for stationary leave its and “on by” for moving ones). I worked on this with not only food distractions but with toys and crumpled paper and bird feathers etc so he generalized “on by” to mean “I know there’s something interesting, but keep moving and I’ll give you a reward.”

Once he was good at on-by in training sessions, I started using it out and about, first on clumps of leaves in the road, then roadkill, then people we were passing. At the end of walks, when he had nothing left to mark with, I started saying “on by” when he was setting up to lift his leg. If he didn’t immediately break off and keep moving, I’d start making silly noises - kissy noises, “yoohoo!”, whistles - until he did walk on, and then obviously I rewarded him.

As he got better, I started using the cue when he was going to mark in the middle of walks, then towards the beginning - NOT every time, marking is a natural and acceptable behavior in certain circumstances (outside, mostly) - but usually when he was setting up to mark on things like garden flowers, traffic cones, or anywhere else that might be considered rude to pee on.

At first I rewarded him heavily with his favorite things, before tapering it off to a normal dog treat, and then only rewarding intermittently and for the more difficult ones- like when he already has his leg lifted when I cue him. Often, his reward is my finding a nearby appropriate pee spot and cuing him to sniff there.

This took a few months overall to teach. Take it slow and you'll see faster progress than if you rush!

[Nettle]

As well as that, think about your dog the whole time you are in a place you don't want him to potty. You'll see they give a lot of warning. So practice going into stores, walk round, walk out. Don't be distracted by anything. Keep him on a short lead and watch him the whole time. It soon becomes second nature.

[Shalista]

I've worked alot with doing training similar to the Yer Choice stuff and love how its helped in other areas for him. Good to know it might cross over into this area to! His leave it could use some work though so I know what we'll be practicing!

one last question, when he starts to sniff around and maybe lift a leg should I immediately take him outside to potty? Because he doesn't REALLY need to go right? is a distraction and move on sufficient?

[Nettle]

When he gives any indication he is about to mark inappropriately, don't delay, take him outside fast as you can, offer him a more suitable mark place and attach a word to it e.g. 'mark'. When he is outside any old time or on a walk and goes to mark, reinforce your word by saying 'mark' but don't reward otherwise.

Thing is, he gets excited in these places and you know what excitement does to bladder and bowels! So he is already primed to squirt when you take him outdoors, and although you think he doesn't need to - he does!

being railroaded outside every time is as inconvenient for him as for you, and he should eventually put it together where he does and doesn't mark. For your part, don't wait until the leg goes up - soon as that sideways sniff starts, out you go.

[Shalista]

Thanks everyone, I cant wait to take him out and practice!

I do however have an unrelated question. (I'd put it in it's own thread but I've made 2 in as many days and I'd feel guilty. Bax is my first dog and while my parents always had dogs when i was a kid they went the whole "choke collars and alpha rolls" route so I'm kind of breaking the mold here. I love doing positive training (Bax does to) but i feel a bit lost sometimes.)

Bax is great with dogs. When he's home or at training he's always the first to initiate contact, the first to try to play. Recently (thanks to training like Yer Choice) he's gotten good at loose leash walking so I feel comfortable taking him out and about more. I have since realized that while Bax LOVES other dogs, he's very nervous and insecure. Today I had a terrifying moment when I encountered an off leash dog. the owner was out of sight. This HUGE black pit bull charged Bax. he came out of nowhere with this great big prong collar on and charged us. the good news? he honestly was very friendly. The bad news? Bax didn't care. Bax snarled at the dog when the dog got close and then did this little snapping thing as they turned in circles. Bax's ears were down and his tail was tucked and he was crouching. three times the owner (still out of sight) recalled the dog and each time it would come right back. While Bax was snarling and snapping I didn't get the sense that there was about to be a fight. The dog was big and goofy and seemed content to sniff but this was obviously very traumatizing for Bax. What SHOULD I have done? I basically just stood there and talked to Bax in a calming voice. I've heard you should pick your dog up but I didn't want to scare Bax more by swooping down from above while he's so locked on to the other dog. I didn't want to drag him away because the other dog didn't seem mean and i was hopeful that they both would calm down and have a good interaction.
Thoughts?

[JudyN]

I'd put it in it's own thread but I've made 2 in as many days and I'd feel guilty.

I'd start as many threads as you have unrelated questions, don't feel guilty! Remember that if you're asking the question, there will be loads of other people who may have the same problem but don't ask, who may well learn from the replies you get

What I would do in that situation is get yourself in between Bax and the other dog, look square on to the other dog, point back where he came from, and shout 'GIT!', or expletive of choice. Even if the other dog is friendly, your dog shouldn't have to tolerate this - and as a general rule, people shouldn't let their dogs go up to any on-lead dog without confirming with the owner that he's OK with this (though most seem unaware of this etiquette). Hopefully, the other dog will run off back to his owner (who will probably think you are nasty and unfriendly, but hey), and Bax will realise that you will be his protector so he doesn't have to deal with these situations.

[Shalista]

On topic with the marking I just felt like an update was in order! Today I took Bax into the country store and he didn't mark once. I confess I did it with some speed so he wouldn't be tempted but I wasn't quite running so I still count it as a win. I had never noticed that he did the sideways sniff before but when he did it in the store I told him to "come on" (his que to stop sniffing and keep walking when we're on a walk) and he just came right along when he did that sideways sniff. So victory! not a single mark in the store he made so many messes in!

(he also had a huge victory in that he let two separate people pet him, and not just a glancing pat, like a full on neck scrunchee. so yay for starting to like people to!!)