Unresponsive! Advice needed.

[spooky]

Hello dog lovers. As you can see I'm new here but been browsing through forum a while. I did read some threads that deals with unresponsive dogs but did not find anything to help myself and to improve relationship with my dog.
I have male dog named Kali and he is 14 months old. He's half labrador and half (i believe) bigl.

So I will begin with daily routine:
6:30 am we go for walk and to burn energy accumulated by night so that he is stimulated physical as he must be alone for 7 hours because I'm at work. Then I give him food (first meal) and sometimes play with him until 7:30 am.
On every walk I do training with him. At 3 pm we go out just for WC. Then it is time for second meal. For half hour to 1 hour I leave him alone but he is trying to get my attention all the time. Where I go, he goes. I try not to give him attention all the time but I see that he won't play by himself. If I'm not playing he lays down and wait for me to play or he's sleeping. Then I play with him for 30 minutes, sometimes more... At 5 pm we go out and this is the time when we spend 1+ hour outside. After that we came inside and then starts quiet time and he usually sleeps by my side. At 10 pm its WC time again. He is inside dog because I don't have fenced yard and if I did have it is to small to do anything really.

So this is basically every day routine, from monday to friday. On weekend I spend much more time with him as weekends is only time when I can do it more...

When he was 2 months old i adopted him from shelter. Started to train him inside and he picked up everything very quickly. But outside (as I was not prepared) I let him play with every dog, let him off leash, used leash that stretch and other beginners mistakes. When I finally "woke up" it was (in my opinion) to late and damage has been done. At this point I researched every way in positive reinforcement... He was pulling on leash, jumping on every human and dog, gets very excited and unresponsive. I had to do something so I started (6 months ago) with paying attention to me and not pulling on leash. It seems to work and I managed to correct only pulling problems (lower it). I got long leash to teach him to come, sit, stay when outside. He learned that.

I want let him off leash so he can play with other dogs, and with me, and run and do dog stuff... But I can't. He ignores me completely, does not want to come. Eats every **** that he finds...

What am I doing wrong? Is it problem in me? I'm putting so much effort in this and lots of energy and now after almost 6 months I see non improvement nor I've become his center and best thing ever. He will rather go to complete stranger on whistle than to me... What should I do? Where to start? I tried so much different ways. Sometimes he doesn't even want treat whatever it is.

Today i let him off leash and instead spending quality time on walk and fun I spent 30 minutes trying to catch him while he runs away from me when I come 1 meter close.

[spooky]

No one? I know that this is alot of text...

[delladooo]

I'm not an expert but I have a dog who will always find other dogs more interesting and rewards than me.

Have you tried keeping the long line on him and letting him play? This is generally what we do at the minute and it gives you more chance to catch him. You can also try continual rewards for attention on you when he sees another dog; if he sees another dog and looks at you, reward. Repeat every time he looks at you and if you get extended eye contact give continuous treats.

It is very slow going but we've just about getting to a point where I have a dog who will check in with me whilst he's playing now. Good luck!

[spooky]

Thanks for your reply.

I'm already doing what you've said. Everything was ok when I started to do that to keep him focused. But few days ago everything fall apart. Like I was never doing anything. He doesn't want treats or any kind of prais. He just ignores me completely. When I'm trying to get his attention he just looks away, I stand in front of him, he looks the other way and so on. Can't get anything from him. Do not know where everything fall apart.

[delladooo]

Not exactly, there are people on here who will be along at some point who are more likely to know.

But, dogs do tend to take steps backwards and have times where they completely ignore you, when this happens to us I tend to keep more distance between us and other dogs and keep trying. On really bad days I try to avoid dogs completely but know this isn't always possible

[elisa]

I'm also not an expert but I do have a few suggestions.

Feeding times. Could you give his second meal only after your afternoon walk. That way he will be more hungry and perhaps more interested in getting treats. I assume this longer walk is where you see most the problems.

Partly it may just be a teenager thing so I would keep working with the long line. You worrying that he doesn't get to do enough dog stuff to me seems unnecessary - if he really gets all the walks and playing and training every day then to me that sounds like a lot of dog stuff. So don't stress about it. Sounds like he is a very lucky dog.

I would start from scratch with the recall if he likes playing "catch me if you can". Maybe even change the cue or if he likes other peoples whistles then get your own. And use super high value treats or the best toy ever. Sometimes the best reward for coming is also to get to go off again so make sure you don't always clip the lead and become boring afterwards. But safety is important so use the long line - you can also just let it trail so in case of emergency you can just step on it if it is long enough. And don't forget to be crazy and silly with him, not caring what other people think, as that is how you become more interesting.

He's still a teenager so just keep working on it and you may find he becomes wiser also with age.

[spooky]

Thanks elisa.

You wrote most logic text

I will continue with what i'm doing and stay consistant.

[spooky]

Hy.

What can I do?

Backstory: Yesterday I went on hiking with my dog. Everything was fine until... He gets all crazy and unresponsive to any cue. He runs away from me, eating bunch of crap, jumping in mud, getting in water, then on dusty field, then again in water, then roll himself in crap, then eat it again, then run like crazy away from me.................. It took me 1 hour to catch him and get him home. I was calm all the time and I did not yel at him nor punish him when I eventualy cathe him. I was so miserable because all the training obidience obviously failed. I believe all the training is to avoid situations like this... I feel like crap today because I don't know how to deal when this kind of thing happens. Since I didn't punish him (verbal or physical), what can i do when this happens? Should i punish him? And if yes, how?

Please help.

[Nettle]

Never ever punish. Dogs don't understand punishment - all they know is that you have just become nasty and so they don't feel safe around you. So well done for not punishing and staying calm.

I'm sorry you feel bad about the walk. So far as your dog is concerned it was about the best walk ever - he got to do a lot of normal fun dog things. No wonder he didn't want to come back and have you put an end to his fun. It was like letting you loose in a store with someone else's credit card. So chill - he didn't do this to annoy you. He is a teenage dog and has not yet learned to be co-operative.

What to do? Manage until you can trust your training. If you don't want him to do those things, keeping him on a lead stops him doing them. It is then your job to allow him to do fun things that you don't mind while on the lead - sniffing and marking, for instance. While he is on a long line, you can train his recall, using lots of yummy rewards and making sure you don't bore him with too much repetition. You can do all sorts of nice things while he is on the lead and long line. I'll stop here because I don't want to overwhelm you. You have a normal dog at a difficult age, and you can see your training together as the best fun rather than a mouldy chore.

Stay with us and we'll help. Sounds like your recall is the most urgent task - would you like some books recommended?

[spooky]

Thanks for reply.

Yes, i would love to have some books. Since I'm deep into dog training few more books won't hurt me

I have long line but clearly I do not know how to properly use it. And yes, you got it right, recall is what I need to re-teach. Sometimes I feel like I'll never be able to put him off-leash to play with other dogs and that makes me sad since I train my dog every day for past 6 months, and then this happens.

[Nettle]

"Total Recall" by Pippa Mattinson is well thought of.

Don't forget your dog is still very juvenile. If he is an early neuter, this delays his progress also. But in any case - he is still very young.

Dogs don't do the things that annoy us in order to annoy us - they do them because to the dog it seems the best course of action at the time.

He does not need to play with other dogs. When dogs 'play' it is often anything but benign - it is often a contest of strength/weakness. So instead of wishing he could play with other dogs, teach him to do things with you. Following scent, finding hidden toys and balls, anything similar that you can do together. Have you read our pinned 'Exercise the Mind'? Some good ideas there. The more fun things you do with your dog, the more he will bond with you. You do not want him to find other dogs more fun than you are.

[spooky]

Thanks for advice. I will read section you've mentioned.
I get it now. I was going in wrong direction tought that dog needs spend time with other dogs.
I'll post our progress in this thread.

[spooky]

I'm confused about training duration outside. Normaly we are on walk about 1 hour. I know that 10-15 minutes is max for training so that dog doesn't get bored but what to do after that time? Should I let him sniff (he mostly do that) and that never ends. So I have to give him cue to go futher and it seems that I annoy him... I tried playing all sorts of games with him but it seems that he doesn't like it. Example: I'm throwing him ball, he runs, catches ball, drops it and starts to sniff again. And thats with any kind of game... No mather what game we are playing he just want to do things by himself. And when is time to go futher I have to drag him for few steps until he realy starts to go.

What you do with your dog when you're outside for 1 hour or more? And how to motivate dog to play with me?

I know that I'm boring everyone on this forum but I'm confused.

Thanks!

[Nettle]

It's his walk, and if sniffing is his pleasure, then let him sniff. But don't stand there bored while he sniffs - he will try to include you in what he finds, so listen to him He will say: Hey! Sniff this - isn't it great? and look up to catch your eye. Yes, you can say, it seems a good scent. (You don't have to talk out loud, just catch his eye when he catches yours and smile, which will soften your body language). Some scents have to be sniffed from this direction and then that one. Some need to be peed on. Some need to be peed on twice. Some need to be followed. Some are sniffed and then left. Some he will sniff and then look at you wide-eyed WOW. The more you learn to read what your dog is scenting, the more you become a team. Scent work is tiring and pleasurable for dogs. Some of them like it much better than playing ball or other games. He's a dog and will prefer to do dog things. If you are a willing pupil, he will teach you stuff about the world that you never knew. He will involve you. You will become his best friend.

Some dogs love to play ball and fetch. Yours has told you he isn't one of them.

[elisa]

What do I do with my dog outside? - All kinds of stuff.
-I once got bored with our normal outings so I decided to encourage jumping on boulders. Now I can ask her to jump on one whenever we run across one. It's just fun.
-Just now I am getting a bit bored again so I've decided to search out the local geocaches. At least it takes me off the same paths.
-My pup loves digging so I let her dig. Now that the snow is gone she's again working on her summer hole on a nearby lake shore. She digs - I cover it up. And repeat.
-Currently I have a "project" making water drain from the paths to the lake better so I work on my little ditches while the dog does whatever. We check up on each other all the time of course.
-Right now with spring Ansa also seems to be more into sniffing than playing with her ball. So I let her find the rabbit droppings and whatever else. Like today the ball was just not interesting and she would chase but drop it.
-If I think she is doing too much "prey search sniffing" I try to have her search out treats instead. "Where's the treat?" (and toss one forward) is also good for getting her to move on sometimes.

-If I do training on a walk it is more like a couple of small things here and there - like I see an opportunity to do an agility move somewhere and we may do a couple of those. Then we keep walking and maybe do something else later.

I guess what we do mostly is explore the area around us. Granted I'm lucky to live right next to some woods.

It's good that you are asking these questions! You just have to figure out what kind of walks you would both enjoy without thinking about what "normal dog owners" do with their dogs.