I own a 16 week Havanese/Maltese male puppy. We are having potty training issues.
We started with crate training the moment we got him at 8 weeks. We took him outside to toilet.(P.S. He hates the crate!!) I didn't put him on a leash. I just let him go wherever and then tried urine spray to get him to go in one area. He wouldn't go in that area because he hates to be watched. Then moved him to the garage when the weather got really cold. My 2.5 year old insists on going with us and it just became a hassle to get her in a coat, hat, gloves, boots too. I let him go wherever without a potty pad because he shreds them.
We cleared out our laundry room and put his crate in there and put up a gate in the doorway. I thought maybe if we started at square one according to Victoria's potty training video. I tried putting potty pads all over so we can eventually get him to use one pad. But like I said he shredded them. I take him out after he is in the crate, playing, training, after drinking water, or gets hyper like we have company over. Even when I can supervise him he ends up having accidents.
He just doesn't get that he is to toilet in the garage. He lets us know when he is in his room but He doesn't let us know when he is out of there. He sniffs tons looking for crumbs so it's hard to know if he neesd to go. Sometimes he won't poop outside and so the minute we let him in he poops on the floor.
Desperately need potty training help!!
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Can you give us a run through of his typical daily routine - tell us where he sleeps (ie, where that is in the house), how often he eats, when that is, when he gets taken outside, how long for - really give us a super clear picture of what it is like to be your dog on a normal day.
Can you also run us through how you crate trained him, because a crate trained dog should not hate their crate, they should love it. A dog that hates his crate is not crate trained!
Can you also run us through how you crate trained him, because a crate trained dog should not hate their crate, they should love it. A dog that hates his crate is not crate trained!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
He sleeps in his crate which is located in the laundry room. His crate has a doggy bed and we keep the crate door is opened. The laundry room is gated and its right off the kitchen. Its an open floor plan so you can see most of the kitchen but not the laundry room from the living room. He wakes up at 6:30 am. I take him to our garage to toilet. Usually he will urine right away but its hit or miss with pooping. I wait for 5 minutes and then I let him in. I don't have him on an eating schedule and instead open feed. I bring him to our bed until 7. Then I get my son up and go to the kitchen. I take him out to potty. I gate off the kitchen entry so he can be around me while I make breakfast. Then at 7:45 I bring him into our bathroom and shut the door as I shower and dressed to leave at 8 to get to work. I take him out to toilet again. Our sitter comes. We take down the gate in the kitchen and put it back on the laundry room. If he has toileted then she lets him go where ever she and my daughter go. She puts him into the laundry room if he has't gone toilet. I told her to take him out after he plays or eats. He will nap a couple hours. When until get home at 3 pm he wants out. I take him to toilet in the garage for 5 minutes. He will urinate but won't poop. The moment he gets inside will poop. I play with him inside for a while or do some training for a half hour. He is super clingy so he comes with me as I do chores and I watch him. Sometimes I get distracted and don't see the signs or. Other times I have to pay strict attention so if he leaves the room I can stop him.By the time I promptly get there he will have gone already. I would have to run in order to stop him. He goes to bed at 9 pm. He wakes up once in the night to toilet and he usually does poop and urinate.
How can i tell that he doesn't need to toilet?
In the beginning I would put him in play area in the kitchen when I couldn't supervise him. He hated it! He would just whine and not stop even after 20 minutes. If by luck he did calm down, anytime I walked past the whining would start again. We removed the play area as it took up too much room. He didn't like it anyway. We got a crate instead. I read about how to crate train but what was I to do until he liked the crate? Just let him run around free? So I put him in anyway and tred to crate train but he didn't want anything to do with the crate. After watching Victoria I decided we needed to clear out the laundry room and make it his room. He still hates it most of the time unless he is sleeping or eating. He has toys in there that he really likes outside the room. I put a puppy size Kong in that has some kitty chicken treats into and I'll throw in a Greenie dental bone too.
I am having a hard time balancing his needs and my children. He gets more attention then they do. I have a 2.5 year We can't just stay at home all day. I understand there has to be some changes but there are sometimes multiple family events , errands, etc in a day.
How can i tell that he doesn't need to toilet?
In the beginning I would put him in play area in the kitchen when I couldn't supervise him. He hated it! He would just whine and not stop even after 20 minutes. If by luck he did calm down, anytime I walked past the whining would start again. We removed the play area as it took up too much room. He didn't like it anyway. We got a crate instead. I read about how to crate train but what was I to do until he liked the crate? Just let him run around free? So I put him in anyway and tred to crate train but he didn't want anything to do with the crate. After watching Victoria I decided we needed to clear out the laundry room and make it his room. He still hates it most of the time unless he is sleeping or eating. He has toys in there that he really likes outside the room. I put a puppy size Kong in that has some kitty chicken treats into and I'll throw in a Greenie dental bone too.
I am having a hard time balancing his needs and my children. He gets more attention then they do. I have a 2.5 year We can't just stay at home all day. I understand there has to be some changes but there are sometimes multiple family events , errands, etc in a day.
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Haven't got time to write up a full thing, but I have to say that putting him on a schedule for feeding will greatly help! If he eats at the same time, he'll poop at the same time and it will be much easier to predict when you need to keep an eye on him. Most puppies eat three times a day until about six months, then go to twice a day.idahogurl wrote: I don't have him on an eating schedule and instead open feed.
My puppy poops right after he eats a meal, so I take him out immediately after he eats. If he doesn't poo after a few minutes, we go back inside, get a treat for coming inside, then immediately turn around and go right back out. Doing the same thing should help with your pup - he will eventually give up and poo! It can also help to get him moving around, as he will more easily feel that he needs to potty when moving.
It will be good to train him to enjoy being left alone now, while he's still little. If he doesn't get used to it he will probably develop separation anxiety! I'm sure others will have ideas on this, or I can write up some ideas tomorrow. If you want some ideas in the meantime, Dr Dunbar's books "Before and After Getting Your Puppy" are good for all aspects of puppy-hood, and are available as .PDFs for free or as physical books in most bookstores. "I'll Be Home Soon" by Patricia McConnell is a good book specifically about separation anxiety, though you may only be able to order online. This post on these forums has some good ideas too! https://positively.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 3&p=143095
If he hasn't pooped and you need to do things, keep him on a lightweight leash next to you, or even tied to your belt or foot, until he's comfortable being alone in his crate.
Sorry I can't finish all the advice I can - this is just the simplest stuff and I have to go home to my pup now!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
I'm about to rush out but just to say - is your laundry room where washing and drying machines are used? The noise and vibration from these are terrifying to many dogs.
Possibly you are not at a good time of life to have a dog. You sound a very busy Mom, and a puppy is as much work as another toddler.
We have a pinned thread on potty training that will be of help to you - sorry I have to go out now but others will be along soon.
Possibly you are not at a good time of life to have a dog. You sound a very busy Mom, and a puppy is as much work as another toddler.
We have a pinned thread on potty training that will be of help to you - sorry I have to go out now but others will be along soon.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Ok, before I start, I do feel for you, I know you are trying your best too!
So, first of all, you have children so you'll get this - if you are toilet training a child, to go from pull-up pants to using a potty. Do you take the childs pants off him, and then shut him in a room with a potty in it for 5 minutes at a time and hope he goes in the right spot?
I am pretty much betting here you don't, because you know that a/ your child would be distressed at being shut away from you and b/ you'd have poop and peepee everywhere BUT in the potty!
So - number 1, to toilet train, you have to be there - there is no work-around for that, because you need to be able to reward him for doing the right thing, and also to pair it with a cue word so that some-time down the road, you have a dog who potties completely when you say that word, and then you know he has been (in the same way you tell the kids to go before they get in the car for a long trip!).
So, lets re-jig all this so that you can be effective, and hopefully get this pup toilet trained properly, quickly.
Put the puppy pen back up in the kitchen, put it on a surface you've covered with some plastic sheet taped down to the floor, put a bed one end, a litter tray with some peat/sand mix in there in the other end, and some toys.
THIS is where the puppy goes for those moments that you need to put both eyes on something else. We do not WANT accidents in here, but we are providing a surface that he will learn will ALWAYS be appropriate to go on as an adult (because puppy pads resemble carpet and soft furnishings that will NEVER be appropriate when hes an adult dog).
Put his crate in your bedroom, beside your bed - ideally, have two crates. Get a second hand one off ebay and you can always sell it on again when you don't need it, they tend to hold their value pretty well and this will save you moving the crate around a lot.
At bedtime, hes by your bed, he doesn't need to yell to wake you so you can take him out, he just moves a bit, you hear him, thats cool. It doesn't mean he's going to sleep in your room forever either, you can move him later when he is genuinely happy to be crated at other times and when hes actually potty trained.
So, now you have bedtime and daytime 'when I have to use both eyes and hands for something else' covered - at night you can take him out, in the day if hes in the pen then you are much more likely to see that he needs to go because you can see him, and if hes going on the tray with the peat/sand mix, you can mark and reward that with some treats and your potty word!
The rest of the time, you have your eye on him - use a tether to tie him to your belt, use a gate to keep him in the room with you and when he needs to go, he goes OUTSIDE. Make sure you have a portable baby monitor so you can leave your child in a safe place (playpen! its what they are for!) and pop outside - she may want to come but tough, she can't come, its a few minutes, she can wait for you!
Pup out, give puppy 2 minutes to toilet, if puppy does not toilet, back inside and be ready to watch for him wanting to go - then back outside again/ If you are pretty certtain pup need sto go and is holding it, be ready to go out, inside and then straight back out - don't forget to give the pup plenty of space when outside to go - I would use a long line that is kept by the door - as some pups may feel crowded if you are too close or they are on a short line.
There is a lot of set up here to do - you need to be able to put your child somewhere safe and step outside iwth the pup on a long line, with some treats in your pocket within a few seconds - if that means you need to borrow or hire or get a playpen, do that - its for a few weeks only, its NOT forever, you aren't always going to be juggling this.
But believe me, an adult dog who is not toilet trained is an adult dog who lives outdoors or in the garage, who is NOT a family pet but is pushed aside, and is eventually rehomed - it sucks and no one means to do it, but thats the reality because no ones going to leave an adult dog messing in the house, particularly a house with children crawling around on the floor.
For the crate - start again. Overnight in your room you MAY get away with putting him in the crate and he will chill and go to sleep because hes in your room, he may need you to dangle your hand in there to reassure him you are there - I am going to hope you will be this lucky, if you are not then the next option is him on the bed ideally stick him in the middle in a box and everyone else sleeps round the outside so he can't get out/fall out with out someone waking up (otherwise puppies either fall off the bed oryou wake up to a wet patch!)
Lets say you are lucky, he sleeps in the crate by the bed at night - this does not AT ALL mean he's crate trained, being ok in the crate in another part of the house, and/or during the daytime is a whole other ballgame.
The way to do this is to sit, with your pup and the crate - door open, and some high value treats. Throw a treat in the crate - he goes in to get it, he comes out. Throw in another - he goes in to get it, he comes out. THrow in another - he goes in to get it - THIS TIME... throw in another before he comes out!
Probably helps to sit beside the crate rather than in front of the open door, so you can push treats through the wire side.
The golden rule for this game is - the puppy can ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS come out of the crate if he wants to. He has the choice.
Sounds crazy right because we want the puppy to stay in the crate, but here is the magic... by putting treats in the crate, and by allowing him to choose for himself, and him realising that the ONLY way to earn these treats is to be IN the crate... your puppy will CHOOSE to go in the crate and stay in the crate.
Why is he going to care about being shut in there, eventually, if he WANTS to be in there anyway? He's not going to care.
On the other hand if you shove him in and shut the door and he wants to come OUT, hes going to care a huge amount, hes going to freak out, and cry, and coming OUT of the crate is going to be the biggest deal in the world for him because now he knows its not in his control and it might not be an option!
So - he chooses to go in - a choice you stack heavily in your favour by throwing in treats. He chooses to stay in - a choice that again, you have made the obvious one because the treats keep coming if he just stays there and doesnt move.
All you need to do here is 5 or 10 minute sessions a couple of times a day.
When he starts to see that crate with the door open and he throws himself in there and lies down and is all 'OMG LOOK IM IN THE CRATE'... then you can move to the next stage which would be you sitting a few feet further away, or maybe you sitting near the crate but on a chair not the floor.
Work at that level, again, reward him for going in, reward him for staying in, ignore anything else.
The next level is you moving further away, then perhaps out of sight, then increase the duration and mix up these things so sometimes he waits a few minutes for his treat, sometimes its only 30 seconds BUT you went out of sight for ten and back in again... this is so he NEVER decides that going in the crate will always mean he has to wait longer and longer for his reward!
At no point do you shut that door until your puppy can and will, dive into his crate, and stay there, whilst you move around the room, pop out for a few seconds, come back, sit in a chair, have him wait anywhere from 10 seconds to 10 minutes for his rewards...
When you are there (And this could take you a week, or two weeks, if you do a few short sessions a day), then you can push teh door shut for just a split second. You open it agan BEFORE he ever asks to come out. Add this into the work building up his ability to handle being left, you moving around, long waits between treats etc, until you closing the door is no big deal.
If he EVER attempts to open that door for himself, you have gone too fast and need to go back probably halfway to the where you started from, and re-do (probably only for a day or so though), keep that forefront in your mind because our general human nature is to push for more, better, faster - squash that desire, imagine that him trying to push taht door open is like you losing a life on a computer game - wakawakawakaGameOver!
ALL of this sounds a like a ton of work and I won't lie, it is - but we are talking about a few weeks, of intense work. Just as your daughter won't be 2 and a half forever, neither will your puppy be an unhousetrained puppy - but if you decide the puppy stuff is too much hard work now, imagine 12+ years of cleaning up poo and wee, a dog that lives in teh garage and yells all day, the neighbours complain, the dog isnt trained because he never sees any of you, ... its not going to happen is it, no ones going to spend 12 years living with that... so it really is worth it to put that work in now! And you've raised a child this far, and thats MUCH harder, you can definitely do this!
So, first of all, you have children so you'll get this - if you are toilet training a child, to go from pull-up pants to using a potty. Do you take the childs pants off him, and then shut him in a room with a potty in it for 5 minutes at a time and hope he goes in the right spot?
I am pretty much betting here you don't, because you know that a/ your child would be distressed at being shut away from you and b/ you'd have poop and peepee everywhere BUT in the potty!
So - number 1, to toilet train, you have to be there - there is no work-around for that, because you need to be able to reward him for doing the right thing, and also to pair it with a cue word so that some-time down the road, you have a dog who potties completely when you say that word, and then you know he has been (in the same way you tell the kids to go before they get in the car for a long trip!).
So, lets re-jig all this so that you can be effective, and hopefully get this pup toilet trained properly, quickly.
Put the puppy pen back up in the kitchen, put it on a surface you've covered with some plastic sheet taped down to the floor, put a bed one end, a litter tray with some peat/sand mix in there in the other end, and some toys.
THIS is where the puppy goes for those moments that you need to put both eyes on something else. We do not WANT accidents in here, but we are providing a surface that he will learn will ALWAYS be appropriate to go on as an adult (because puppy pads resemble carpet and soft furnishings that will NEVER be appropriate when hes an adult dog).
Put his crate in your bedroom, beside your bed - ideally, have two crates. Get a second hand one off ebay and you can always sell it on again when you don't need it, they tend to hold their value pretty well and this will save you moving the crate around a lot.
At bedtime, hes by your bed, he doesn't need to yell to wake you so you can take him out, he just moves a bit, you hear him, thats cool. It doesn't mean he's going to sleep in your room forever either, you can move him later when he is genuinely happy to be crated at other times and when hes actually potty trained.
So, now you have bedtime and daytime 'when I have to use both eyes and hands for something else' covered - at night you can take him out, in the day if hes in the pen then you are much more likely to see that he needs to go because you can see him, and if hes going on the tray with the peat/sand mix, you can mark and reward that with some treats and your potty word!
The rest of the time, you have your eye on him - use a tether to tie him to your belt, use a gate to keep him in the room with you and when he needs to go, he goes OUTSIDE. Make sure you have a portable baby monitor so you can leave your child in a safe place (playpen! its what they are for!) and pop outside - she may want to come but tough, she can't come, its a few minutes, she can wait for you!
Pup out, give puppy 2 minutes to toilet, if puppy does not toilet, back inside and be ready to watch for him wanting to go - then back outside again/ If you are pretty certtain pup need sto go and is holding it, be ready to go out, inside and then straight back out - don't forget to give the pup plenty of space when outside to go - I would use a long line that is kept by the door - as some pups may feel crowded if you are too close or they are on a short line.
There is a lot of set up here to do - you need to be able to put your child somewhere safe and step outside iwth the pup on a long line, with some treats in your pocket within a few seconds - if that means you need to borrow or hire or get a playpen, do that - its for a few weeks only, its NOT forever, you aren't always going to be juggling this.
But believe me, an adult dog who is not toilet trained is an adult dog who lives outdoors or in the garage, who is NOT a family pet but is pushed aside, and is eventually rehomed - it sucks and no one means to do it, but thats the reality because no ones going to leave an adult dog messing in the house, particularly a house with children crawling around on the floor.
For the crate - start again. Overnight in your room you MAY get away with putting him in the crate and he will chill and go to sleep because hes in your room, he may need you to dangle your hand in there to reassure him you are there - I am going to hope you will be this lucky, if you are not then the next option is him on the bed ideally stick him in the middle in a box and everyone else sleeps round the outside so he can't get out/fall out with out someone waking up (otherwise puppies either fall off the bed oryou wake up to a wet patch!)
Lets say you are lucky, he sleeps in the crate by the bed at night - this does not AT ALL mean he's crate trained, being ok in the crate in another part of the house, and/or during the daytime is a whole other ballgame.
The way to do this is to sit, with your pup and the crate - door open, and some high value treats. Throw a treat in the crate - he goes in to get it, he comes out. Throw in another - he goes in to get it, he comes out. THrow in another - he goes in to get it - THIS TIME... throw in another before he comes out!
Probably helps to sit beside the crate rather than in front of the open door, so you can push treats through the wire side.
The golden rule for this game is - the puppy can ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS come out of the crate if he wants to. He has the choice.
Sounds crazy right because we want the puppy to stay in the crate, but here is the magic... by putting treats in the crate, and by allowing him to choose for himself, and him realising that the ONLY way to earn these treats is to be IN the crate... your puppy will CHOOSE to go in the crate and stay in the crate.
Why is he going to care about being shut in there, eventually, if he WANTS to be in there anyway? He's not going to care.
On the other hand if you shove him in and shut the door and he wants to come OUT, hes going to care a huge amount, hes going to freak out, and cry, and coming OUT of the crate is going to be the biggest deal in the world for him because now he knows its not in his control and it might not be an option!
So - he chooses to go in - a choice you stack heavily in your favour by throwing in treats. He chooses to stay in - a choice that again, you have made the obvious one because the treats keep coming if he just stays there and doesnt move.
All you need to do here is 5 or 10 minute sessions a couple of times a day.
When he starts to see that crate with the door open and he throws himself in there and lies down and is all 'OMG LOOK IM IN THE CRATE'... then you can move to the next stage which would be you sitting a few feet further away, or maybe you sitting near the crate but on a chair not the floor.
Work at that level, again, reward him for going in, reward him for staying in, ignore anything else.
The next level is you moving further away, then perhaps out of sight, then increase the duration and mix up these things so sometimes he waits a few minutes for his treat, sometimes its only 30 seconds BUT you went out of sight for ten and back in again... this is so he NEVER decides that going in the crate will always mean he has to wait longer and longer for his reward!
At no point do you shut that door until your puppy can and will, dive into his crate, and stay there, whilst you move around the room, pop out for a few seconds, come back, sit in a chair, have him wait anywhere from 10 seconds to 10 minutes for his rewards...
When you are there (And this could take you a week, or two weeks, if you do a few short sessions a day), then you can push teh door shut for just a split second. You open it agan BEFORE he ever asks to come out. Add this into the work building up his ability to handle being left, you moving around, long waits between treats etc, until you closing the door is no big deal.
If he EVER attempts to open that door for himself, you have gone too fast and need to go back probably halfway to the where you started from, and re-do (probably only for a day or so though), keep that forefront in your mind because our general human nature is to push for more, better, faster - squash that desire, imagine that him trying to push taht door open is like you losing a life on a computer game - wakawakawakaGameOver!
ALL of this sounds a like a ton of work and I won't lie, it is - but we are talking about a few weeks, of intense work. Just as your daughter won't be 2 and a half forever, neither will your puppy be an unhousetrained puppy - but if you decide the puppy stuff is too much hard work now, imagine 12+ years of cleaning up poo and wee, a dog that lives in teh garage and yells all day, the neighbours complain, the dog isnt trained because he never sees any of you, ... its not going to happen is it, no ones going to spend 12 years living with that... so it really is worth it to put that work in now! And you've raised a child this far, and thats MUCH harder, you can definitely do this!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Thanks Emmabeth. Erica, and Nettle for your responses! I read those eBooks by Dr. Dunbar and they seem to align with you Emmabeth.
I have three questions.
1) Does his play area need to be in the kitchen? Doesn't the gated off laundry room work? I have his bed, food, and toys in there. The laundry room is connected to the kitchen and he can see me at all times when I am in the kitchen. Even then he freaks. I have to gate off the kitchen so he can be in the same room as me. Basically I think he hates being physically separated from me.
I'm going to try what Dr Dunbar says and put in several stuffed Kongs in when he does have to be in the play area so he knows it is a good place and keep him busy. At the same time do crate like training so he can like his play area when I'm not in the room. I'm going to use gates and a leash attached to me until he likes it.
2) Does he have to go outside? I do stay with him in the garage while he toilets and praise and reward him. Then we go back into the house. Another reason we take him to the garage instead of outside because he hates to toilet outside in the cold and snow.
3) Lastly, does his play area have to have a litter box? When he is in there he does let me know if he needs to go. Is it so that he doesn't need to let me know even in the future? What do you think about bell training? I want him to treat our home as he does with his den. He has never gone in his crate or in his play area.
Thanks again for all your help! I will start having him sleep in his carrier in our bedroom. It's big enough for him to turn around in.
I have three questions.
1) Does his play area need to be in the kitchen? Doesn't the gated off laundry room work? I have his bed, food, and toys in there. The laundry room is connected to the kitchen and he can see me at all times when I am in the kitchen. Even then he freaks. I have to gate off the kitchen so he can be in the same room as me. Basically I think he hates being physically separated from me.
I'm going to try what Dr Dunbar says and put in several stuffed Kongs in when he does have to be in the play area so he knows it is a good place and keep him busy. At the same time do crate like training so he can like his play area when I'm not in the room. I'm going to use gates and a leash attached to me until he likes it.
2) Does he have to go outside? I do stay with him in the garage while he toilets and praise and reward him. Then we go back into the house. Another reason we take him to the garage instead of outside because he hates to toilet outside in the cold and snow.
3) Lastly, does his play area have to have a litter box? When he is in there he does let me know if he needs to go. Is it so that he doesn't need to let me know even in the future? What do you think about bell training? I want him to treat our home as he does with his den. He has never gone in his crate or in his play area.
Thanks again for all your help! I will start having him sleep in his carrier in our bedroom. It's big enough for him to turn around in.
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Two reasons for going back to the kitchen with the playpen - I am assuming he can then be nearer you and see you whilst you are in the kitchen and also (if i am picturing the layout right!) the living room or at least a part of it.
Other reason is that he now has a history of not liking the laundry room, so you are setting yourselves up for failure by carrying on with that. Thats not to say you can't revisit that later on though, but right now he knows he doesn't like being in there so trying to make him be in there is hard work. He really does need to feel part of whats going on and being able to see you through a gated off doorway is not the same as being IN the room, albeit in a play pen.
Plus as I said, hes in the pen ONLY when you absolutely need both hands to do a thing and have to take your eyes off him, so, cooking, certain activities with your child (dressing/undressing/toilet needs, i have no idea if a toddler of htat age is still in diapers etc).
This should really be a VERY small portion of the actual time you are downstairs in your house, we are talking 5 minutes here and there, not ages and ages.
I'd put some good toys in there and have some toys out and about round the downstairs of your house - maybe stack the odds a little for him to like hte pen more by giving REALLY good toys in there and only 'average' toys out.
It is completely normal for puppies to hate being phsyically separated from people, the problem is that the more you do that the likely the worse hes going to get about it - we need to teach dogs to CHOOSE to spend time away from us as that is the way they learn its ok (kinda the difference between a kid WANTING to go off to camp... and enjoying themselves, and a kid told and forced to go and hating it!)
The reason for the litter tray and outside over the garage is that the floor surface of outdoors and the litter tray can be the same (And even if it has snowed on dirt you can scrape it off and he can still smell that there is dirt down there)...
A concrete garage floor smells like concrete and oil and chemicals. Your indoor floors will in most houses, also smell like concrete and chemicals and plastics. A concrete floor is pretty smooth, a tiled,lino, parquet or vinyl floor is... pretty smooth. Puppy pads resemble soft furnishings, rugs etc...
Its about him building a habit of 'always going on this surface' and if you want him to differentiate between surfaces they need to be pretty different. Household surfaces are too close to the garage and potty pads, he WILL make mistakes.
For outdoors what I would do is make a simple 3 sided shelter thats quick to dig out and can remain his potty area. Sure it is cold out there but actually dogs have furry coats and they cope very well - if sled dogs can manage to LIVE on the snow, and yes they have decent coats for that, but their paw pads are not any different to any other dog (maybe more fur between the pads but the pad itself is the same stuff!) then any dog can go out and do a pee and a poo that takes a few minutes to do. Think dog - not floofy fragile creature!
If you really really really can't do outside, then make an indoor dog loo in the garage, again peat and sand or bark mulch is also good (avoid the kind that has cocoa mulch in it, thats dangerous for dogs to chew on!), and offer the same substrate if you need a potty area elsewhere (if you think you don't need it, great!) - that will be VERY different to engineered flooring in the house/garage and when its not snow and ice outside he should transfer to outdoors much easier.
Other reason is that he now has a history of not liking the laundry room, so you are setting yourselves up for failure by carrying on with that. Thats not to say you can't revisit that later on though, but right now he knows he doesn't like being in there so trying to make him be in there is hard work. He really does need to feel part of whats going on and being able to see you through a gated off doorway is not the same as being IN the room, albeit in a play pen.
Plus as I said, hes in the pen ONLY when you absolutely need both hands to do a thing and have to take your eyes off him, so, cooking, certain activities with your child (dressing/undressing/toilet needs, i have no idea if a toddler of htat age is still in diapers etc).
This should really be a VERY small portion of the actual time you are downstairs in your house, we are talking 5 minutes here and there, not ages and ages.
I'd put some good toys in there and have some toys out and about round the downstairs of your house - maybe stack the odds a little for him to like hte pen more by giving REALLY good toys in there and only 'average' toys out.
It is completely normal for puppies to hate being phsyically separated from people, the problem is that the more you do that the likely the worse hes going to get about it - we need to teach dogs to CHOOSE to spend time away from us as that is the way they learn its ok (kinda the difference between a kid WANTING to go off to camp... and enjoying themselves, and a kid told and forced to go and hating it!)
The reason for the litter tray and outside over the garage is that the floor surface of outdoors and the litter tray can be the same (And even if it has snowed on dirt you can scrape it off and he can still smell that there is dirt down there)...
A concrete garage floor smells like concrete and oil and chemicals. Your indoor floors will in most houses, also smell like concrete and chemicals and plastics. A concrete floor is pretty smooth, a tiled,lino, parquet or vinyl floor is... pretty smooth. Puppy pads resemble soft furnishings, rugs etc...
Its about him building a habit of 'always going on this surface' and if you want him to differentiate between surfaces they need to be pretty different. Household surfaces are too close to the garage and potty pads, he WILL make mistakes.
For outdoors what I would do is make a simple 3 sided shelter thats quick to dig out and can remain his potty area. Sure it is cold out there but actually dogs have furry coats and they cope very well - if sled dogs can manage to LIVE on the snow, and yes they have decent coats for that, but their paw pads are not any different to any other dog (maybe more fur between the pads but the pad itself is the same stuff!) then any dog can go out and do a pee and a poo that takes a few minutes to do. Think dog - not floofy fragile creature!
If you really really really can't do outside, then make an indoor dog loo in the garage, again peat and sand or bark mulch is also good (avoid the kind that has cocoa mulch in it, thats dangerous for dogs to chew on!), and offer the same substrate if you need a potty area elsewhere (if you think you don't need it, great!) - that will be VERY different to engineered flooring in the house/garage and when its not snow and ice outside he should transfer to outdoors much easier.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Thank you Emmabeth! How often should we change the litter box?
What about the dog litter that they sell? It is made from recycled paper. http://www.petsmart.com/supplies-traini ... m%3Dsearch
What about the UGODOG system? http://www.ugodog.net
What about the dog litter that they sell? It is made from recycled paper. http://www.petsmart.com/supplies-traini ... m%3Dsearch
What about the UGODOG system? http://www.ugodog.net
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
I would not get either the UGODOG system or any other like that, or use paper granules (or any other kitty litter) - the point here is to make the litter tray AS close to going outside as you possibly can, so that in the future you have a dog who WILL go outside when possible and you can take that dog on holiday or out for a whole day without a problem.
A dog who will ONLY go on one surface, and that surface is not a surface you find naturally, can become a real pain to live with and probably a very uncomfortable dog if they are often taken to places that don't offer their preferred potty substrate - imagine if you went for a day out or worse, a holiday, and found that there were no toilets you felt happy using, maybe they had no doors on them and everyone could see... ugh!
What you want is a big enough tray that will contain some peat mixed with sand, or some bark mulch - a natural substrate that is going to smell like earth/dirt/soil.
If you have someone even slightly useful at DIY type stuff, what I would do is use bark mulch over a fine gauge wire frame so that the mulch is raised up off hte bottom of the tray by a cm or two, no more, just so liquid drains out and you can rinse it through easily - even better if they can drill a hole in the bottom of the tray for drainage and fit a length of tubing to the nearest drain so you can clean it and rinse it through without having to tip the whole thing up to get rid of excess water!
This way you would then pick up poos as they happen (once your dog is used to using the box) and then each day you'll rinse the mulch in the tray through and tip out the excess water. If you are sure pup has been and won't need to use it for half an hour or so, you could also pour a couple of kettles of boiling water through it (be sure the box or tray its standing IN will take boiling water!!) to scald it but obviously you can't let a pup straight onto bark mulch thats boiling hot!
Then I would probably replace half the mulch every week or two weeks with half a new bag. You may need to switch that around, it does depend on the dog really and how often you scald it (the more its used and scalded the quicker the mulch is going to break down to mush!).
The cost for this system is going to be way cheaper btw - a sack of bark mulch is around $4 - you will MAYBE use one sack a fortnight depending on the size of the tray and how often you empty it completely.
A sack of that paper puppy litter is $6.99 and you can't rinse that through, you will be going through a few sacks of that a week!
So - you want a big flat drip/spill tray (I'd go pretty big personally) depending on where you can get one if you don't already have one, probably around $80 but bear in mind I'm looking online fro the UK you may well find better deals that that - something like this though http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/pig-utilit ... by_product
Then some fine gauge wire to create an inner 'basket' for your mulch, like this http://www.lowes.com/pd_492388-16418-84 ... re%20cloth - you'll need it to fit inside the tray so that there are no sharp edges liable to poke the dog OR the tray,a nd it raises the mulch off the bottom of the tray by a max of half an inch.
After that you want to drill a hole and fit into the hole with some silicone sealant, a fitting to take a short length of hosepipe or other flexible tubing...
And then you are done - at a similar price to the large plastic 'dog toilets' you can buy online but wtih a bigger capacity and a natural substrate (also if you do this please take a picture of each stage so that next time I have to describe it to someone, it's a whole lot easier! please please please!)
Anyway to re-cap the important points - the surface your dog toilets on NEEDS to be natural. The major problem with dogs toileting indoors or at least, not 'outdoors' is NOT in fact WHERE they are toileting, but WHAT they are toileting ON. Keep it natural, keep it to a surface they'd find and recognise outside and you will save yourself a whole bunch of trouble later on!
A dog who will ONLY go on one surface, and that surface is not a surface you find naturally, can become a real pain to live with and probably a very uncomfortable dog if they are often taken to places that don't offer their preferred potty substrate - imagine if you went for a day out or worse, a holiday, and found that there were no toilets you felt happy using, maybe they had no doors on them and everyone could see... ugh!
What you want is a big enough tray that will contain some peat mixed with sand, or some bark mulch - a natural substrate that is going to smell like earth/dirt/soil.
If you have someone even slightly useful at DIY type stuff, what I would do is use bark mulch over a fine gauge wire frame so that the mulch is raised up off hte bottom of the tray by a cm or two, no more, just so liquid drains out and you can rinse it through easily - even better if they can drill a hole in the bottom of the tray for drainage and fit a length of tubing to the nearest drain so you can clean it and rinse it through without having to tip the whole thing up to get rid of excess water!
This way you would then pick up poos as they happen (once your dog is used to using the box) and then each day you'll rinse the mulch in the tray through and tip out the excess water. If you are sure pup has been and won't need to use it for half an hour or so, you could also pour a couple of kettles of boiling water through it (be sure the box or tray its standing IN will take boiling water!!) to scald it but obviously you can't let a pup straight onto bark mulch thats boiling hot!
Then I would probably replace half the mulch every week or two weeks with half a new bag. You may need to switch that around, it does depend on the dog really and how often you scald it (the more its used and scalded the quicker the mulch is going to break down to mush!).
The cost for this system is going to be way cheaper btw - a sack of bark mulch is around $4 - you will MAYBE use one sack a fortnight depending on the size of the tray and how often you empty it completely.
A sack of that paper puppy litter is $6.99 and you can't rinse that through, you will be going through a few sacks of that a week!
So - you want a big flat drip/spill tray (I'd go pretty big personally) depending on where you can get one if you don't already have one, probably around $80 but bear in mind I'm looking online fro the UK you may well find better deals that that - something like this though http://www.newpig.com/pig/US/pig-utilit ... by_product
Then some fine gauge wire to create an inner 'basket' for your mulch, like this http://www.lowes.com/pd_492388-16418-84 ... re%20cloth - you'll need it to fit inside the tray so that there are no sharp edges liable to poke the dog OR the tray,a nd it raises the mulch off the bottom of the tray by a max of half an inch.
After that you want to drill a hole and fit into the hole with some silicone sealant, a fitting to take a short length of hosepipe or other flexible tubing...
And then you are done - at a similar price to the large plastic 'dog toilets' you can buy online but wtih a bigger capacity and a natural substrate (also if you do this please take a picture of each stage so that next time I have to describe it to someone, it's a whole lot easier! please please please!)
Anyway to re-cap the important points - the surface your dog toilets on NEEDS to be natural. The major problem with dogs toileting indoors or at least, not 'outdoors' is NOT in fact WHERE they are toileting, but WHAT they are toileting ON. Keep it natural, keep it to a surface they'd find and recognise outside and you will save yourself a whole bunch of trouble later on!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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AliceGrimm
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:38 am
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Desperately need potty training help!!
Okay, I have a question.. actually two. Firstly I want to start off saying that I am NOT asking the first question as a long term thing. Just those certain days where you may not have another person in your household to take the puppy out during this crucial time and the puppy is too young to hold it. Just a way to set a puppy up for success and give them access to a potty area. Though all other times are spent taking the puppy outside and going outside is highly rewarded.emmabeth wrote:Anyway to re-cap the important points - the surface your dog toilets on NEEDS to be natural. The major problem with dogs toileting indoors or at least, not 'outdoors' is NOT in fact WHERE they are toileting, but WHAT they are toileting ON. Keep it natural, keep it to a surface they'd find and recognise outside and you will save yourself a whole bunch of trouble later on!
Question 1:
If a person could (and I know this isn't possible for everyone) get a litter box and fill it with actual dirt from their yard and such. Maybe put a piece of poo on it and then take it off. Could they get the puppy to use the litter box, get use to the feel and smell of earth from their own yard?
My thinking is, if you part of the yard the puppy can feel and smell what outside feels and smells like. You would bag the poop after like as if it were outside. And perhaps dump that earth back out there or part of it, and get fresh earth, but in the area where you take your dog out to normally go. So it also smells like a potty area.. and you are changing stuff and what not.
I feel like this would help a puppy grasp what outside feels like and only want to go there..
Question 2:
However, I am totally nervous about even taking a puppy outside or to do this because not all the puppies shots are accomplished and I fear that the puppy may come down with Parvo. How do you guys help your puppies continue their socialization with people and other dogs and potty training when they still need to finish their shots and you are terrified of the Parvo disease?