Help! Might have to get rid of our dog due to aggression

[heatherosby]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Heather and I have a 5 year old vizsla named George. I thank you in advance for reading this post.

George has lots of personality and a kind heart, but we are struggling with some aggression issues and contemplating getting rid of him after he tried to bite my 1 year old in the face.

Here is a little background.

We got George at 7 weeks from a reputable breeder who we maintain a relationship with. For 4 years it was just the dog, my husband, and I. He got lots of attention and probably had a little bit too much freedom. Around the age of 2 we noticed a little bit of aggression in George if he had a bully stick and he thought my husband was going to take it from him. He would growl until we would back off. Eventually that growling turned into lunging and snapping. This would happen maybe twice a year. We decided to eliminate all bully sticks unless he was in his kennel and the problem seemed to deal with itself.

The older he got the more anxiety we started to notice in him. Our neighbors have little yippy dogs and for years he never cared about them barking. Then one day he couldn't handle it anymore and starting barking incessantly and trying to jump our six foot fence to get at them. We literally have to break his concentration and get him to focus back on us to stop the behavior. Additionally he began to get terrified of going to the vet, or to Petco (where he gets his nails trimmed). We tried doggy daycare a few times and he would just shake in the car when we went to get him out. I've noticed he gets nervous if anything has a strong smell like essential oils, or if things get too loud.

All of this anxiety business was pretty manageable until we had our baby last year. Once we brought her home he become what can only be described as depressed. He wanted to be around me all the time and when I didn't have as much time for him he became more and more withdrawn. Additionally he started to become extremely aggressive with my husband. If he felt at all like he was going to be in trouble, scared, or nervous he would jump and lunge at his face growling and snapping. The attacking would continue until we could break his concentration sometimes by literally throwing a blanket on top of him to stop him. One example of this is one day the dog was laying on the floor near the baby but not too close, it was kind of cute so my husband stood up to take a picture with his phone. The dog out of nowhere jumped up and growled and lunged at his face.

Our vet was extremely concerned about the lack of consistency in his aggression (he couldn't determine one thing that he would aggress over) and suggested that we put him down. We were against this idea and opted to try Prozac instead.

We initially put him on 2 pills a day which curbed the aggression it seemed, but mostly because he was just so tired that he didn't do anything except sleep. Our happy, playful dog, just wanted to lay in his bed all day long. Because his behavior seemed to be improving we decided after about 6 months on the prozac to back him down to 1 pill a day. The lower dose seemed to keep his aggression at bay while at the same time allowed his personality to return. Things were going quite well until last week when my daughter and I were playing on the floor with a few stuffed dogs. He was watching us play and I simply had told him that the toys were not his. Piper, my daughter, was playing about 2 feet away from him and playing zero attention to George. All of a sudden he just started shaking uncontrollably and when I looked over at him and said "George, what's going on" he lunged at my daughters face and growled was snapping at her. Our nanny was standing right there and she picked up my daughter quickly and walked into another room. The dog followed her and continued to lunge until I broke his concentration by saying let's go outside. When I got him to follow me I put him in his kennel without saying anything and as I went to close the door he was growling at me (he almost never does this to me).

At this point I just don't know what to do. We have sent George off to stay with my parents for a little while and I'm not sure if he should stay there permanently or if there is anyway he can be rehabilitated. Up until this point he has tolerated my daughter, but never loved her. He gets very nervous when she touches him and will growl at her if she comes near him while he is eating.

A few of the basics about George:

His food is in a different room
He is almost never alone during the day due to the fact that we have a nanny
We have a dog walker that comes twice a week for about 1.5 hours each time
We have a doggy door so he has access to outside
He is fed Taste of the Wild dog food

We have spent thousands of dollars on dog training. Some of which was good and others not so good. In the beginning we were advised that my husband should be the "alpha" and establish dominance over the dog so I do believe that some of harsher things we tried in the beginning (ie putting into a submissive position, and use of an electronic collar could have contributed to these issues). I feel so awful about that, but in the beginning I didn't know better.

George has been my baby for years, but I now have to consider my actual child and her safety and I'm not sure what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Ari_RR]

My 2 cents... Although a very sad and heartbreaking situation, the human baby's safety comes first.
Nanny was nearby and reacted quickly that time, but next time may not be so lucky.
I share vet's concern... Inability to pinpoint a trigger may suggest a neurological problem or some other underlying health issue, which would make managing the situation a lot more difficult.

If at all possible, I would keep him George at the parents' place. Babies are scary even to very healthy and confident dogs. I would not risk them being in the same house.

Experts will be along soon, and I am sure you will get some good analysis and advice. Thanks for not giving up on George.

[mansbestfriend]

Sticky?

Hi. I'm not a professional but I'd also suggest find a Positive Reinforcement, reward-based behaviourist and trainer in your area for a personal face to face consultation, and assessment and advice about your and your dog's options. Maybe someone can recommend a specific behaviorist/trainer.

Hope your daughter is OK.
Best wishes.

[emmabeth]

Are your parents on board with potentially keeping George permanently - are they completely committed and on board with having a really good positive reinforcement based, force free trainer/behaviour consultant work wtih them.

Honestly if the answer to either of those questions is no then the best option for GEORGE may be to consider euthanasia, because whatever happens next requires committment and force free training, those two things are non-negotiable now.


Moving on - ok, yes its almost certain that the methods you were sold that involved dominance, punishment etc etc, have made the problems worse - you understand that, and thats good (because it means you won't go that route again and maybe you will tell other people not to also) - but now let that go. You did not know, and the people who DID or SHOULD have known the risks purposely did NOT tell you, because they wanted your money. Maybe some of them didn't even know the risks (I have come across a few dominance/punishment based trainers who are seemingly clueless about the risks!)...

But, you sought help and advice, and you were sold BAD help and advice, until teh dog training and behaviour industry is properly regulated across the world, this kind of thing will keep on happening and its innocent folk like you who suffer (and of course, the dogs!).


So - the good news is that a lot of Georges problems are very likely relatively easy to solve (And i dont say that lightly, and that doesnt mean his behaviour now isn't serious) - but it may well mean a high degree of sensible and safe management, and possibly some people completely changing their attitude and the way they act and behave aroundthe dog.

By this I do mainly mean men, and specifically your husband - theres probably a lot of things men do that George now interprets to mean 'this person is getting threatening and confrontational with me... I need to protect myself'...

And unfortunately men who tend to be larger, physically stronger, have a deeper voice and will often inadvertantly adopt a rather challenging stance or posture... will often trigger a dog into thinking 'ooh err thats a bit confrontational'...

In dogs who have never had any reason to fear the man actually getting confrontational or aggressive, thats where it tends to end, the dog avoids the man, the man often has no clue the dog is worried... But with your dog, he DOES have a really good reason to fear that sort of body language, so he is going to be on the look out for it.

Just like any person who has experienced a traumatic event, an attack or a violent accident, it then tends to put you on edge in certain situations. For example I got run over by a car, whilst crossing the road, 23 years ago. I am STILL wary and on edge crossing roads now, better on my own and worse if someones standing next to me, because the context 'crossing hte road with someone stood next to me' is v similar to the way i got hit!...

For George, your husband standing very very still and probably leaning toward him a little, pointing the camera at him, was quite probably similar enough to a situation where your husband punished him, for him to remember and act to protect himself.


Thats just one example - theres nothing in your posts that I can't find a really simple explanation for so whilst his aggression might have confused your vet, I don't think its particularly baffling - HOWEVER - I think it would be impossible for you to retrain him and modify his behaviour, whilst raisinga child, in a home with the person he really fears the most.

It MAY be possible to work wtih him living somewhere else but you do need to have a serious conversation wtih your parents as to how they feel about managing him and doing the work, because he will now, no matter how well you modify his behaviour and address his fears, always have in the back of his mind 'a human MIGHT mean me serious harm'... so you won't be able to take risks that we all take with our dogs ie, answering the phone in the hall whilst hes in the room wtih a child... opening the door to let a stranger in when hes still in the room with you...

Euthanising a dog is horribly horribly sad... for us. For the dog, being brutally honest with you, there are far far worse things that could happen. As far as what the dog experiences, he goes to sleep like he would for a routine op........ and thats it. He has no concept of the future, and he can't know what is happening. Better than than living half a life shut away somewhere, or the horror of him actually biting someone and being dragged away for quarantine and euthanasia at a strangers hand.

[Maxy24]

Personally I would not feel comfortable having a dog without predictable triggers or with a large number of triggers in a house with a child, especially one that young. I can only imagine things getting worse when your baby is walking. In a different (child free) home I'd definitely suggest working on it with a trainer/behaviorist, the fact that he has never actually bitten (he chooses to snap instead of bite) is promising for his outlook. He clearly has resource guarding issues but it's hard to say if that was why the two incidents you mentioned occurred. If that was the cause then he guards a whole lot of things which is an issue. I just don't think it sounds like a safe situation since he seems nervous about her even in non-trigger situations. It's not like he loves her except for when she triggers his resource guarding, she has him on edge all the time. Also the prolonged nature of his reaction (following after nanny lunging) is concerning.

Are your parents willing to keep him? Have you spoken to the breeder?

[Steve29]

I would advise separating the dog from the child as soon as possible. It is not worth the chance. A friend of mine's little brother was bitten in the face when very young and still has scaring. The dog had never shown aggression towards the child before, so they never suspected anything. Your dog might make a good companion for someone without children and I would much rather see him go to another person rather than be put down. If you leave the dog in your home and he bites your child you might be put in the place where the dog would have to be put down, so for both the dog's and your child's sake it would be best to separate them.

[jacksdad]

prozac was a good option, but it sounds like it was done without an accompanying behavior modification plan that was based on classical conditioning and positive reinforcement. prozac by it's self can't solve the underlying issues. The role of prozac is to take the "edge" off, and create a "window" to work in to change the underlying behavior issues.

if done right, prozac should not create a "zombie" dog, and combined with a good training plan can make the difference. But this all assumes you actually have the time to put into the training.

Emma covered what I would have basically said.