Aggression in 9 week old puppy

[OnceInAWeil]

Hi all! Long time no chat.

So I've done two private lessons with a family that has the cutest 9-week-old Rottweiler pup. He is perfect in every way, except that when you touch him under the armpits or try to lift him (even if you try to go slowly and are not leaning directly over him), he displays real growls and warning snaps. He has made contact a couple of times.

The clients' vet recommending neutering--SIGH--but thankfully they are open to suggestions for a new vet. I'm thinking that despite the age, a serious health check is in order just in case. I've also started them on handling exercises and told them to ask the breeder if she's ever seen anything like this with any of her puppies before. If there is no improvement by next week, they're going to put him on the board and train program at the facility I now work for. Our hope is that with several knowledgeable, positive trainers doing handling exercises during his formative weeks, this can be nipped in the bud.

Do you think this type of behavior in such a young puppy can be trained out? Or because it's showing up this soon, is it likely to carry over and be a fundamental part of the dog's personality? Anything in particular the vet should look for? Anything to try besides handling exercises? Any other thoughts?

[Maxy24]

Unless it's pain (which is a real possibility) I'd guess a temperament issue. If he was an adolescent I wouldn't be as concerned, they can go through a "You can't make me do what I don't want to do!!!" phase, often displaying aggression for the first time. But at nine weeks I'd be concerned. That doesn't mean nothing can be done, the dog can still undergo counter conditioning and will likely improve a lot, the issue may even go away. But the underlying temperament will not (if that's the issue), what his exact issue is I'm not sure of. He may always have handling issues (grooming, trying to move when he doesn't want to) that will require extra work to get through. He won't be as easy as most dogs, you can't just DO stuff to him, you have to train him to accept it first. But who knows for sure, I'd definitely get a vet check.

[jacksdad]

I would double check for any health issues. even remote or things typically not associated with a puppy this young.

I would also take a step back and make sure the handling is being done appropriately, at the dog's pace, and tied to SUPER good treats and or other super good things...from the dog's perspective of course. you really, really want to make sure that this isn't' a case of a dog that just has a preference for not having arm pits touched and being picked up and people are thinking that "this is a puppy we must dog this, this way etc" and this puppy just doesn't fit the cookie cutter mold and in trying to do the right thing aren't creating issues by doing "the right thing" out of habit and not concidering this puppy is not going to "follow the book". Really make sure what is being asked of this puppy is reasonable, realistic etc. given THIS puppy (verse again what the book says all puppies should be like) and his age.

also, given 9 weeks of age, I am assuming the owners have only had him for days? if so, they are asking a lot. I think finding out (for what it's worth and if possible) if the breeder saw this when they handled the puppy...they did handle it right? because if they didn't you might be looking at the cause or contributing cause.

Do keep in mind, even if the breeder was ideal, picture perfect, did everything right, never seen this before in all their litters and is telling the truth...genetics as you know ultimately is a rolling of the dice.

so in summery, my 2 cents... check for health issues, if possible see if breeder saw any of this when the puppy was with them, and consider that maybe things might be moving too fast for this 9 week puppy. backing off verse "lets board and train and have lots of different people work with this puppy" might be the way to go. I realize that the formative windows are short, there is lots to do in order to make sure that the puppy gets off on the right foot etc, etc, etc...but we need to use judgement and not be tied to "the book".

neutering a 9 week puppy....that vet should lose their license in my opinion.

[Sanna]

What Jacksdad said ^^
I'm no expert but my Rottweiler x was very much the same as a pup, he did NOT like to be touched or restrained in any way. He's not fearful or unfriendly, I think he's just extremely sensitive to touch (a bit disappointing from a personal point of view as who doesn't enjoy cuddles with their dog, but he's just never going to be that dog and that's ok). Maybe this pup's the same, it's just his personality. Doesn't make him a bad dog, but like Maxy said it will be more work; I had to put in A LOT of training time to do the 'normal' stuff like putting harness on, taking collar off, checking ears and paws etc etc.

Mine has learned to enjoy some types of touch and accepts being handled up to a point, he will now at 2 yrs old ask me for bum or back rubs and come back for more but only if he knows you and it's done 'the right' way.. With training and time we have got to a point where he allows people to touch him as long as it's not his head and doesn't go on for too long- he doesn't enjoy it but puts up with it (I do my best to prevent him from having to as I don't think it's fair on him, but he's now 'safe' if someone randomly touches him).

My advice (if it's not health/pain related): yes lots of handling exercises BUT keep it VERY short and sweet. Can the family accept that this dog might never be a cuddle dog (that's a hard thing to do, especially with puppies they're just soooo darn cuddly!)?
When it comes to being picked up, I'm thinking 'why?'- soon he'll be too big and they won't be able to anyway? If it's for getting in the car or something my solution was to teach him to do it himself, I used boxes for him to climb on until he was big enough to jump up himself. He used to love this mission of getting himself in the car
The one thing that I found really helpful in teaching mine to enjoy touch, not just put up with it, was T-touch I'd def recommend having someone who knows T-touch show the family some exercises, I only do some basic ones with Precious but it's really helped him relax and enjoy being touched. I only started doing it a few months ago and it's really made a difference.
Don't know if this helps you at all but thought I'd share.

[Nettle]

What the others have said, especially a better health check (with a vet that isn't pushing neutering a very young puppy, FFS!) and regarding whether he was handled at the breeders.

But most of all I hear klaxons and see flashing lights - WHY are they trying to pick him up and HOW and WHEN are they doing it? Here, I suspect is the root of the problem. Maybe they are using picking up in ways that scare or frustrate him and he hasn't got too many ways of saying Don't Do That To Me. As Sanna so pungently says, they ain't gonna be picking up a grown Rott so they need to be looking at luring and placing, rather than manhandling. This is SO not 'aggression' - this is communication - and he is having to shout because nobody listened when he was polite.

[OnceInAWeil]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

I have definitely shown them how to take things slow and pair touch with super yummy treats. So far this seems to be going well. I agree about he puppy possibly being overwhelmed--I think they have mainly tried to pick him up when he was having/about to have an accident, and when he tries to eat the new sod that was just put down on their lawn. He isn't a fan of the leash yet and will refuse to budge when led (we are working on this, too, a la kikopup). The vet tried to lift him onto a table.

They definitely won't be lifting a fully grown rottweiler, but he isn't reacting with growling and warning bites only when lifted. It can be just from a brief touch. I'm not the most experienced trainer out there but I've trained my fair share of puppies, and this behavior isn't what I'd call typical. The family also has young children in the house. The kids have been doing great with training instructions, but if this behavior continues when the pup gets bigger, it could make for a dangerous situation if they forget and accidentally touch him even slightly the wrong way.

I will let you know what the vet I referred them to has to say.

[JudyN]

The family also has young children in the house. The kids have been doing great with training instructions, but if this behavior continues when the pup gets bigger, it could make for a dangerous situation if they forget and accidentally touch him even slightly the wrong way.

Having a big dog who can be aggressive and who was a nightmare as a youngster, I'd be worried about this. If I had had small children, I simply couldn't have kept Jasper - there's no two ways about it, and I wouldn't have had to do too much soul-searching to make that decision.

Sometimes you need to encourage people to try everything possible, to manage the dog every moment of his day, and to give him a fair chance. But if that means that it just takes one management slip for a child to be badly injured, then it can be risky advice. Plus some dogs who can flip can develop additional, unexpected ways to flip further down the line.

In all honesty, in their position I would seriously consider returning the pup to the breeder while it's still young and has a good chance of finding another home (without children) rather than persevere for weeks and months and face possible heartbreak.

Just my tuppenceworth, and not very postive, I know...