overwhelmed on walks..

[katej215]

I'm in need of some fresh idea's guys...apologies, this might be a longish post...

As I have mentioned before Hattie has noise phobia, which includes feeling overwhelmed when out on walks when in busy areas...this has been going on for her whole life (she's nearly 3), and I think it has stemmed from me overwhelming her /not recognising how sensitive she is when she was a puppy...

Anyway things have improved massively in the last year, she no longer runs and hides when she sees me getting ready for walks, largely due to the fact that we normally start our walk at a dog friendly cafe around the corner, where she gets a huge fuss, a few bits of crusts and then lies beautifully at my feet watching the world go by while I have a coffee...which has meant she's now generally less worried by heavy lorries, buses etc going by...

Saying all that, she still won't just walk happily along the street with me..SOMETIMES on a good day I can take her down our usual route to the beach without her digging her heels in and refusing to move, other days not. In the past we had improved to the point of doing other longer walks from the house, however we seem to have gone backwards of late, and I feel like this is a long shot at the moment, so to get a longer walk we have been getting dropped off by my husband on his way to work, and we do a nice 5 mile walk home which suits Hat as is mostly off lead, quiet and rural

However I'd just love not to have to rely on this and do our own thing..let me describe what happened today which is pretty typical...

we left the cafe...I (as usual) had to coax Hattie out with treats, then played our usual game of ready, steady..where I throw a treat out in front and she gets it...OR I say, 'lets go' and she takes a step forward she gets huge praise and a treat...Then as she realises we are not going to the beach and are heading towards the A13 (a busy road we have to cross) she stops..sometimes I get a few calming signals (sniffing usually) ..so i give it a few minutes of standing there not saying anything, then i quietly pick her up and carry her down the road and over the busy road, putting her down when we are back on a quiet street...more standing still, I sit on a wall and feed her treats...then i pick her up again, carry her down to a patch of grass and a poo bin, she sniffs around while i put her poo in the bin, and when i pick up the lead, she immediately tugs towards home (she dosent pull on the lead, but will tug me in a direction when she means business!!)...so I let her head for home...she trots beautifully up the road, back across the busy road and home....when we get home I can tell she dosen't really want to go in, so I suggest we walk to the top of the road, which she's ok about till she hears banging from the local tyre place, so stops again and looks unsure...at this point, I turn around and take her home...

couple of points to mention /observations..

she can stop and want to come home on quiet streets as well as busy ones

she always walks well on the way home!!

she always knows when we are going out in the car, which she loves and have no problems at all!

I often let her choose which direction to go..given she's a fox terrier, she's always keen to make her own decisions... ..BUT it dosent always make for the best walks, as we end up walking up and down the high street between the pet shop and the cafe

she is used to being picked up, and will sometime almost ask to be picked up when we are out...I am assuming this is because she feels safe ?

I have been home for the last couple of weeks, but for the last 7/8 months I have been working away part of the week and Hat is walked by a dog walker 3 days a week...I am not 100% sure what proportion of her walks are car / walks from the house...I am now home for the next few months, so want to use this time to try and sort this out..

Anyway thanks for reading guys...be grateful for some ideas..

[WufWuf]

Please forgive me as I'm probably going to quote you a lot as I'm a bit brain broken (as usual) and it's easier for me that way.

First off

I often let her choose which direction to go..given she's a fox terrier, she's always keen to make her own decisions... ..BUT it dosent always make for the best walks, as we end up walking up and down the high street between the pet shop and the cafe

This is going to be the best plan for helping her to feel better. I KNOW it's super boring and to be honest you are going to have to make up for the lack of walks at home or do lots of these walks but keep them short.

SOMETIMES on a good day I can take her down our usual route to the beach without her digging her heels in and refusing to move, other days not

If she shows ANY resistance at all, go whichever way she wants even if it's back home. Giving her back her power to say "no" without you trying to get her to change her mind will help her confidence grow as she will learn that she gets to decide how much she can cope with. Coaxing is not a good plan at the moment.

then played our usual game of ready, steady..where I throw a treat out in front and she gets it

Make sure to play this game when she is happily moving along as well as when you need to distract her, you will help make the "moving" a more rewarding behaviour to engage in.

I say, 'lets go' and she takes a step forward she gets huge praise and a treat..

For the moment drop the praise part of this game, this will help her to feel calmer, anxious dogs don't really "absorb" praise in the way happy dogs do, it swamps them and adds pressure to the situation, try to think "what's the minimum I need to do" in any situation with her so that she can "be" in the world with the least amount of different things to consider/process.

i quietly pick her up and carry her down the road and over the busy road, putting her down when we are back on a quiet street...more standing still, I sit on a wall and feed her treats...then i pick her up again, carry her down to a patch of grass and a poo bin, she sniffs around while i put her poo in the bin, and when i pick up the lead, she immediately tugs towards home

Even though she may be fine about being picked up, being carried somewhere she doesn't want to go will not make her want to be there when she gets there. Again this is another situaton where she needs to feel that she can say "no" and be listened to.

she always walks well on the way home!!

I call this "getting it done", she's probably not really feeling relaxed - just focused on the job of getting home to the safe place.

we left the cafe...I (as usual) had to coax Hattie out with treats,

A good first step in all this would be to take her to the cafe and when you are done don't say a word, I'm sure she knows what it looks like when you are about to leave. Just step away from the table and wait for her to make the first move (might take a while the first few times, stay calm, feel happy inside that you have a plan and wait) when she makes a move just follow her where ever she chooses to go, don't at any point encourage her just let her "be" and think for herself. She will most likely go home - this is fine and a huge step for her to get to make that decision.

Play some games at home and give her a while to chill out, then if you can do the same thing (might want to go for a decaf )

This is very much going to be a "play it by ear" situation where you will have to let her be your guide but also know when to make some decisions for her, such as she might not want to go into the house but there's no point in letting her go anywhere else if YOU know she's going to get a fright.

I know this sounds cheesy but I often use the lyrics of "The Gambler" in these situations

"You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,

Know when to walk away, know when to run."

So I know this is all over the place but it was post a messy answer or you'd be waiting for me to get a good brain day to post a better one So please feel free to ask me if I've not explained anything or the reason why I think something will help is not clear. I'm happy to write more just wanted to give you some things to think about and decide what you need to know, saves me waffleing on .

Also on reading this back the "be the boss" folks would have a fit if they saw this advice

[katej215]

Hey WufWuf..thanks for your reply

Giving her back her power to say "no" without you trying to get her to change her mind will help her confidence grow as she will learn that she gets to decide how much she can cope with. Coaxing is not a good plan at the moment.

Thanks for the reassurance that letting her make her own decisions is the right thing to do!. I think sometimes when you've got an ongoing problem you can get tangled up arguing back and forth with yourself...I guess there was a degree of fear in my head that letting her make her own decisions might set a behaviour of her only ever wanting to walk in the direction she wants to go! I general terms she's always seems so clear about what SHE wants to do...and although I love this trait so much, (it makes me smile just thinking about it, she's such a strong character, she's hilarious) I guess if I'm honest I have an under lying twinge that this is somehow something i need to discourage..

katej215 wrote:
then played our usual game of ready, steady..where I throw a treat out in front and she gets it


Make sure to play this game when she is happily moving along as well as when you need to distract her, you will help make the "moving" a more rewarding behaviour to engage in.

I do have a 'secret weapon' that I've refrained from using (a squeaky furry toy she only ever sees when we do obedience training...she goes nuts for this thing!) ...my worry has been that she will be so focused on it, that suddenly she will find herself in a situation where shes out of her depth / plus it won't help her relax about being out..it will just wind her up more...What do you think?

katej215 wrote:
she always walks well on the way home!!


I call this "getting it done", she's probably not really feeling relaxed - just focused on the job of getting home to the safe place.

do you know, thinking about this, you are bang on here...walking home,she always walks briskly, rarely stops to sniff, and her face is not relaxed, and her ears although not back are kind of flatish and sideways..

A good first step in all this would be to take her to the cafe and when you are done don't say a word, I'm sure she knows what it looks like when you are about to leave. Just step away from the table and wait for her to make the first move

Hmmm, this could be a bit of a nightmare..she seriously never wants to leave, she's always so happy watching the world go by & getting fuss...and given a choice, she'd be round the other side of the counter hanging out with the nice lady that makes the sandwiches ! Honestly, I think I could be standing there for an hour...it could get really embarrassing!!

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. Why not just take shorter walks, and somewhere that your dog likes?

[katej215]

MBF...I live in an area where if you are on foot you either have to cross a busy high street or if I walk the other direction cross a busy road with heavy traffic. Most of the roads here are quiet, but you cannot avoid the busy few to get anywhere. The only no stress option is when we drive my dog somewhere...unfortunately at the moment this is only an option when my husband is around...so i take advantage of getting a lift with him in the mornings some days. Plus we have some fantastic dog walking options where i live that Hattie loves when she finally get there, I cannot imagine resigning ourselves to pavements and one horrible little park (full of rude dogs which never get walked anywhere!!), which would actually be just as stressful

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. It would be unfortunate if you like your walk less, but what about the dog? If your dog becomes tense/unhappy at 300 metres (for example) from home, plan to stop at 200 metres and head for home, so that it learns (or relearns) that walks are always fun. If it's comfortable/happy walking close to home, slowly day by day increase the distance.

Activities (at home and/or away) like physical and mental exercise/s, play, games, training, etc. are good to run down your dog's 'batteries', in addition to walks.

I'd strongly recommend taking a basic obedience (or similar) training course that uses Positive Reinforcement meathods, to learn to build up two-way communication with your dog.

It's a generalisation to say but dogs like structure and routine in their lives, and should not have to be making random decisions that the owner should be making as a matter of course. Having said that if you want the dog to have choices, take cues from the dog about what it likes. Give it choices of things that it likes, and not ones that make it stressed.

[WufWuf]

should not have to be making random decisions that the owner should be making as a matter of course.

I'm going to address this first as I am aware that what I'm recommending goes against the vast majoirty of opinion of what dogs need. I will also mention that I'm a cross over trainer.

Like humans all dogs are different and while some do very well with never having to make a decision for themselves I believe that for some dogs it is an incredible tool for helping them deal with the world. Of course we shouldn't let them choose to do dangerous things and that's when we step up and guide them in the right direction. Giving a low confidence dog who is not a bidable breed (or individual) the chance to think instead of just follow changes their perception of the world from something that is completely out of their control and scary, to something they can have a say in and therefore feel as if they have some control over what happens to them.

This method of working with a dog does take an ability to read and understand your dog but I have every faith that Kate and Hattie will do just fine .

I can also say this from personal experience, I just came back from a delightful walk with my own girl (who had previously reached a level of fear that resulted in her lying down on her side in complete terror unable to move ) We went to the shops and sauntered back home on busy roads, the only thing anyone would have noticed to set her apart from other dogs is that we waited a little distance from the bin truck (garbage truck) while it stopped to do a pick up. She got to choose how close we got to the truck when it stopped and if it had of been there for any longer I would have let her choose which way she wanted to go to avoid it as she knew the objective was "home". Her reward is a yummy lamb neck as we went to the butchers too .

I guess there was a degree of fear in my head that letting her make her own decisions might set a behaviour of her only ever wanting to walk in the direction she wants to go! I general terms she's always seems so clear about what SHE wants to do...and although I love this trait so much, (it makes me smile just thinking about it, she's such a strong character, she's hilarious) I guess if I'm honest I have an under lying twinge that this is somehow something i need to discourage..

Once you've firmly established in her head that she can make choices you will then have to show her that sometimes you know things she doesn't So you might need to persuade her to just turn a corner and low and behold there's something AMAZING around the (scaryish) corner (set up a favourite person with a full bowl of the best thing she could imagine for dinner or someting else awesome, you know her best). Then straight home. You could also use the times where you do a walk somewhere she likes to teach her that going your way is a good idea - come back to me if you need some ideas for that.

I do have a 'secret weapon' that I've refrained from using (a squeaky furry toy she only ever sees when we do obedience training...she goes nuts for this thing!) ...my worry has been that she will be so focused on it, that suddenly she will find herself in a situation where shes out of her depth / plus it won't help her relax about being out..it will just wind her up more...What do you think?

Great instincts Never "trick" her into getting out of her depth.

Hmmm, this could be a bit of a nightmare..she seriously never wants to leave, she's always so happy watching the world go by & getting fuss...and given a choice, she'd be round the other side of the counter hanging out with the nice lady that makes the sandwiches ! Honestly, I think I could be standing there for an hour...it could get really embarrassing!!

Yup prepare for lots and lots of very embarrassing times on the up side you will come out of it with a much thicker skin, I've had all sorts said to me, mostly bad but I did inspire a daddy to be more patient with his kids after watching me with Honey girl . I won't use the language I'd like to but seriously forget them all, I've no time for judgy judgersons, if they don't "get it" that's their problem, your dog is far more important than their opinion.

It will get better, but you will learn where every ounce of your patience is stored try not to walk her when you have any pressure to be anywhere by a specific time and if you do have to, allow yourself at least 30 mins longer than you think you will need.

Sorry again if this is messy I'm supposed to be napping right now but I wanted to get this done before I did.

[JudyN]

A lot of our shorter on-lead walks now I let Jasper make the decisions, and it's great because he knows he can tell me where he wants to go. But we've reached a good point where if he won't go the way I want, I just turn my back on him and wait, and he now understands that that's a sign that I'm pulling rank, and follows me as he knows the only other option is a long boring wait But I don't do that if he's worried about the way I want to go, only if he's decided he'd prefer another route and I'm not prepared to go there for whatever reason. I know now that if he really digs his heels in, there's a good reason.

There are times when I ask him where we should go and he looks a bit confused - then i step in quickly and make the decision for him as I don't want him thinking that I'm lost too