How do we stop excitable wee?!

Share your favorite training tips, ideas and methods with other Positively members!

Moderators:emmabeth, BoardHost

Post Reply
Perx
Posts:2
Joined:Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:42 am
How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by Perx » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:53 pm

How do I stop excitable wee?!
by Perx » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:52 am
Hi, I hope someone can help! My friends adorable border terrier has a wee issue! When excited he wees, we now know not to use a high excited voice when we greet him, and not to get him over excited, but we thought he would grow out if it, but he is now 2 and he still does it. I feel bad for my friends as it stops them doing things with him or taking him places as it really does fly everywhere and over people! Please can anyone help? X
Perx

Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:42 am
Top

jacksdad
Posts:4887
Joined:Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by jacksdad » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:41 pm

have they ruled out medical issues?

I would make sure there isn't an underlying medical issue first and foremost.

I would also take closer look at how people interact with him and how he reacts. this could be excitement, it could be stress/fear, it could be a mix.

I would strongly suggest that you encourage your friends to have as complete a vet check as possible, look for typical/obvious as well as long shots since this has been going on. once that is checked off, maybe see if they would be willing to sign up here and chat directly with us.

ScarletSci
Posts:463
Joined:Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by ScarletSci » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:08 pm

I'd be more inclined to think it's a fearful/submissive response, since he's still doing it at two years old. We could help a lot more if we had more information, without details about the dogs usual routine, interactions, health checks, when this tends to happen and how his owners respond when it does.. there isn't much we can add I don't think.

Whether or not it's excitement or fear/stress, we'd need more specifics regarding his routine and his behaviour in order to give suggestions about what may be going wrong, and how to build his confidence or reduce his overexcitment.

However with some more details, the more the better, the better placed we will be to advise.

teifert1
Posts:4
Joined:Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by teifert1 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:37 pm

My dog also has this problem. She is 5 to 6 years old and medical issues have been ruled out. When i first got her 4 years ago she was 2 years old already. She peed everywhere! So i took her the vet right away. The vet could not find anything wrong or nothing she could see anyway. NO medical issues she goes for her routine checkups and is otherwise healthy. I am a dog professional also. I am a dog groomer and have tried to learn as much as i can about dogs and dog behavior. I have led some training classes and have also trained my dog. When i got her she was a behavioral mess and now she is behaviorally perfect (for me). She is so good i take her everywhere. I work at a pet retail store and the trainer there is wanting to use her as a demonstration dog. This dog is not a neglected dog nor am i a clueless owner. I have done EVERYTHING i feel like i can for my dog. I am at my witt's end. So i can totally understand yours and your friends pain with thier peeing dog.

That being said, I feel like i have done everything i can and that being said i don't feel like i can go 5 or 6 more years dealing with this problem. It makes having a great well-behaved dog as much of a nightmare as it is a pleasure. I have even thought about adotion but then if i cant deal with this who can? If anyone has advice for both of us on this thread it old be greatly appreciated, I have consulted veterinarians, and dog behaviorists and they keep saying the same unhelpful things. I already know that i should ignore tha dog and that she should get excersize and the opportunity for mental stimulation and all that jazz but i swear all my dog has to do is look at me and she will pee all over.

I have enclosed a youtube link. This shows video of my dog after i arrive home from work. i have a service dog licsence for her so she can go lots of places but im a dog groomer and other dogs get distracted by her so i leave her at home when i go to work. other than that she goes lots of places, her food is given in puzzles and kongs. in this video you can see that i let her out of the bathroom straight through the front door. If anything stands in her way she wont make it outside. for the video's sake i let her re enter the house before she is done peeing. You can see she runs out, she goes down unfenced and unleashed she urinates in the yard, she has time to calm down and she comes back up and starts peeing all over again. there is a slight moment of submission, then excitement the whole time she is running around the house wagging her tail, she is peeing. some behaviorists miss this part and they say they cant see any posturing but there is a subtle posture i can see and it looks like flagging. like when a ***** is ready to accept a male. Body is curved, tail is up and wagging, please excuse the house mess, i was in the middle of moving out so everything is in bags and boxes. I have moved an apartment that has an even worse set up for letting her out. You can see by the other videos, i have used positive reinforcement to train a fish to do a couple of tricks ( the fish died before i could teach him more sadly). maybe by seeing this video it will help the person who started this thread as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3XozAerSsI

teifert1
Posts:4
Joined:Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by teifert1 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:42 pm

Just to add, even though my dog is well trained, i do not issue any commands during this time when i come home. I have tried but she isnt even herself. If i were to speak to her she would lose her mind with excitement. I don't even know what to do or where to begin anymore. Other trainers have also given up. I have been working on getting her to go to bed when a doorbell rings but she pees as soon as she is released from the bed. During other times, she is low energy and likes to go for walks or jogs but usually lies around the house in a quiet way.

ScarletSci
Posts:463
Joined:Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by ScarletSci » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:55 pm

Hopefully others with more experience will be along soon to help, but to me, she doesn't look excited, she looks nervous. She doesn't look confident or happy in my opinion, she looks as though she's trying to avoid, and she's submissively crouching.

Could you give us a full rundown of a typical day for her? It also looks as though you have another dog and a parrot, so details about other people and animals living in your house and her relationships with them would also be helpful. Your last comment confuses me, does this mean she only goes for walks occasionally? About how often? The more details about her normal day to day life and routine the better! But the video is very helpful, so thank you for including that.

User avatar
Wes
Posts:256
Joined:Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by Wes » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:14 am

I believe the video was not the OP's dog, but I do agree, she doesn't look particularly confident.

Also, offtopic, but Teifert1, I hope your dog is a legitimate service dog who performs a task, rather than a dog with a "certification" (of which true service dogs are not required to have and cannot be asked to show) and a vest just so they can go places with their owners. I see too many people passing their dogs off as SDs or ESAs just for those privileges.

teifert1
Posts:4
Joined:Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by teifert1 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:00 am

My dog is indeed a service dog which preforms a vital task to my disability. I have a legitimate prescription for this dog and the other dog was. a retired service dog which my poodle has replaced. The other dog was very old she was 15 and she has since passed away. The parrot lived at my place of business and was brought home before my move for rehoming. Now we live in a new town in a new apartment. It is now my son myself and the poodle only. Typical day for the dog. We wake up around 7am, go for a walk (around 45 min). We come in and chill out for a while I get ready for work. She follows me around or lies down somewhere. I leave for work around 9 am. I usually let her go down to the yard by herself very quickly for a pee before I put her in the bathroom. When I put her in there I put down her puzzle toys and kongs. These have her full ration of food because she would normally eat her food so quickly that she would vomit. My son arrives home at 3pm and walks her. He is 11. I know he doesn't walk her as long as I do but she can relieve herself. She does not do the pee behavior for him. I come home and take her for another walk. Sometimes we all go to a wooded area to walk trails. I have two full days off a week and we do a variety of things. anything from house work to shopping etc. Any time I'm not at work the dog is with me. She only displays this behavior when I leave her alone and come home. No other time. Not even when meeting new people or dogs. Sometimes when people come over. It used to be constant. When I first got her she was like that anytime she was out of a crate. I just diapered her and ignored it and went on with behavior and obedience training. We just have this left over. The behavior hasn't remained through changes in surroundings

teifert1
Posts:4
Joined:Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by teifert1 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:14 am

Sorry the behavior HAS remained through everything. If she is lacking confidence or unsure of herself or upset I wouldn't know what to do to help or change it. I have tried so many thing and have spent lots of time and money and patience. Just don't have any more ideas. I don't know anything about her background though. I got her from a humane society. I know how to train dogs so I adopted her. She was 2 years old and was found running around town. I was called in to volunteer a grooming. She was so matted with urine and feces that no one knew her actual breed. As I cleaned her up I realized she was a poodle. I knew I needed to replace my older service dog and I couldne stop thinking about her so I adopted her a few days later. At first it was a nightmare. She was a mess like she had never been tought anything. Within a couple of years of socializing and taking her everywhere she blossomed into an excellent service dog. This is really the only issue. I keep her in the bathroom because she seems to be sooooo hungry all of the time and will open everything and anything that even resembles a food comntainer she only does this while I'm away as well. Its just safest to keep her in there while I'm gone.

jacksdad
Posts:4887
Joined:Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: How do we stop excitable wee?!

Post by jacksdad » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:33 pm

so, if ignoring her hasn't cause improvement to happen....have you tried the opposite?

how about trying in a safe place where it doesn't matter if she pees or not, giving her some calm attention. It is possible that she is really attached to you, and has some VERY mild separation anxiety from you when your gone. The key being you are gone, not simply being by her self.

IF this is the case, then when you return and then ignore her this could be stressful, confusing etc for her. And since ignoring hasn't been working, try giving her calm attention. you have nothing to loose. Particularly if you can greet her in a safe back yard or front yard where who cares if she pees or not.

when giving attention to be on the safe side, be aware of how you are with her. face to face, leaning over etc, be super aware of any of the typical things we do that cause dogs stress in a social interaction and try and avoid those that seem to affect her. they might be subtle signals so video taping might help see if this could be a contributing factor.

So, in summery....

go ahead and greet and interact calmly outside
let her come to you and initiate the interactions
be aware of hands over head, or other places that might cause stress/discomfort
maybe try the 3 second rule of touch...she initiates, you pet in safe places for 3 seconds, stop see what happens.
maybe even go for a 5 or 10 minute walk after greeting, really let her have a chance to empty out as well as spend some time with her

do you do any training other than sit, down, come type stuff? do you train any silly tricks, play games like 101 things to do with a box or hang out with her while she works through a puzzle toy? maybe do some simple nose work/sent based games like hid a 4 to 6 pieces of food for her to sniff out and find? all these things can build confidence and provide low pressure time together.

while my dog never pee'd when I got home, he used to be VERY manic and over the top. it would go on for sometimes as much as 30 minutes, the noises, the running around, jumping on me, bouncing off the couch etc. The standard advice, wait for calm and/or ignore till calm. well, in my dogs case, that only made things worse. Now, he gets immediate attention when I come through the door, but calm attention. I redirected his energy to a toy rather than have him jumping on me and/or all over the place, now he self redirects. I can even in the middle of all the excitement ask him "what do you do" and he knows to either give me a sit or a down or something other than jumping, and soon as he does the "love fest" is on...but calmly. His greetings are now MUCH calmer. he IS excited when we get home, he still jumps a bit on us, BUT nothing like it used to be and with in 5 minuets or less he is back to laying around on the couch. basically he is now behaving "normal" verse over the top and manic. He also had some mild SA, and it was only related to me being out of sight.

Post Reply