Can playing ball stress my dog out?

[jodieohdoh]

Hi everyone,

WHile I've largely just accepted that sometimes my dog may react aggressively to another dog and try to manage it by keeping away from other dogs, I'm still looking for possible explanations as to what leads him up to that behaviour. Why some dogs and not others? Why not with a particular dog one day, but then he doesn't like that same one the next? He also is still marking in the house, which actually I don't find a huge problem in the practical sense; he wees, I clean it up. No big deal. BUt the fact that he may be doing it because he's not happy in some way, that's a problem for me.

So I read an article online the other day which piqued my interest and I'd dearly love to know what the good people on here think about it: http://alphadogbehaviour.blogspot.co.uk ... rcise.html

The part which interested me most was his theory that "exercise obsession" can cause stress in a dog:

Obsessive exercise? What's that? It's when the dog changes from seeing a ball (for example) as a really enjoyable means to play, to it then not being able to drop it, pushing it into you in the home, and never being able to relax. This may then connect back (believe it or not) to other areas of concern such as dog to dog aggression due to the dog's general level of stress. This is remember all in my experience and opinion. All play items should be either left outside in an enclosed area or shed/car. The house should be a place to relax...for you and the dog

I'm not jumping to any conclusions here but am looking for any and every way I can make life easier and happier for my little dog. He is a typical sheepdog type in that when the ball is around, everything else disappears. The only funner (i.e. more arousing) thing than the ball so far is chasing bunnies.

Anyways, I'm just interested to hear what you think.

THanks,

Jo

[rachel540]

Hi! My dog isn't aggressive in any way but gets very stressed out and i have recently realised thanks to the support on this forum that over stimulation/excitement is closely linked to anxiety. To Pepper her ball is number one to the point where she is stressed out worrying about its whereabouts, or even knowing we are walking towards a part on the field where we usually play ball she shows signs of stress/anxiousness. This stress builds up and effects her behaviour in other ways. We are now trying to keep things calm and low key, no more ball, no more zoomie play sessions and instead increasing mind games and training to tire her mentally during walks and at home.

I also came across this article yesterday: http://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... ood-thing/

[Nettle]

Rachel's article says it well - posted at the same time as my reply .

Some dogs, notably those with a high work ethic, readily become obsessive. Collies could not do their proper job if they were less than obsessive. Twelve hours a day running up and down hills finding and herding sheep, day after day, week after week, in all weathers - takes one helluva working drive.

You can take the dog out of the work but you cannot take the work out of the dog. Why some dogs and not others? Depends on the work they were bred for. Hunting hounds need to hunt, herding dogs need to herd etc ad inf. If we take this type of dog away from the world it was bred into, we need to replace the work. No exceptions - every collie (and several other high-drive breeds) ever bred is a nutter if unfulfilled in its work drive.

But the last thing to replace work with is excitement. Working dogs excel because they have focus. If we whip up excitement it then has nowhere to go except in enhanced focus - obsessiveness. Excitement is physical as well as emotional, because the hormones that affect the mind are physical but we see the result as emotional. Stress hormones (happy stress is still stress) only dissipate through physical movement and true relaxation. It can take days to dispel them.

If we have a naturally excitable breed, then we ideally work hard at giving it work that keeps it calm and focused, such as following scent trails.

Hope that helps.

[mum24dog]

No exceptions - every collie (and several other high-drive breeds) ever bred is a nutter if unfulfilled in its work drive.

As someone surrounded by collies much of the time I have to disagree with that sweeping generalisation.

Firstly, the collie breed may have a label as "high drive" but many are not. The most equable and undemanding dog I know was bred by a top trialler for work but has no desire to do anything but be a pet and be taken for walks.

Even a few working cockers come in couch potato variety.

It's useful to be aware of common breed traits but mistaken to assume that every dog will be a cookie cutter version.

It does those breeds no favours to label them all as potential nutters without exception. They vary in temperament and needs as much as we do and should be treated as individuals.

[mum24dog]

Some dogs, notably those with a high work ethic, readily become obsessive. Collies could not do their proper job if they were less than obsessive. Twelve hours a day running up and down hills finding and herding sheep, day after day, week after week, in all weathers - takes one helluva working drive.

I come back to this - yes some collies are prone to obsessive behaviour but the idea that they are used for long hard working days "week after week" is a popular misconception.

Real working bred collies (as opposed to the many that wouldn't recognise a sheep if it butted them in the bum) should be able to do that if called upon but actually spend much of their time doing very little. A working dog without an off switch is a problem and they have that off switch because they are not dependent on being entertained by humans, whether by ball throwing, mind games or nose work.

Many of the problem behaviours we see are because people have bought into the myth that collies need hours of physical exercise and other stimulation when in truth if you give them that all you get is a fit dog that demands more. Just enough to keep the dog on an even keel should be the aim, with plenty of down time so the dog learns to cope with its own company is the key.

[Nettle]

I speak as I find. I have had a lot to do with border collies too, many of which are working sheep 12 hours a day 7 days a week. Those pet collies that appear quiet and fulfilled are quiet because they are fulfilled (well done those owners). And I agree entirely that a physically fit dog is only half the answer. As you say, they do need other (mental) stimulation and be able to to cope with downtime too.

[Ari_RR]

Hunting hounds need to hunt, herding dogs need to herd etc ad inf. If we take this type of dog away from the world it was bred into, we need to replace the work.

I wonder if an hour of trotting through the trails with the nose glued to the ground (I think following some scents) is sufficient daily replacement for a hound who never hunts anything, never tracks lions, and only chases deer very very rarely.. ??

[JudyN]

[quote="Ari_RR"I wonder if an hour of trotting through the trails with the nose glued to the ground (I think following some scents) is sufficient daily replacement for a hound who never hunts anything, never tracks lions, and only chases deer very very rarely.. ??[/quote]

In my opinion (just based on my limited experience, so I may be overruled ), it's the hunt in the broader sense that is important, not the culmination - the run, and catching the prey. So a hunting dog can have an awesome time just following rabbit trails, scanning the horizon, and sniffing the air, he can return home feeling just as happy and fulfilled even if he hasn't caught anything. It's the 'thrill of the chase' even if there isn't any actual chasing involved.

[Nettle]

Yep, I'd agree with that and as Ari seems a very chilled chap at home, that's evidently quite enough for him.

It is probably a long time since any of his ancestors hunted though if he were, for instance, a foxhound, it would be nowhere near enough. That's why foxhounds aren't suitable as pets, and why the few people who do keep them outside a working environment are very switched-on-aware of their needs and limitations.

Beagles by contrast are split into pet and working types, the pet/show kind being many generations away from the working kind, just like bassets and some other hounds. So while they will still bog off following scent given half a chance, the pet type is nothing near as driven as the working version.

[LeonilCraig]

We can not give our dogs a totally stress free life, nor would we want to. Stress in moderation is not harmful. However, problems with dogs arise when they are subjected to many forms of stress in their every day life, and they are not allowed to recover from it. You may think that you are the only only stressed out on the agility course, but your dog feels to pressure too.

Great resources!

[jodieohdoh]

There's a lot of food for thought here, thanks to all for contributing.

If we have a naturally excitable breed, then we ideally work hard at giving it work that keeps it calm and focused, such as following scent trails.

I was wondering if anyone can explain how exactly scent trails would work? Is that something you would set up, say, in the garden, or is it literally just going out into the countryside and off he goes? Does anyone have any other ideas for activities of this ilk that would keep him exercised and busy but not strung out?

Jo

[rachel540]

Are scent trails like playing Hide and seek? If so it's easy! Hide toys around the house and ask the dog to find them. We have named our toys (Jeff the giraffe, rabbit, ratty, ball, etc) and taught Pepper the names, it's fun to hide a few toys and ask for them in different orders. We also hide treats and leave her to it to find those.

Outside when playing fetch we often throw the toys into leaves/long grass or we ask for a sit and stay while we throw the toy and ask her to find it. Frisbees are good because they're flat and go off in odd directions (or that could be my bad throwing). Pepper is a Labrador so she has a strong scent drive and really locks into hunting mode, it's fascinating to watch.

In the countryside she just heads off to chase whatever she's found, but we take her places we know it's safe for her to do that.

There are also Tracking workshops/training classes. I'm not sure where you live but that's in UK.

[Kenisya]

I do a little scent work with my GSDs for fun. Her litter was bred as police dogs but she came to me as a pet because she was the runt and didn't have the "confidence" they were looking for. She was a bit of a bored terror as a pup so I decided to start giving her "jobs" and this was one of them. It is actually pretty easy to teach. You just need some flags or something to mark the trail with, some super stinky shoes, a long line if your dog is not off leash trained and LOTS of treats you will want 2 types a very high value and a low value. I usually just use her food for the low value so she doesn't end up sick to her tummy from having too many treats and it makes her feel fulfilled because she is working for a "meal". Then I use some juicy ham or chicken as the high value.

1st find a place with little foot traffic. You will never be able to find a scentless area but one that is relatively unused will work. You just don't want him to be too distracted by too many scents when he is starting to learn.

Put one stinky shoe down next to the flag at the beginning of the trail

Then drop a piece of food and step on it and lightly agitate the ground a bit with your foot on the food. This will put your scent on it.

Do this every step and walk toe to heel all the way to your end point placing a flag every 3-5 steps.

Once you reach the end point place the other stinky shoe and fill it with ham and food.

The jump as far as you can away from the trail and go get your dog who should not have seen any of this transpire. It would probably help to bring another person to help and hold him out of sight while you lay the trail.

Take him to to start flag pick up the stinky shoe and have him sniff it when he doe click and give him a piece of food. Then use another piece of food lure him over to the first piece of food on the trail and drop it. he will likely eat both then begin sniffing around this is where his mind really gets to start to work. He will likely sniff every which direction until he finds the next piece. Let him make mistakes and go off the trail a little side to side because that will teach him that there is no food near the other smells but there is food near this specific trail. If he gets too far off though you can lure him back with another piece of food and drop it on the trail try to stay pretty hands off though so he can feel the success of figuring it out on his own. Soon he will reach the end where the smell is really strong and guess what? There is a REALLY yummy treat there too! This will motivate him to keep trying and want to get to the end in the future because he knows if he persists there is something great at the end!

Go to a different part of the field every time you lay a new trail to ensure your old one doesn't confuse him and as he starts to get better start putting a treat every other steps, then every 3 steps, then every 4 steps and so on until he can just follow the trail.

You can also start turns during this process as well make sure you wait until he is comfortable and confident in a straight line though. I teach turns by placing food all the way around the turn pretty close together at first to help them understand that the trails are starting to change direction and as before put less and less as they become more confident with it.

In the beginning you should lay the trail every time but once he really understands it and the turns you can have other people start laying them too to keep it interesting just make sure to bring some stinky objects.

You can also later on teach him to notify you of "dropped" objects on the trail for added difficulty.

I hope this helps you guys get started! I'm not always the best at explaining so if anything seems confusing or you need a more in depth description on anything just ask.

I also do agility with her and she does lots of things around the house like put clothes in laundry baskets, shut doors, pull laundry baskets, etc... and that has really helped keep her mind happy and me sane. I am currently working with Kavik on learning these things and Zeek will too once he has adjusted to our home more.

[Nettle]

Another way to introduce scent trailing is to start in the garden, using a spray bottle of water that has something super stinky in, like sausage, liver or cheese. Squirt the ground every few steps and put a tiny treat every few squirts with a jackpot of treats at the end of the trail. Then with dog on-leash, say the word you have chosen, e.g. 'track', and you go round the trail together. Start easy and when the dog has got the idea you can make the trail more difficult with squirts less often and the treats fewer. Then you can allow the dog to track off-lead.

Formal tracking suits some breeds and not others. I've tried it and while it is great fun for those dogs that track a certain way, it really isn't as suitable for others. For instance, formal tracking does not allow air-scenting, which all hunting dogs use, or quartering, which spaniels prefer. But this is in UK and it might well be quite different elsewhere.

[DianeLDL]

Scent tracking sounds like it could be a lot of fun. And for a dog who was bred to be a police or military dog, for many scent tracking for drugs or IEDs have been invaluable.

Our chihuahua, though, wouldnt find it too much fun if he even caught on to it. Although, when I put his smelly treat in with his kibble in his treat ball toy, he goes after that like crazy.

No, chis arent scent dogs. But, on the other hand, his hearing is fantastic. He hears dogs barking down the street that we can ot hear until we open the door.

It can be distracting to him, though, when he is outside for potty and sounds distract him from his business.

That is why I got upset while we were at the Navy Lodge in the San Francisco/San Jose area when an man who was standing in the doorway while Sandy was outside for potty, was whistling as one would call a dog. He was disturbing us so I asked him to stop. (Also, I feared he had a dog off leash somewhere, against regulation, which would have put both Sandy and me on alert.)

Turned out he was whistling for his foreign born (3rd world nation) girlfriend or wife to come faster. She was carrying everything while he stood there whistling as if she were a dog.

Anyway, that is probably why the clicker training works well for Sandy. He tunes in on the clicker sound immediately.
Of course, knowing a yummy treat is coming with the clicker also helps.

Diane