Folks,
I know I'm probably being lazy, but I'm not sure how to work around what I see are limits in my ability to train my 1 year old Female Doberman rescue in 'loose leash' walking.
First of all -- how do you get them the true EXERCISE that they need if your only outlet for exercise is vigorous walking, when you are limited to short sessions of loose leash training where they don't really MOVE very much?
She pulls like a cart horse. With my previous rescue (I know, we got lucky), it took a few months of walking him on the leash to get him to realize that he was going to be able to walk only as fast as we did. He pulls to the end of the leash (until it's taut), but then doesn't strain against the leash after that. She, on the other hand (the Dobie) pulls solidly for a full hour, if that's how long we walk her, and always pulls HARD. So she needs to be "trained," where he really didn't.
We have to walk them together. Sometimes, it is only one of me or my husband who are able to walk the dogs, in a day. So, to try to "redlight/greenlight" just the girl really screws up our boy. It can take her 1/2 hour to walk a full block, using this technique. She just doesn't seem to "get" it.
I'm having a problem, here because, if she doesn't stop pulling, my (very stubborn) husband wants to resort to a shock collar, thinking that will "get through" to her.
We've tried (already) the Gentle Leader (we like her to walk in front, so that doesn't work well), a prong, and a Sporn "no pull." None of these work. I'm concerned that, if we buy a front-connect harness, she will also not be able to walk in front, which is where we like her (on some of our trails, it's not wide enough to walk side-by-side).
So I get that it's a good idea to work with her on loose leash just in our yard, without distraction, for short sessions -- but then do I screw it up by taking her out for a 45-60 minute "fast as we are comfortable" walk each evening? And, if so -- how can I exercise her (with him) if that's messing up her training? Please don't suggest chasing a ball or other 'yard play' - it's just not enough!
Add to this the not-too-uncommon problem of one "dog parent" understanding the importance of consistency and understanding, in training, and the other (guess which?) NOT getting that, at all. Yet he insists on walking her, because he thinks he can "force" her into learning, I think... </end of vent>
Thanks for any suggestions...
Cara
Yet another 'loose leash' training question
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
find a trainer.
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
doggiedad wrote:find a trainer.
I'm sure someone will be along with some more useful advice soon, Cara
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
Some days are worse than others for me with my big hound boy, especially now, with all kinds of wild creatures lounging on the lawns where we walk (bunnies, woodchucks, wild turkey.. you name it - it's sunbathing somewhere nearby).
So, what I do sometimes - i take my boy out on his 50 ft leash (attached to harness) and I just let him chase all those creatures.. they are fastert than him, and quickly dive into the bushes where we doesn't go into, instead looking for another pair of ears sticking out of the grass somewhere. In about 10 min or so of "bunny chasing" he starts to loose steam, and then I reel him in, take off the 50 ft leash, put the regular one on, and he is much more content with just trotting next to me for the remaining hour of our walk.
Now, this is obviously not the real solution to trainig loose leash walking.. but perhaps if you can find a way to let her burn some of the energy at the beginning of the walk, the remainder of the walk will be easier on both of you, and the right habbits will start forming... ??
So, what I do sometimes - i take my boy out on his 50 ft leash (attached to harness) and I just let him chase all those creatures.. they are fastert than him, and quickly dive into the bushes where we doesn't go into, instead looking for another pair of ears sticking out of the grass somewhere. In about 10 min or so of "bunny chasing" he starts to loose steam, and then I reel him in, take off the 50 ft leash, put the regular one on, and he is much more content with just trotting next to me for the remaining hour of our walk.
Now, this is obviously not the real solution to trainig loose leash walking.. but perhaps if you can find a way to let her burn some of the energy at the beginning of the walk, the remainder of the walk will be easier on both of you, and the right habbits will start forming... ??
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
I apologise for doggiedad's unhelpful response, he has been warned about this frequently and has now had the 'honour' of becoming the very first person to receive a 2 week suspension!
Back to the problem - although the walks are all training walks and thus short, there is no limit on the NUMBER of these short walks you can do - if you would normally walk your dog for 2 hours a day, you can walk your dog for 10 minutes x 12 per day! Additionally, a 10 minute training walk is much harder mental work than half an hours worth of dragging you around not paying attention, so you should find these walks are actually pretty tiring.
If on top of that you find you need to do more, then you can:
Play games at home
Clicker train
Puzzle solve
Feed from kong toys or similar rather than a bowl
Drive somewhere you can let your dog off leash completely
This should only take you a couple of weeks or so before you can walk, loose leash, to somewhere where your dog can either go off lead, or go on a long line and trail that, so don't panic thinking you will have a crazed dog for months on end, the consistency of NEVER allowing your dog to pull means that the method does tend to work pretty quickly!
Back to the problem - although the walks are all training walks and thus short, there is no limit on the NUMBER of these short walks you can do - if you would normally walk your dog for 2 hours a day, you can walk your dog for 10 minutes x 12 per day! Additionally, a 10 minute training walk is much harder mental work than half an hours worth of dragging you around not paying attention, so you should find these walks are actually pretty tiring.
If on top of that you find you need to do more, then you can:
Play games at home
Clicker train
Puzzle solve
Feed from kong toys or similar rather than a bowl
Drive somewhere you can let your dog off leash completely
This should only take you a couple of weeks or so before you can walk, loose leash, to somewhere where your dog can either go off lead, or go on a long line and trail that, so don't panic thinking you will have a crazed dog for months on end, the consistency of NEVER allowing your dog to pull means that the method does tend to work pretty quickly!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
Your response was very helpful emmabeth. I was going to make a similar thread about Taylor. Do you think it is possible for my 9 year old son to be the primary walker for 16-week-15 kg-and-counting Taylor? I would be with him but this was supposed to be "his" dog and I would be happy if he could have that responsibility. As far as going somewhere off the leash, how critical is this at this point in his development? He has an extremely unreliable recall and I don't know where I could go that I would truly feel safe letting him off leash. Our yard is not fenced and I do let him off but it is a small space and if he runs out of the yard it is always for mischievous purposes, like running to eat compost. He really doesn't have a chance to run and when he starts running in the yard it makes me nervous because it is always a sign of his overtiredness and he goes bananas. Today he ran down the hill and knocked my son flat on his back and then ran up the hill to the compost pile. Every day there's something to address.
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
As long as you are supervising I don't see it being a problem if your son has the responsibility of walking and a lot of training, but obviously you will need to manage things so he can do the more easy bits..
I would sit with him and actually write out training plans for each of the things you need to teach Taylor, and also do the same for any problems you get, so you can sit down and write it out on paper.. say, the running off, it might look like this:
Problem behavior: Running off/not recalling.
When does it happen: When Taylor is off lead and he is tired
Where does it happen: In the yard
Why do we think it happens: Because he is mentally tired/bored of what is currently happening/frustrated with what is currently happening
What is the reward or motivation for the behaviour: (its fun to run and be chased, its great fun to get in the compost and find all the delicious stinky things in there)...
So how do we manage it: Use a long line and harness so he is not truly off lead and therefore not truly out of our control
How do we fix it: Using the long line, re-teach the recall if he has learned to ignore it.
YOu can go through pretty much all training/behaviour issues like that, and lots of people do it on paper (I do for clients as I have to produce a report and a training plan for them to follow), so doing things this way isn't a 'because he is a kid' thing, its actually a really good practice for ANY trainer!
If you want to teach a new behaviour you do a similar thing, but break down the new behavior or trick into stages, and back-chain, so start with the last step, and work you way back, for a trick like retrieving a ball it goes like this:
1/ Take the ball from my hand, drop it back into my hand - (so you would give the dog the ball and have a reward ready to hand so that he wants to let go of it almost immediately, and you hold your hand under his chin so the ball falls back into your hand.
2/ Same as above, now move your hand a little to one side, this time you reward all the ones that go in your hand, and not the ones that don't.
3/ Same as the first two steps, but more distance
4/ Pick the ball up off the floor and put it in my hand - you can reduce the distance to make this easier initially
When you learn to train like this, you can easily identify which steps are causing problems and where you may need to tweak something - so maybe your dog needs to learn to hold the ball for longer, before he can learn to take a step whilst holding the ball in his mouth, so you might change step 2 in my list, for 'reward only the holds of the ball that last for a count of 2 or 3 seconds'. Or maybe your dog doesn't 'get' picking the ball up off th efloor, so your step 4 might be 'offer the ball from your hand from lower down' before you move to the dog picking the ball up from the floor.
I definitely think kids should be involved in training, and working this way its really easy to help them and avoid frustration or confusion for the dog!
I would sit with him and actually write out training plans for each of the things you need to teach Taylor, and also do the same for any problems you get, so you can sit down and write it out on paper.. say, the running off, it might look like this:
Problem behavior: Running off/not recalling.
When does it happen: When Taylor is off lead and he is tired
Where does it happen: In the yard
Why do we think it happens: Because he is mentally tired/bored of what is currently happening/frustrated with what is currently happening
What is the reward or motivation for the behaviour: (its fun to run and be chased, its great fun to get in the compost and find all the delicious stinky things in there)...
So how do we manage it: Use a long line and harness so he is not truly off lead and therefore not truly out of our control
How do we fix it: Using the long line, re-teach the recall if he has learned to ignore it.
YOu can go through pretty much all training/behaviour issues like that, and lots of people do it on paper (I do for clients as I have to produce a report and a training plan for them to follow), so doing things this way isn't a 'because he is a kid' thing, its actually a really good practice for ANY trainer!
If you want to teach a new behaviour you do a similar thing, but break down the new behavior or trick into stages, and back-chain, so start with the last step, and work you way back, for a trick like retrieving a ball it goes like this:
1/ Take the ball from my hand, drop it back into my hand - (so you would give the dog the ball and have a reward ready to hand so that he wants to let go of it almost immediately, and you hold your hand under his chin so the ball falls back into your hand.
2/ Same as above, now move your hand a little to one side, this time you reward all the ones that go in your hand, and not the ones that don't.
3/ Same as the first two steps, but more distance
4/ Pick the ball up off the floor and put it in my hand - you can reduce the distance to make this easier initially
When you learn to train like this, you can easily identify which steps are causing problems and where you may need to tweak something - so maybe your dog needs to learn to hold the ball for longer, before he can learn to take a step whilst holding the ball in his mouth, so you might change step 2 in my list, for 'reward only the holds of the ball that last for a count of 2 or 3 seconds'. Or maybe your dog doesn't 'get' picking the ball up off th efloor, so your step 4 might be 'offer the ball from your hand from lower down' before you move to the dog picking the ball up from the floor.
I definitely think kids should be involved in training, and working this way its really easy to help them and avoid frustration or confusion for the dog!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
Excellent advice and I will get to work on that plan immediately. Great ideas!
Re: Yet another 'loose leash' training question
Thanks for this - it's more of a plan than I've ever seen, anywhere, to date. My biggest problem will be trying to figure out how to train her, but then leave her while I walk my boy (she doesn't like being alone, and has been known to jump the fence so that she can "accompany" us). AND how to find time to do all these sessions with her and still get my boy 30-60 minutes of walk time a day!emmabeth wrote:Back to the problem - although the walks are all training walks and thus short, there is no limit on the NUMBER of these short walks you can do - if you would normally walk your dog for 2 hours a day, you can walk your dog for 10 minutes x 12 per day! Additionally, a 10 minute training walk is much harder mental work than half an hours worth of dragging you around not paying attention, so you should find these walks are actually pretty tiring.
If on top of that you find you need to do more, then you can:
Play games at home
Clicker train
Puzzle solve
Feed from kong toys or similar rather than a bowl
Drive somewhere you can let your dog off leash completely
We do a lot of those other activities, already (though I'm not coordinated enough to "clicker" train, I do give lots of positive 'Good Girl"s! that I hope are a decent substitute for a click.
