dog aggression (out of character)

[andymill]

Was wondering if anyone could advise?

I have an 18 month old german shepherd/lab cross. He is usually a lovely gentle nature, great with people, kids, and other dogs. This morning after taking him for a walk I was getting out of the car. He saw another dog and ran towards it. I called him and went after him but wasn't overly worried because of his nature. But out of the blue he attacked. I got hold of him and dragged him off.

Not sure if its connected but he has just started trying to mount other dogs in the past week and showing sexual interest. I have booked him in to be neutered as was planning to do this anyway and hoping it will prevent this happening again.

Just shocked me as it’s so out of character. The attack happened outside our house so not sure if he thought the dog had been on our land. Although gentle in nature he barks when anyone comes near the house. I've never told him off for this as it keeps the house safe. Once people come in and he knows they are friends he is lovely with them.

We had had him for a year, he was found as a stray before hand. Up until this time never had any issues. In fact I had just been on a walk where he met loads of other dogs and was his usual friendly self.

[ScarletSci]

Hi Andy,

I'm sure that there are people here that can help you, there are a few board regulars who are working with reactive dogs.

To give them the best possible chance of being able to help you, could you include even more detail for us? Give us a break down of a typical day for your dog, when you go for walks, how long those walks are, what food he is on, his usual reactions to seeing dogs, meeting dogs, what training and mental stimulation you do with him, as much as you can think of! Since we can't see your dog and don't know what his daily routine is like, trying to advise over the internet means we need as much detail as possible to give us an idea of what's going on.

[andymill]

Usually take him out first thing in the morning for half an hour after his first fead. Then go to work. My step daughter gets home at midday and I get home about 5pm. I then take him out again for an hour.
He is usually fine with other dogs. Has a sniff and then is on his way. Sometimes he will play and chase them, or vies vera. Usually take a ball and flinger so he has a good run round. Then give him his dinner and he chills with us in the living room.

We go to bed about 11:30 and I give him a dog biscuit.

I feed him on a mixture of dried and tinned. Twice a day.

He is in great shape and an amazing runner and swimmer. Also play in the house with him. he has an activity ball and rope toys. Love tug-of-war and play fighting. (although he is gentle with this)

He has started humping this past week so we were going to get him done anyway. We can't be 100% sure of his age as he was a stray. Last year when we got him the vet thought he was about months, however he only started cocking his leg last June/July so I think he might have been younger.

Like I say up until today he has had no issues. I have been off today and he has seemed fine and his usual self after this happened. In fact he's dropping a hint right now bringing me his ball, so must be walk time!

Thanks for your help.

[JudyN]

My dog, who is neutered, started attacking the very occasional dog out of the blue when he was around two and a half - but he is a slow-maturing breed. There's only a handful of dogs he will be like this with, but I've come to the conclusion that it is younger unneutered males he doesn't like. I think it may just be a case of him feeling that he's grown up and doesn't want these virile youngsters being a threat, but not being mature enough or confident enough to ignore them.

So this may be something similar - but with the info ScarletSci has requested, I'm sure others will have some ideas, and also on whether this is a good time to neuter (neutering can result in a lack of confidence, leading to more fear aggression).

[jacksdad]

I have booked him in to be neutered as was planning to do this anyway and hoping it will prevent this happening again.

It might...BUT it could also make the situation WORSE. My opinion, hold off neutering him a few more months. let him finish maturing. The ONLY thing neutering can promise is no unwanted litters. which is something worth taking into account if you will ultimately be neutering. However you can always neuter tomorrow, but if it was the wrong response to a behavior/training "issue" there is NO taking it back. it's a one way trip.

Right now, at his age he is going to be going through the final maturing/development stages dogs go through. Right now odds are pretty good he isn't be "aggressive", rather he is being a normal "teenager" pushing boundaries, throwing his "weight" around. Some dogs will just take it, others will object. which is what leads to fights.

Your absolute first step is to manage him so that he doesn't get to practice mounting and bullying and being pushy and being rude. if this means you have to temporarily end his dog/dog enter actions, that is what you do.

If he is just going through the final stages for reaching doggie adulthood, it will pass, he will calm down, and by not letting him practice these behaviors he won't learn that they are successful for getting attention and default to them in his dog/dog enter actions and save your self a lot of hard training work to alter rude/bullying behavior. which right now is somewhat normal, but in a few months WILL NOT be and mature adult dog will NOT put up with. neutering now risks "locking" him into this phase.

In addition I would be doing things with him so that you are his "go to" source of fun, activities verse playing with other dogs. if you need ideas in this area we can help.

[andymill]

thanks. thats a big help.

[gwd]

i'm with jacksdad on holding off on the neutering. your boy is not fully mature at 18 months. he can still benefit from the hormones (proper skeletal development).

[Nettle]

Pretty much what the others have said.

Each of his breeds can be bumptious and controlling with other dogs, and it sounds as if he is going through a normal stage but one that needs managing until he has finished being an adolescent. I suspect that he has been working up to this for some time and is now bold enough to push boundaries quite hard. In short, you have a perfectly normal adolescent but of a breed mix that cannot help but be pushy. Well done for all you have achieved so far, and take heart, there does come an end to this! I am another who says hold off the neutering and then he has every chance of getting through this and you still having most of your hair.

He must be strongly controlled in the presence of other dogs because pushing them around will give him a 'hit' of adrenaline and cortisol, which can become addictive. This management isn't for ever but it is for now, and may be needed for some months. Basically, you take charge of any dog interactions and step in and remove him if and preferably just before he starts to throw his weight around. Better to step in too soon than too late. By 'strongly controlled' I don't mean getting heavy with him, but completely dispassionately, and silently if you can, stepping in and physically removing him (taking care there is no risk to yourself from either dog).

Then immediately give him a job to do eg go into a 'sit' and a 'watch me'. Don't let the other dog get near him while you are doing this, and if necessary take him right away first.

There are several worlds of difference between dog/dog aggression and dog/man aggression, so don't think anything more of this except that he is going through an irritating phase and has to be pro-actively managed while in it.

[Ari_RR]

But out of the blue he attacked.

Nope. Not out of the blue. There were signs preceding the attack, even if subtle. In your boy, and in the other dog.
Give yourself a bit of time, and you will be able to see and recognize them, and eventually anticipate. It's an acquired skill, and it starts with paying very close attention to him and everyone and everything around. We all do this... but its even more important (I think) if you have a large male, ready to start pushing boundaries with other dogs.

So, I am with the folks who posted above - hold off on neutering, manage him and the environment, avoid the situations where he may react this way... This phase will be over in time, and if you last - you will end up with a well developed, well balanced, confident dog.

[gwd]

It's an acquired skill,

it really is isn't it. you get really good at figuring which dogs are going to have a problem with your boy and which dogs your boy is going to think needs to be put in it's place.

[msminnamouse]

If your dog does anything out of the ordinary, then it's always a good idea to get a vet check just in case there's a potential medical problem at hand.

Although it's likely what Jack's dad said, a bratty teenager pushing the limits.

I agree with holding off for him to fully sexually mature until you neuter him IF you can be 100% sure that he won't cause any unwanted pregnancies. (I work in rescue so I'm heavily biased in my opinion in sterilizing dogs.)

However, I don't think you should cut off his dog interactions. I think you should continue to work him AT A DISTANCE and reward acceptable, calm, non-reactive interest. I would ask people in advance to set up these training exercises so you don't have them approaching with intent to let the dogs intermingle.

I'd walk the dogs at separate sides of a street and also practice just standing still, since sometimes motion can mask reactions (some dogs aren't likely to react if they're moving so the moving can mask reactions). I'd look into the LAT game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdraNF2hcgA.

And if he reacts, take him even further away from the other dog and work on getting them back to the original distance. But never closer than several feet.

If you can, I'd put him in a harness for his comfort in case he does lunge. But since he's likely a big dog, I'd either attach a leash to his collar and his harness, or just use a front attach harness so his forward momentum swings him around rather than pulling you along into a bad situation. The reason for a harness is that it's less likely to cause leash reactivity. I see leash reactivity often with dogs wearing shock, prong and choke collars and/or who receive leash corrections. Because the dog associates the punishment from these things with what they're looking at or near when it happens.

[andymill]

Thanks everyone for your great help. I have been out with him since and each time he is back to his old friendly self with other dogs and people. I think like you said it is a mixture of teenage anger and the fact it was outside our house. He has a strong guarding instinct.

Have postponed the chop for now and am keeping tight hold of him outside the house.

I have noticed him taking a lot more interest in other dogs naughty bits when sniffing and when playing he puts his chin on other dogs backs which I'm guessing is a dominating act.

I've had dogs in the past (mainly labs) but they have all been bitches. He is the first male so this is a little new to me.

The teenage comparison seems to make sense though. Rebel With All His Paws (sorry, awful joke).

Thanks again though for all your support, tips, and reassurance. Really means a lot.

[Ari_RR]

when playing he puts his chin on other dogs backs which I'm guessing is a dominating act.

I would try not to let him do this.
On one hand, it's just rude towards other dogs, makes them uncomfortable... You don't want your boy to be a bully. (Mine was, and used to do the same thing to other dogs. Not fun.)
On the other hand, he will sooner or later do this to a wrong dog, and may get hurt. He is not a puppy anymore, so others will see him as a big, bad dog with a nasty attitude, and rest assured - there are bigger, badder ones out there, with even nastier attitude, short fuse and teeth like crocodile...

I think best is to teach good manners, and discourage bad ones. Habbits form quickly.

Good decision on holding off on neutering!

[msminnamouse]

Mounting is usually due to over stimulation, so that may be what you're looking at when he puts his chin on other dog's backs. A lot of people have different opinions on this but I don't allow this, particularly not with strange dogs because it's considered "rude" and a lot of dogs get royally pissed off due to it, also because you don't know what dogs have back or joint or leg problems and being jumped on could be painful. I wonder if some of the problems you're looking at may be due to insecurity on his part. I wonder at what his body language when these things are going on.

Has he been in any fights? If he has, it could be that he's awkward and "rude" and dogs have taken exception to this and as a result, he became defensive and now, he's offensive. Kind of like putting on a tough guy act rather than appear weak and vulnerable when he's unsure.

[jacksdad]

I have noticed him taking a lot more interest in other dogs naughty bits when sniffing ....

normal behavior as far as I have observed. some dogs really seem to want to spend a lot of time sniffing other dogs genital area, other dogs take a quick whiff and move on.

.... and when playing he puts his chin on other dogs backs which I'm guessing is a dominating act.

I am not so sure it's a "dominating" act verse a "I just discovered I am big, and strong and almost grown up and full of my self, what you going to do about it act". I agree that you should try and prevent this. This, plus humping is a two things that will trigger my dog to offensive (on the attack) aggression. Not so much anymore now that I step in and deal with the other dog for him, but if I miss it or are not quick enough his terrier side will come out and it won't matter how large or small the other dog is, he will go offensive.

The teenage comparison seems to make sense though. Rebel With All His Paws (sorry, awful joke).

I think that will pretty much sum it up for a lot of what he will be doing/trying over the next few weeks/hand full of months. Oh and I thought it was a funny joke...but I have a odd sense of humor sometimes.

when you get some time, if you feel inclined, you might want to read up on some of Ari_RR past posts. Ari's been where you are at now.