Drop it - pretty please

[rachel540]

So im at the end of my tether....when out playing pepper wont drop her toys. She does it no problem in the house, will drop and take a treat and be eager to go fetch again. Outside however she just wont do it, ive got two identical toys to swap with her but she just wont do it or even take a treat. I think i must have intimidated her somehow ( im not sure how, i havent shouted and often just walk on after a couple of tries but she may have sensed my annoyance) she turns her head away from me and cowers or dodges me if i get close or try to stroke her. I have tried stepping away from her and giving her plenty of space, ive tried kneeing down at a distance giving the command and turning my head and just waiting. I try not to stare at her and let her do it in her own time and on the odd occasion she does i give her lots of praise and silliness and throw her other toy. She attempts to drop it sometimes but just cant bring herself to do it and her bottom jaw chatters. I havent been consistent because i cant figure out what i need to do so i know that hasnt helped. Please any advice would be great. She loves running, chasing and hunting down her toys but just cant being herself to give them back.

[JudyN]

I've been mulling this one over, given the problems I have getting stolen balls off Jasper...

What happens if you don't ask her to drop what she has, but throw another ball for her to chase, making no attempt to exchange it for the one she has? Dogs (at least mine ) can be very sensitive to when you want something they have, and I'm wondering if it might be better to avoid trying to get her to drop something for now but introducing games where she chooses to drop what she has purely because something even more enticing has just whizzed past her, just asking to be chased. But first she has to think that you don't have an ulterior motive of getting her ball off her. That might even mean stocking up on some cheap tennis balls and not worrying if they don't come home with you again.

This is a bit of a 'cop-out' option - hopefully others will have some more proactive ideas!

[rachel540]

Hi judy thanks for the reply. I think you're right, the problem is that shes quite sensitive to me taking what she has. The toy im using is a ring, when i throw the second one she just collects them in her mouth Its the same with sticks etc she can usually fit about 3 in her mouth, with tennis balls she runs to it and pounces, tries to protect it if you come near and will just chase whatever you throw but wont drop what she has. Shes a nutter! I wouldnt usually be bothered and shes quite happy running around exploring on our walks but now its dark when i get home from work a walk around the streets just isnt good enough i want her to have a run around, the last couple of nights ive been stood under a street light next to the field trying to play fetch

[WufWuf]

I'd be thinking along the same lines as Judy.

I think you need to stop trying to get her to drop as she's feeling too much pressure and it's make her want to hang onto what she's got for dear life.

I'd buy a tonne of cheapy cheap toys like pound shop tennis balls, homemade tug toys (cut up old jeans, sweatshirts, towels, blankets etc and you can just plait them into a basic tuggy), charity shop teddys are great too.

Take a bag full of toys out with you and as soon as you throw one toy it is dead to you (as long as Pepper is around). DO NOT pick this up at any point even if she drops it. Take another toy out of your bag and act like it's the best most amazing toy in the world and you're not really sure you want to share it - Don't offer it to her just throw it between your hands and act like it's THE BEST FUN EVER. When Pepper looks interested throw it for her (again don't offer it just fling it away). She should at least go and have a sniff - remember it's now dead to you and the toy you've just taken out of your magic bag is now the BEST THING IN THE WORLD. Do this just a few times and then go home or do some training with her but do not give her any more toys or ask her for anything she has in her mouth. You can go back without Pepper and collect as many of the toys as you can find and think of the lost ones as gifts for the dogs in your neighbourhood.

What I'm trying to create is the idea that when you have a toy it's AMAZING but once you don't have it it's boring. I had a similer but different problem with Honey and this is an adapted version of what I did with her.

You won't need to do this forever and of course you do want to be able to pick up the toys eventually you just need to change her mindset a little and then you can work with that.

If you do end up trying this method could you let me know how you're getting on and what Pepper thinks of it all and I can try and help you with the next step depending on how Pepper reacts?

[rachel540]

This is fantastic! Thank you i will raid the poundshop tomorrow for as many balls n toys i can carry. I must admit it was the frustration that she seemed so worried and i didnt no what i'd done or how to fix it that i was more concerned about. I need to get that trust back and the fun back into our walks. I will keep you posted. Not sure what im going to do tonite, obviously forget fetch, maybe a longer neighbourhood walk and i'll tire her out at home. Feeling much better with a plan in mind, cant wait to try it tomorrow

[JudyN]

Jasper has always been OK at dropping one ball to chase another, but getting them both back can be tricky. He's much more accepting of the game ending now (aminly because he hasn't got much stamina and gets tired!), but a frequent trick is carrying the ball with him to the stream, lying down in the stream to cool down, then letting go of the ball... which drifts away on the current, never to be seen again But even at £2 for a ball on rope (as he needs something he can pick up while muzzled), I just tell myself that many people think nothing of spending that on a coffee every day.

[rachel540]

Hi there! So we have tried your advice and it was great fun! Pepper loved that i had so many toys. I didnt ask or tell her to do anything, we both ran about like loons, balls flying everywhere as i threw them she ran for it sometimes dropping what she had sometimes not, as soon as she saw my next toy she was ready to launch again, etc. i moved round the field collecting any i came across while she was chasing what i'd just thrown so there was no pressure to drop anything. There was a point when my bag was empty and she ran back to me without a toy so we played "find it!" for a little while, once she found the first and picked it up i gave her a big fuss and told her to find some more, she'd jump about when she found another, sometimes swapped what she had in her mouth but I gave her lots of praise and started the game again. It was actually much more fun than just playing fetch. She drops things she shudnt have at home but i think i put too much pressure on her while we were playing, this game was much better it would be useful though if she knew to drop toys, especially when shes taken them from another dog in the park.

[JudyN]

it would be useful though if she knew to drop toys, especially when shes taken them from another dog in the park.

Oh tell me about it - I carry an 'emergency ball' and a fiver at all times, but you can bet the ball Jasper nicks will be the other dog's 'special ball' and completely irreplacable But if you manage the issue for now, and make sure that the games are fun, you'll find you can sneak the odd exchange in more and more without Pepper feeling at all challenged, and it will get easier and easier to retrieve the other dog's ball, and return home with at least 50% of the ones you left home with

[GundogGuy]

This is brilliant... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndTiVOCNY4M although for some stupid reason my laptop won't play youtube vids tonight!

[lucyandbella]

GundogGuy, I love this idea! My dogs are fine with "let go" for toys and when we play tug, but they will never drop an object I don’t want them to have (like cat poop they find on walks). I think I'm going to teach "drop" with something high value as an emergency "let go".

[Nettle]

Thank you Gundogguy - this is a really good demo to watch.

[WufWuf]

I'm so glad you had a fun time, that was the aim As I said I had a similar problem with Honey but it was more terrier - "I have a toy why would I want another one?".

It sounds like you did great and Judy's advice was pretty much what I was thinking as the next step. If I could give you one more piece of advice it would be - go slow with that next step. You don't want Pepper to think you have any REAL interest in the toys once YOU don't have them. It will be harder to convince her twice that the "other"thing is better than what she already has. By other thing I mean food OR toy (or random gross thing she has).

The method in the video might work for Pepper but wouldn't work for Honey as I had to build up the toy drive in her - when she came to me although she was VERY playful she did not know what toys were. She knows an I'm dropping food command "are you ready" but if I did this in the early days of training all she would be interested in would be the food and she would avoid the toys. She will now bring toys to me if she knows I have something very tasty and sometimes she gets a treat, sometimes it's another toy thrown depending on how aroused she is. If she's super playful I'll throw a toy, if she's clearly bringing it back for the reward I'll give her something tasty and throw the toy again. I try and keep all toy sessions brief so that she's always left wanting more.

Keep us updated and I'm sure you'll get there

[Nettle]

The video method wouldn't work for my dogs either but would work for quite a few. Mine are not foodie, play or toy oriented, so I use the 'swap' method of training them to give me what they have.

Rachel, sounds as if you are on to a method that will work for your dog well done!

[ClareMarsh]

I've just posted this in the funnies thread too but here's an alternative approach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLYMD6R6PvU&feature=fvwp

[rachel540]

Hi! Sorry I haven't updated for awhile its been hectic with work and decorating. I've finally got a quiet afternoon manning the drop-in centre. Ok so progress so far....Pepper is loving Mummy having soooo many toys and can't wait for our walks which is just lovely in itself, we're having loads of fun and she is exhausted after running around like a loon!

There is a definite favourite with the squeaky toys, she tends to keep those in her mouth and run and chase whatever I throw nudge it and come back to me, I'll throw another in the opposite direction and she'll do the same, or sometimes I ask her to "show me" and she takes me to the toy, does a little dance and I'll throw another from my bag. I'm trying to avoid her seeing me pick up or take any of her toys away, everything I throw magically appears Today she dropped a toy twice, I didn't ask her to (I haven't asked her to drop anything since we started this and told my OH not to say "drop it" anymore) I just made a bigger fuss and threw the next toy. Am I doing it right?

I'm actually not too bothered now about playing fetch, compared to this its quite a boring game, this has us both running around being silly and she just loves it, I think there is still a feeling of being challenged, sometimes when its time to put the lead on I can tell she thinks I'm going to take her toy but as soon as she sees the lead she drops it, so I tried getting the lead out before approaching her today and she wasn't as suspicious but turned her head before dropping the ball. Once on lead I ask her if shes going to get her ball (she knows what I mean ) and sometimes she'll carry it other times shes more interested in where we're going next. I'll post a pic from this morning.